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Here is a picture of Sweetney skying over the rim
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BRIGGS
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5/4/2003  2:39 PM
This guy is a *SKILL* player who is extremely powerful around the rim and plays much bigger than 6-8. NO ONE could stop him in college---he faced double and triple teams every single night---he AVERAGED 23 points 10.5 rebounds and 3.5 blocks while shooting 56%. This guy has what the Knicks dont have POWER--the ability to go through other players with force. The ability to force his will on post moves and has the Ben wallace type of wingspan and power on defense. I mean a lot ofpeole are missing the FACT that the guy is top 10 in SHOTBLOCKING in the NCAA in the BE.

http://www.guhoyas.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/040103aaa_1.html

Look how high this guy is off the ground--powering a dunk through someone else. This is a serious player. This is a true POTENTIAL franchise type player at the 4 who will give you effeciency and maximumefort on both ends.
RIP Crushalot😞
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Swishfm3
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5/4/2003  5:25 PM
He was so great he led his team to the NIT.....

I compare Sweetney to Sam Clancy...same body and same type of game.

Where is Sam CLancy again???
Caseloads
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5/4/2003  5:29 PM
Posted by Swishfm3:

He was so great he led his team to the NIT.....

I compare Sweetney to Sam Clancy...same body and same type of game.

Where is Sam CLancy again???
exactly. furthermore, sweetney does not have hops.
Swishfm3
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5/4/2003  5:44 PM
Dude...he barely has the ball over the rim...u call that hops?
BRIGGS
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5/4/2003  6:36 PM
Sweetney had over 100 blocks 3.5 per game + 2 steals per game to go along with 23 points and 10.5 rebounds while being double teamed and triple teamed every night. He's not a super run jump athlete like an Amare Stoudemire but rather has explosion from his powerful torso like Brand with long arms. Just for comparison sakes here is the stats for othella harrington while he was a junior at Gtown and sweetney

othella 14.7 points 8 rebounds 1.5 blocks 0.7 steals

Sweetney 23 points 10.5 rebounds 3.5 blocks 2 steals


We don't have 1 powerful young athlete with skills like that on the Knicks. Hes going to be able to walk into the NBA and be an impact player right away.As i said it's easy to say this guy is nogood while not offering a pick ofyour own.I have to laugh at the Baby shaq stuff. No one has seen him play here--his write up on Rivals was that he was a 6-8 version of Diop--that he was more prepared for the WWF than the NBA. When he took a foul shot you had no idea if it was going to air ball or plunk off the backboard and he puts up very tiny numbers. Just like people got burned letting Carlos Boozer pass-they will get burned by Sweetney. I believe the best 5 in America last year were

c-Emeka Okafor
PF Mike Sweetney
SF Carmelo Anthony
SG Dwyane Wade
PG TJ Ford

if anyone can find a better starting 5 id like to see it.
SG
RIP Crushalot😞
Swishfm3
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5/4/2003  10:52 PM
First of all STAT BOY..I don't care what his averages are..the fact of the matter is that this guy couldn't even lead his team to NCAA Tournament...

I also noticed you listed your top 5 players in college and didn't list your boy KAMAN....what happen?

C-Estill (Not a real center but he played better than these clowns)
PF-Collison (You must have forgotten about him)
SF-Anthony (no brainer)
SG-Hayes (A notch better than Wade)
PG-Felton (I know you haven't heard about him cuz your favorite sports writer hasn't mentioned him..but you will next year)
Vmart
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5/5/2003  11:14 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Sweetney had over 100 blocks 3.5 per game + 2 steals per game to go along with 23 points and 10.5 rebounds while being double teamed and triple teamed every night. He's not a super run jump athlete like an Amare Stoudemire but rather has explosion from his powerful torso like Brand with long arms. Just for comparison sakes here is the stats for othella harrington while he was a junior at Gtown and sweetney

othella 14.7 points 8 rebounds 1.5 blocks 0.7 steals

Sweetney 23 points 10.5 rebounds 3.5 blocks 2 steals


We don't have 1 powerful young athlete with skills like that on the Knicks. Hes going to be able to walk into the NBA and be an impact player right away.As i said it's easy to say this guy is nogood while not offering a pick ofyour own.I have to laugh at the Baby shaq stuff. No one has seen him play here--his write up on Rivals was that he was a 6-8 version of Diop--that he was more prepared for the WWF than the NBA. When he took a foul shot you had no idea if it was going to air ball or plunk off the backboard and he puts up very tiny numbers. Just like people got burned letting Carlos Boozer pass-they will get burned by Sweetney. I believe the best 5 in America last year were

c-Emeka Okafor
PF Mike Sweetney
SF Carmelo Anthony
SG Dwyane Wade
PG TJ Ford

if anyone can find a better starting 5 id like to see it.
SG

No more undersized pfs please. The kNicks need height and its been well documented for the last three years now. How long are the Knicks going to go that route again. Lets put a stop to this and just get a center. I'll take the 7'4'' 300 pounds 18 year old before Sweetney. I'm sure that Sweetney will be a good player but the Knicks need size they don't even have a center with size and to add another undersized pf your never gonna win big with that. In the NBA size is crucial for a team to go far and without it this team will just be a pretender. Briggs, keep your focus man this team needs size in the worst way possible the head coach is even signing that tune now. If you want to win big in the NBA get size first.
tkf
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5/5/2003  2:53 PM
Posted by Swishfm3:

He was so great he led his team to the NIT.....

I compare Sweetney to Sam Clancy...same body and same type of game.

Where is Sam CLancy again???

Haha Swish, you are a fool dukes..LOL.. I feel you on that one but seriously, sweetney is a good player, he is more athletic than most his size, he is bigger than clancey and a baetter rebounder but I agree, there are others I would consider with our pick...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Swishfm3
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5/5/2003  3:16 PM
~TkF
I'm not really hating on Sweetney..he did his thing in College, but he is not what the Knicks need right now (Like VMart stated)
I would rather the Knicks TRADE the pick then pick up ANOTHER PF.
Vmart
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5/5/2003  3:26 PM
Posted by Swishfm3:

~TkF
I'm not really hating on Sweetney..he did his thing in College, but he is not what the Knicks need right now (Like VMart stated)
I would rather the Knicks TRADE the pick then pick up ANOTHER PF.

I can't hate Sweetney either he is a very good player, but like I said Height, Height, Height thats the way to go then with the two second round picks pick up some more height. I don't want that sorry excuse next year if we had height we would be this and that. I have been hearing that sorry excuse for the last 3 years now. Its high time they do something about it.
BigSm00th
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5/5/2003  4:27 PM
Swish, you're way off base:

"First of all STAT BOY..I don't care what his averages are..the fact of the matter is that this guy couldn't even lead his team to NCAA Tournament..."-If you want to go by this point, you then go and put Raymond Felton over TJ Ford at PG. Are you crazy? Ford was the college player of the year for ESPN, the majority of publications, and when for when the coaches voted. You must know more then them. Not only that, HE LED HIS TEAM TO THE FINAL FOUR! WHERE WAS UNC? UNC had as much talent as UT and they didn't even qualify for the NCAA. You crossed yourself up big time man, find a position and stick with it. You're just against Sweetney because of the fact that Briggs likes him and you're anti-Briggs.

Look at the numbers, they don't lie. Against double and triple teams in a conference with quite a few talented big men he put up shockingly good numbers.

"C-Estill (Not a real center but he played better than these clowns)"-Over Okafor? You don't watch basketball if you have him over Okafor. You won't find one cat on this board who agrees with you there or Felton over Ford.

And before I finish, "SG-Hayes (A notch better than Wade)", Once again making yourself the biggest hypocrite on the board after excaliming "oh sweentey didnt even lead his team to the NCAAs" Wade leads him team to, what the Elite 8 was it? I know Hayes' team got burned because of the Harrick thing, but Wade got there and got the job done and your crossing yourself up again. Whats that about?

I'm not saying the Knicks should pick Sweetney, I think he's a good player and will be a solid pro but the stuff you're saying is laughable.

You admitted a while back that to spite Dolan and Co. you didn't watch basketball this year or somethign to that extent, and that's all good, I respect you for that, but don't come in here and pretend to know what's going on if you don't watch the NCAA and say Felton played better then TJ Ford this year or Esill better then Okafor or that Mike Sweetney played ****ty.

[Edited by - bigsm00th on 05/05/2003 16:30:37]
#Knickstaps
BRIGGS
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5/5/2003  4:48 PM
Im not interested in reaching. Mike Sweetney is a HIGHLY skilled 20 Yo 6-8 260 pound interior player with high character. He is a force on both ends of the floor. I *know* what Im getting. You dont want to pass on a player with that skill level in the post.Who would you rather have playing PF 34 year old string bean PJ brown or 20 year old Sweetney. Atleast this way we are preparing to start building a new core. If Im drafting anyone @ 9 I dont want a project unless its from the US and its been rated in the top5 players in high school basketball. Mike Sweetney is a high quality pick.We are notgoing to failor get burned from that typeofpick--on the contrary I beleive he will be a 20-10 player within 2-3 years tops. I wish we could get both Kaman and Sweetney but it will never happen. It's better to find a stop gap C in free agency on th cheap or in a tradethan reaching for an 18 year old project from Russia via Italy or an 18 year old 30% free throw shooter with a superman cape. Sorry but I will take the 23 point 10.5 rebound 3.5block 1.5 steal PF whomI know will give me solid play for my investment--hes a franchise player? well he could be right at that tier. Hes a TOP 3 player in college along with Antony and Okafor.
RIP Crushalot😞
Vmart
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5/5/2003  5:10 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Im not interested in reaching. Mike Sweetney is a HIGHLY skilled 20 Yo 6-8 260 pound interior player with high character. He is a force on both ends of the floor. I *know* what Im getting. You dont want to pass on a player with that skill level in the post.Who would you rather have playing PF 34 year old string bean PJ brown or 20 year old Sweetney. Atleast this way we are preparing to start building a new core. If Im drafting anyone @ 9 I dont want a project unless its from the US and its been rated in the top5 players in high school basketball. Mike Sweetney is a high quality pick.We are notgoing to failor get burned from that typeofpick--on the contrary I beleive he will be a 20-10 player within 2-3 years tops. I wish we could get both Kaman and Sweetney but it will never happen. It's better to find a stop gap C in free agency on th cheap or in a tradethan reaching for an 18 year old project from Russia via Italy or an 18 year old 30% free throw shooter with a superman cape. Sorry but I will take the 23 point 10.5 rebound 3.5block 1.5 steal PF whomI know will give me solid play for my investment--hes a franchise player? well he could be right at that tier. Hes a TOP 3 player in college along with Antony and Okafor.

I hate to tell you this but college ball ain't what it use to be. Just look at all these players coming out of college what the heck are they accomplishing in the league last year you had Williams and Dunlevey they may be good in the future but I know some of these foreign players will be good to. Its a matter of doing the homework. Sweetney plays college ball where there are no centers to deal with they are all 6'8'' to 6'9'' center in college ball. Last year Pau Gasol won the rookie of the year this year it was a HS kid and the runner up was a Foreign player, where your college boys at.

Right now I guarantee you the better player will be the 7'4'' Russian. The man is 7'4'' 300 pounds. He is gonna walk into double doubles. Even if he doesn't do anything forget if he get a couple of years under his belt he gonna be a dominant force. double doubles and 3-4 blocks a game. Let me tell you something BRIGGS you see a space eater like that on the court teams think twice about going in the middle. The problem the Knicks had this year and the last two is no one has been afraid to challenge KT and Doleac. Don't get me wrong if I had another first round pick and Sweetney was available with that pick I would take him. They need a center man.
rain
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5/5/2003  5:31 PM
Briggs... your not doing a good job of projecting here. Sweetney would be a terrible reach. He's Elton Brand with less athleticism. His power game does not translate well to the pro-game... in all honesty I see him as a young Marc Jackson (twolves) with more motivation. Your at #9... get someone who has some ceiling. We already have Othella and Kurt on the roster. He would be a complete waste on our team.
Caseloads
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5/5/2003  5:52 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

Swish, you're way off base:

"First of all STAT BOY..I don't care what his averages are..the fact of the matter is that this guy couldn't even lead his team to NCAA Tournament..."-If you want to go by this point, you then go and put Raymond Felton over TJ Ford at PG. Are you crazy? Ford was the college player of the year for ESPN, the majority of publications, and when for when the coaches voted. You must know more then them. Not only that, HE LED HIS TEAM TO THE FINAL FOUR! WHERE WAS UNC? UNC had as much talent as UT and they didn't even qualify for the NCAA. You crossed yourself up big time man, find a position and stick with it. You're just against Sweetney because of the fact that Briggs likes him and you're anti-Briggs.

Look at the numbers, they don't lie. Against double and triple teams in a conference with quite a few talented big men he put up shockingly good numbers.

"C-Estill (Not a real center but he played better than these clowns)"-Over Okafor? You don't watch basketball if you have him over Okafor. You won't find one cat on this board who agrees with you there or Felton over Ford.

And before I finish, "SG-Hayes (A notch better than Wade)", Once again making yourself the biggest hypocrite on the board after excaliming "oh sweentey didnt even lead his team to the NCAAs" Wade leads him team to, what the Elite 8 was it? I know Hayes' team got burned because of the Harrick thing, but Wade got there and got the job done and your crossing yourself up again. Whats that about?

I'm not saying the Knicks should pick Sweetney, I think he's a good player and will be a solid pro but the stuff you're saying is laughable.

You admitted a while back that to spite Dolan and Co. you didn't watch basketball this year or somethign to that extent, and that's all good, I respect you for that, but don't come in here and pretend to know what's going on if you don't watch the NCAA and say Felton played better then TJ Ford this year or Esill better then Okafor or that Mike Sweetney played ****ty.

[Edited by - bigsm00th on 05/05/2003 16:30:37]

Briggs man, great points. The fact of the matter is, Pavel P. and Greeek Baby Shaq are right now nobodies, but each has huge talent to work with - I don't like that either for our pick, as I'd prefer someone who is a huge talent, huge ceiling and prepared skills already. The NBA draft is all about three pillars:

I) size (1st and foremost - height, hops, body type, since these are hardest to teach),

II) potential (2nd - athleticism, innate ability, basketball IQ, on court vision, character, work ethic, vibe) and

III) skills (3rd, since it can be worked on / taught) for one's position.

At 6-8 (probably 6-7), sweetney doesn't fulfill the first thing we need. The guy isn't going to grow, and has freaking CLARENCE WEATHERSPOON and Othella Harrington and TRAVIS KNIGHT ahead of him in the rotation. that is the sad part.

Greek Baby Shaq, at probably 6-10, could play center, has height for PF. If rumors that he's 6-8 are true, he's NOT going to be drafted by the Knicks. Period. We already have Kurt Thomas, at 6-8, playing Center.

If This Pavel Podkozlin is actually 7-4 300 pounds, and have any sort of decent skills, no history of injury, can dunk, run the drills and maybe block a shot or two in workouts, and shows some instinct, he's getting drafted in the lotto, period, probably before our #9 spot.
tkf
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5/5/2003  10:56 PM
swish: I agree although I like Sweetney, I would rather go in a different direction with our pick, sweetny scares me because I almost see othella Harrington all over again. I have seen games where he got 25 points 19 boards and his team still lose, he seems to put up good numbers but his numbers don't seem to have the effect on the game like they should. I don't think he is as good as a brand and I don't want another undersized PF. Like you said if we can get something else with our pick I am all for it..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
BigSm00th
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5/5/2003  11:36 PM
" have seen games where he got 25 points 19 boards and his team still lose, he seems to put up good numbers but his numbers don't seem to have the effect on the game like they should."-Very good point.
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BRIGGS
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5/6/2003  1:24 AM
I've been pushing Chris Kaman for a year. Believe me Im the one who first introduced the possibility of going after Kaman right after our season started. I know basketball--I played and watched it for 25 years+. I like and follow college basketball as much as pro basketball--so I have seen Mike Sweetney play 20+ times in 3 years. I know how good he is. To make blanket statements like this 7-4 four basketball player should be our pick is pure specualtion. If you said well Chris Kaman is 7 feet 260 pounds and has great post moves, runs the floor well etc...I think we should possibly trade up for him then I will agree with you.I have said numerous times that while I dont believe Chris is a franchise type center--he SHOULD still be a quality player from the 5 and we need his length and the skill he has with it. Jees I have seen the George Muerasans of the world. even Sean bradley--he s awful. Many player who are that big are usually busts. If we have a second pickin the first round or this player falls to the second round--I have no problem using a specualtive pick on him. But if Scott Layden cant move up or he doesnt fall in our lap--in ANY sport professional managers will take the best player available. I think if it is a choice between TJ Ford Dwyane wade and Mike Sweetney we will go with the post player. Picking Sweetney at 9 is accurate. ALL the mock drafts I have seen put him in the top 10 where he should be. And please dont compare Othella to Mike Sweetney. You dont watch basketball if you make that comment. Mike is a consensus lottery pick and othella was picked in the second round and there is a reason for that. It's a good pick if that scenario occurs. As for people putting up big numbers on a medocre team? Well I guess no one should draft Chris Bosh or the Knicks shouldve traded patrick Ewing his first couple of years. Gtown made it to the NIT finals, thats a quality year in a very tough conference when the rest of the talent on his team wasnt very good. Imnot going to argue about it, I have enough experience to know the NY Knick organization will probably try to get kaman --then attempt to dump the pick and last but not least will take the best player available. when was the last time you saw a PROJECT on the Knicks bench.Maybe Ken the animal Bannister :>) back in 1984
RIP Crushalot😞
Caseloads
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5/6/2003  2:46 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

I've been pushing Chris Kaman for a year. Believe me Im the one who first introduced the possibility of going after Kaman right after our season started. I know basketball--I played and watched it for 25 years+. I like and follow college basketball as much as pro basketball--so I have seen Mike Sweetney play 20+ times in 3 years. I know how good he is. To make blanket statements like this 7-4 four basketball player should be our pick is pure specualtion. If you said well Chris Kaman is 7 feet 260 pounds and has great post moves, runs the floor well etc...I think we should possibly trade up for him then I will agree with you.I have said numerous times that while I dont believe Chris is a franchise type center--he SHOULD still be a quality player from the 5 and we need his length and the skill he has with it. Jees I have seen the George Muerasans of the world. even Sean bradley--he s awful. Many player who are that big are usually busts. If we have a second pickin the first round or this player falls to the second round--I have no problem using a specualtive pick on him. But if Scott Layden cant move up or he doesnt fall in our lap--in ANY sport professional managers will take the best player available. I think if it is a choice between TJ Ford Dwyane wade and Mike Sweetney we will go with the post player. Picking Sweetney at 9 is accurate. ALL the mock drafts I have seen put him in the top 10 where he should be. And please dont compare Othella to Mike Sweetney. You dont watch basketball if you make that comment. Mike is a consensus lottery pick and othella was picked in the second round and there is a reason for that. It's a good pick if that scenario occurs. As for people putting up big numbers on a medocre team? Well I guess no one should draft Chris Bosh or the Knicks shouldve traded patrick Ewing his first couple of years. Gtown made it to the NIT finals, thats a quality year in a very tough conference when the rest of the talent on his team wasnt very good. Imnot going to argue about it, I have enough experience to know the NY Knick organization will probably try to get kaman --then attempt to dump the pick and last but not least will take the best player available. when was the last time you saw a PROJECT on the Knicks bench.Maybe Ken the animal Bannister :>) back in 1984
i remember you pushing for kaman early in the year. i just don't think he's all that. i've seen him play. he's not even chris mihm's level in my opinion (chris mihm has had some nice games against the knicks by the way). he's gonna to be a nobody, not the next yao, in my opinion. I agree that the knicks just don't gamble on picks, period. the last gamble was weis, which was a complete disaster, basketball-wise and PR wise.

as for sweetney, i'm not sold. he didn't have the skill or heart to upend St. John's in the NIT game I saw. you've got to be kidding me. St. John's had no near lotto picks, let alone second rounders on their frontline. Marcus Hatten, a 6'1" SG destroyed his team. What type of leader is he - on the court / locker room? If he needed to go off for 50 to win, he should have done whatever he could have against a really undersized, undertalented NIT team, St Johns.
Swishfm3
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5/6/2003  9:55 AM
You can push, call and yell for kaman and Sweetney all you want..I'm just glad that Layden is our GM and not you....
Here is a picture of Sweetney skying over the rim

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