I think we need to get under the cap. The Knicks is not only a team its a business. The business plan should be get the team under the cap while assembling astrong core of productive young players. If it was not for injuries we would have been in the playoffs. We sit get more youth and continue to develop. The older our youth gets the better they get like wine. It would break my heart to see Balkman and Lee dominate on another teams. I don't want a quick fix. Fuck a Championship. I want CHAMPIONSHIPS! KNICKS DYNASTY!!!

I know we deserve better. Its why my anger with Dolan and Isiah increases almost daily. We deserve better than those two.

Quit yer bitching.

You just witnessed the greatest 33 win team in the history of sports. If it weren't for the fans, injuries, Larry Brown, injuries, Scott Layden, the refs, global warming, the guy who proposed the salary cap in the NBA, injuries and a few other things, the Knicks might have gotten that 8th seed. After that the sky was the limit.

You guys should start appreciating what you have before IT's gone.

Posted by nixluva:

I'm not beaten down and I don't see why at this point we shouldn't be looking forward to the next few years. For one thing we know that we do have some talent to build with. It may not be with a superstar like most would want right now, but we do have some good young players that we can get behind. We'll either get a stud vet this year or hold out for Cap space in 2 years. I don't see what's so bad about our situation. If we stand pat we'll be spending the next 2 years developing and judging the talent we have so that we can make a good decison on who stays or goes.

EVERY fan wants their team to be a title contender! The thing is that it's extremely hard to do even when you have a competent GM and Owner. You have to get the Superstar a good Coach, Good GM and owner all at the same time and then you need a bit of good fortune as well. To stay healthy and for most of your moves to work. No one has a formula and I grow tired of people thinking that someone really does have it all figured out. Gerry West was about the best GM i've ever seen and short of him I haven't really been that impressed with to many other guys. Joe Dumars is another guy that really has done a great job, in particular without that Stud superstar. SA really did catch a huge break with Duncan and then they made solid moves from then on. They really have made the most of the foreign players and they've managed their cap very well. So far there are other GM's who seem to be doing a very good job, but their work is not yet complete. Paxson comes to mind. We'll see what he does from here on. The easy part it drafting well when your team stinks and adding talent, the hard part is getting that next few steps to the Finals.

It's all correct but you missing the point - all teams and GM's you mentioned have PLAN to go with.
Not "Youth Movement" + "Young and Athletics" + "Win now" + "Stay pat" + "Get Superstar" crap but PLAN to build a quality team and a contender. All this small mantras are just small parts of the plan but for The Knicks its new panacea every day. The team with short minded management will be always short in all aspects of the game and business.

Posted by franco12:

I thought this thread was going along the lines of:

Are Knicks fans so beat down.........that you don't think we'll ever be good again.


And I think the answer is yes- except for a few diehard koolaid drinkers.

I am beat down. I don't think anyone on this current roster who has a prominent role will play a role in bringing a championship to this team unless its as a marginal role player/ veteran 10 years from now.

I honestly think its going to be 5 years until the garbage gets cleared off this roster.

Trading 2 unprotected lotto picks has set us back 5 years- partly because curry wasn't worth it, but mostly because had we had those picks, those players would have taken 5 years to develop.

And don't forget about the 2010 pick that we owe.

Agree... but you are a bit on the "dark side"
The situation can change but it requires dramatic changes. First thing in management.
Can Dolan go for this as he did with Rangers is to be seen.
I was really beat down like Rangers fan for 10 years but the turn around last year came by surprise.
And the reason was new leadesheep and new PLAN which works right on money in ONE year.
Don't be so sad - it's always a hope for miracles. They do happened in life.







[Edited by - arkrud on 06-25-2007 10:42 AM]

You know it may sound strange, but Isiah being here is actually a good thing for us fans. WHY? Because he actually does want to win and despite Dolan and his bottom line thinking, Isiah wants to do whatever he can to make this team a winner and seal his legacy as a winner here. Now he may not always make the right choices, but I never get the feeling that he's not trying to improve our situation.

The feelings some of us have are one thing but the reality is that this team is 2 years from getting out of cap hell. We have talented youth that isn't done developing. Heck even the roster itself isn't a finished product, so the idea that we don't yet have what it takes to win a title one day is the most obvious point anyone can make. It in no way means that we don't have a shot to do that in the next few years, cuz clearly we DO, just like any other team in the league.

I don't see any reason to be overly pessimistic when we haven't had the draft and we are still in the beginning of summer activity with a lot of teams ready to make changes. None of us know exactly what is going to happen, so there's always a chance that things can change quickly for the better. I doubt that we'll see things get worse this summer. If a deal happens it will likely be one that improves the team in some way. It's starting to look like the chances of a big deal are slim, which might mean that we'll take the slower and more patient approach. Looking down the road a couple of years. I don't have a problem with that either.

Are Knicks fans so beat down.........that you don't think we'll ever be good again.

I never said that! Get the facts straight. I'm talking about the moral of the fans. Where's the passion to get what we deserve? I like the youth movement, but we can do much, much better. You have a right to speak out, all of you, because the stupid has been going on for too long. The handling of the money and contracts should be the easiest part in building this team and it's been dummyfied..........stupidfied!

For instance, no way in hell does starbury deserve $20,000,000.00 in a season. We could have, should have gotten two quality players for the same amount. No one's been knocking down the door to out bid us. We have a salary that is well over $100,000,000.00. If you divide that' into fifteen players alone, that's $6,600,000.00 per player. You know the rooks aren't going to make that kind of money right away, so the veterans and the few players who deserve more would get a fair price and then some, if it were handled correctly. When you invest $20,000,000.00 in one guy, theres' something very wrong with some one's math. If we were talking Kobe here, then hell yeah' the dude is worth every penny. Not like the joke that was made, when we paid Allan Houston more than Kobe a few years back! Hell' even I' can figure this out and I'm not a GM or a mathmatician of any kind. I'm not even a magician! It should be easy to figure out. The second highest pay roll I think is Dallas, with $90,000,000.00 and do you think they can out bid us, if we have the money distributed the right way, with a lot of cap money left over, for those rainy days, when we really need money to spend? Of course not.

Posted by arkrud:

Posted by franco12:

I thought this thread was going along the lines of:

Are Knicks fans so beat down.........that you don't think we'll ever be good again.


And I think the answer is yes- except for a few diehard koolaid drinkers.

I am beat down. I don't think anyone on this current roster who has a prominent role will play a role in bringing a championship to this team unless its as a marginal role player/ veteran 10 years from now.

I honestly think its going to be 5 years until the garbage gets cleared off this roster.

Trading 2 unprotected lotto picks has set us back 5 years- partly because curry wasn't worth it, but mostly because had we had those picks, those players would have taken 5 years to develop.

And don't forget about the 2010 pick that we owe.

Agree... but you are a bit on the "dark side"
The situation can change but it requires dramatic changes. First thing in management.
Can Dolan go for this as he did with Rangers is to be seen.
I was really beat down like Rangers fan for 10 years but the turn around last year came by surprise.
And the reason was new leadesheep and new PLAN which works right on money in ONE year.
Don't be so sad - it's always a hope for miracles. They do happened in life.







[Edited by - arkrud on 06-25-2007 10:42 AM]

I am encouraged by the rangers- but- I think you can turn around things in Hockey faster than in basketball- bigger roster, easier buy outs, etc.

with the CBA, you're married to contracts forever.

Very simple. Don't pay more than what someone is worth. Don't be cheap either. You still want to stay ahead of the other offers, but this can only happen if we are in the position to do so. Be consistent with that formula and the salary cap will pay off like it was meant to be in the first place. Now if someone set up some 'under the table deal' scenario, then this is something we don't know about. It's the only reason I can think of, that it has been done this way for so long. Change those habits. You only offer a little higher, if someone is offering ahead of you. I will use Kobe again as an example. If Kobe was on the table, then yes, you offer him higher' because you want to make sure you get a chance at the sure thing. If your going to 'break the bank' to get someone, than you better make sure it's someone who is the best in the league. Otherwise, like I always say, save the money for something else yet to come. That's the fiscal mentality I would use. If a guy wants to hide his hand and pretend he's getting a higher offer somewhere else, then I would want to know for sure and force him to bow out. If he wants to turn my (say for instance) $10 mil down, when he's only getting offered 8 mil., and saying he's getting offered 15 mil., trying to force me to offer 16, 17, 18 mil., then he can stay there and pass me up if he wants to. He'll think twice about that one. Of course, keep in mind, this is all done through agents and the GM and lawyers.

But you see what I'm saying? These kinds of scenarios can only work, if we have cap space and maintain that space. it's possible to use the entire cap and not go over if the parts are legit. Then' and only then can you call it 'an investment well spent'. We just don't have that right now. All we got going for us right now is rookies and we still have to wait to see how they will pan out. Unless we can get Kobe in New York, continue to develop from within, try to get the contracts off the books and build the money. Build the money. That's very important.