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slow and steady or all in?
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EnySpree
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6/5/2007  10:12 AM
Talk of garnett, JO, sheed and gasol are all "all-in" moves. A lot of us realistically don't want to morgage the future when it comes down to it. 2009 is supposed to be the next big chance to get under the cap, with marbs coming off the books.

So knicks kinda need to focus on geting 20 something year olds with moderate contracts, or even better, rookie contracts.

Channing isn't going to be anything in ny next to curry. Dude still has good talent. Channing came out of a decent draft class.

Someone mentioned him recently and I'd like to start of with him here: Charlie villenueva.

The bucks traded TJ ford for him so they probably think highly of him.I love the guy and wish Toronto let him drop to ny and taken Frye to begin with. Anyway, the biggest need for the bucks is a big man that can score. They already have bogut but bogut seems to want to be the rebounder/dedender. Frye probably needs a guy like bogut to feed off of. With redd around Frye has a better chance to roam and get easy baskets. They could then draft charlies replacement in Corey brewer. It makes for a more well rounded team.

I personally think Charlie can do it all. Kid is a prolific scorer and is a great passer and help defender. The knicks need his versitility and size at the 3. His skill would make the whole team better. He does have injury concerns after being hurt for most of the last 2 years.

I think the kid could make the knicks a playoff team especially if David lee comes back healthy. Charlie would make him so much better. Curry would have a guy that will have no problem giving it up to him just like lee does on the interior passes. Charlie is dangerous from the outside as well.

The knicks might have to trade Nate as well or would the bucks even take back Steve Francis to pair up with redd. Francis would have all the room he needs to operate and the team surrounding him actually would need a player like him to get things started.

Aside from this scenerio, what othe young players do the knicks have a shot at?
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djsunyc
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6/5/2007  10:13 AM
best plan of attack: go all-in for contracts that expire within 3 seasons OR do nothing, play it out, so that in the event isiah gets fired, the next person doesn't inherit a 3-4 year cap albatross.
MS
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6/5/2007  10:19 AM
Fracis is one of the worst guards in the league, he kills the clock, has no handle anymore, can't shoot and turns it over. He does it with a huge ego, bad attitude and doesn't try at all on defense......

He is a disgrace to the nba with his wasted talent, no one is taking him, and Frye is not going to get us Charlie, because he can actually shoot the ball with range and can dunk the ball without having to be all alone......

There is no such thing as all in if you trade for Sheed, you giving away two contracts and frye or your not doing the deal, period. He vaults us into contending status and beneficial playoff experience for lee, balkman, curry and collins, if thats really all in i don't know what to say
nixluva
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6/5/2007  10:24 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

best plan of attack: go all-in for contracts that expire within 3 seasons OR do nothing, play it out, so that in the event isiah gets fired, the next person doesn't inherit a 3-4 year cap albatross.

I agree that you would want to keep the contracts short, but I would think any Vet coming here would want some security and a guaranteed large payday. I think it would be hard to make a trade for one of these guys and not commit 4-5 years to them. So that being the case I tend to want to stay with the young guys and see what we can do to get more out of them and add another pick in this draft to further address our needs and upgrade the talent for the future.

It seems like a tough decision that Isiah has. There are guys who may be available that would help us right now. The thing he has to ask is will any of those players make us a title contender? That seems to be the determining factor. If you know that you could get a guy that would push you over the top then you would have to consider making that move. Lewis would be an improvement, but not enough to make us a lock for the ECF. JO might just push us into that level, but only if he can stay healthy, which is a HUGE if. KG would probably be close to a lock to get into the 2nd rd for sure. Kobe I think would make us a lock to get to the ECF. The East just isn't that strong. Even after making a trade for Kobe we'd have enough to be a ECF team IMO. Of course he would be the longest shot of all, so that's more a dream than an actual option, but if there's any chance at all you have to be ready to make it happen. Short of Kobe or KG, I think we stand pat and ride the next 2 years out.
JohnWallace44
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6/5/2007  10:30 AM
If you're waiting for all of the contracts to expire so that you can get a great player... then why not get a great player now?
KG is that player, all of the others with long deals should not be chased.

Sheed is a different story, his deal expires the same year as Marbs and Francis. If you can get him in a good deal, why not?
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djsunyc
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6/5/2007  10:38 AM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by djsunyc:

best plan of attack: go all-in for contracts that expire within 3 seasons OR do nothing, play it out, so that in the event isiah gets fired, the next person doesn't inherit a 3-4 year cap albatross.

I agree that you would want to keep the contracts short, but I would think any Vet coming here would want some security and a guaranteed large payday. I think it would be hard to make a trade for one of these guys and not commit 4-5 years to them. So that being the case I tend to want to stay with the young guys and see what we can do to get more out of them and add another pick in this draft to further address our needs and upgrade the talent for the future.

It seems like a tough decision that Isiah has. There are guys who may be available that would help us right now. The thing he has to ask is will any of those players make us a title contender? That seems to be the determining factor. If you know that you could get a guy that would push you over the top then you would have to consider making that move. Lewis would be an improvement, but not enough to make us a lock for the ECF. JO might just push us into that level, but only if he can stay healthy, which is a HUGE if. KG would probably be close to a lock to get into the 2nd rd for sure. Kobe I think would make us a lock to get to the ECF. The East just isn't that strong. Even after making a trade for Kobe we'd have enough to be a ECF team IMO. Of course he would be the longest shot of all, so that's more a dream than an actual option, but if there's any chance at all you have to be ready to make it happen. Short of Kobe or KG, I think we stand pat and ride the next 2 years out.

the main question, and it's up to dolan, is when do wins start to matter?

if isiah HAS to make the playoffs this year, then i can see him making a move. but if he doesn't, and he has another year or two leeway, then there's no pressure on him to make a move.

and not for nothing, making a move may not be best for isiah's own interest b/c expectation levels increase, and if they increase, and the team doesn't live up to them, it's tougher to spin.
TheGame
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6/5/2007  11:36 AM
The best plan is to trade Frye for a draft pick. We can add a solid young player and we will restart the 4 year rookie contrac window, which should help us in 2009 when we want to sign a free agent and would have to also resign Lee and possibly Nate. I would love if we can trade Fyre to the Bobcats for the 22nd pick and maybe a second round pick if they have one. They could use Frye because they don't have a scoring center right now.

With three picks, we can get a PG, SG, and PF. All positions of need.
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BasketballJones
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6/5/2007  11:45 AM
If you believe that getting under the cap is of primary importance than I think you stick with slow and steady and accept a couple more years of suffering. If it's gotta be done, then just do it and get it over with. I think this is the best course for the long term, but it's gonna suck over the relative short-term.

I hope this franchise has learned that throwing money around with no plan does not constitute a strategy to build a championship team.
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franco12
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6/5/2007  11:49 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by djsunyc:

best plan of attack: go all-in for contracts that expire within 3 seasons OR do nothing, play it out, so that in the event isiah gets fired, the next person doesn't inherit a 3-4 year cap albatross.

I agree that you would want to keep the contracts short, but I would think any Vet coming here would want some security and a guaranteed large payday. I think it would be hard to make a trade for one of these guys and not commit 4-5 years to them. So that being the case I tend to want to stay with the young guys and see what we can do to get more out of them and add another pick in this draft to further address our needs and upgrade the talent for the future.

It seems like a tough decision that Isiah has. There are guys who may be available that would help us right now. The thing he has to ask is will any of those players make us a title contender? That seems to be the determining factor. If you know that you could get a guy that would push you over the top then you would have to consider making that move. Lewis would be an improvement, but not enough to make us a lock for the ECF. JO might just push us into that level, but only if he can stay healthy, which is a HUGE if. KG would probably be close to a lock to get into the 2nd rd for sure. Kobe I think would make us a lock to get to the ECF. The East just isn't that strong. Even after making a trade for Kobe we'd have enough to be a ECF team IMO. Of course he would be the longest shot of all, so that's more a dream than an actual option, but if there's any chance at all you have to be ready to make it happen. Short of Kobe or KG, I think we stand pat and ride the next 2 years out.

the main question, and it's up to dolan, is when do wins start to matter?

if isiah HAS to make the playoffs this year, then i can see him making a move. but if he doesn't, and he has another year or two leeway, then there's no pressure on him to make a move.

and not for nothing, making a move may not be best for isiah's own interest b/c expectation levels increase, and if they increase, and the team doesn't live up to them, it's tougher to spin.

Wins are going to matter in 2010 when we owe, unconditionally, our first round pick. Depending on the draft next year, I don't think Dolan would mind tanking it to add talent.

I think if there is a deal during the summer that Isiah gives up talent in exchange for a pick/less of a contract, I think it gets done.
arkrud
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6/5/2007  12:17 PM
This is not a live question.
We have nothing to offer and it will be no situation changing deals.
I am putting aside some wild scenario if somebody (KG, Kobe, JO) will push the trade specifically to NY.
This is unlikely and will be All-in poker move for us. Usually doesn't work for players with short stock...
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EnySpree
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6/5/2007  12:53 PM
But what about making the lateral trade like I suggested? Trade for guys we need for guys we don't. Keep it rookie contract level.

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arkrud
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6/5/2007  1:50 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

But what about making the lateral trade like I suggested? Trade for guys we need for guys we don't. Keep it rookie contract level.

Why somebody needs guys we don't? We don't need them because they suck.
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TMS
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6/5/2007  1:56 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

best plan of attack: go all-in for contracts that expire within 3 seasons OR do nothing, play it out, so that in the event isiah gets fired, the next person doesn't inherit a 3-4 year cap albatross.

i say go all in for contracts that expire when Marbury & Francis' contracts do... mine as well TRY & compete for a title while Marbury's here... staying the course accomplishes nothing because this current core isn't going to contend for a title no matter how long we wait.
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Elite
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6/5/2007  2:14 PM
try to trade Jerome and Jeffries for shorter deals.
TMS
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6/5/2007  2:16 PM
Posted by Elite:

try to trade Jerome and Jeffries for shorter deals.

I think we'd have an easier time trading for Kobe. What team would want to take on James or Jefferies & give up shorter contracts?
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martin
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6/5/2007  2:18 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Elite:

try to trade Jerome and Jeffries for shorter deals.

I think we'd have an easier time trading for Kobe. What team would want to take on James or Jefferies & give up shorter contracts?

maybe Artest for JJ. But that's a stretch without some other picks.
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TMS
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6/5/2007  2:20 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Elite:

try to trade Jerome and Jeffries for shorter deals.

I think we'd have an easier time trading for Kobe. What team would want to take on James or Jefferies & give up shorter contracts?

maybe Artest for JJ. But that's a stretch without some other picks.

i don't think that's possible unless we're taking on a bad contract from SAC, or like you said including a pick, which i don't want to do... i'd give up Malik for Artest in a heartbeat tho... contracts are the same... this is the type of move i'm willing to make now, because we can't just sit idle & let all the other teams get better while we stay stagnant unless we have a true franchise player to build around, & right now we don't.
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martin
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6/5/2007  2:26 PM
Posted by TMS:

i don't think that's possible unless we're taking on a bad contract from SAC, or like you said including a pick, which i don't want to do... i'd give up Malik for Artest in a heartbeat tho... contracts are the same... this is the type of move i'm willing to make now, because we can't just sit idle & let all the other teams get better while we stay stagnant unless we have a true franchise player to build around, & right now we don't.

wait, you wouldn't do JJ (James or Jeffries) + 23rd pick for Artest? I would.

I would do Jeffries, 23rd, Morris for Artest.
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franco12
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6/5/2007  2:50 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by TMS:

i don't think that's possible unless we're taking on a bad contract from SAC, or like you said including a pick, which i don't want to do... i'd give up Malik for Artest in a heartbeat tho... contracts are the same... this is the type of move i'm willing to make now, because we can't just sit idle & let all the other teams get better while we stay stagnant unless we have a true franchise player to build around, & right now we don't.

wait, you wouldn't do JJ (James or Jeffries) + 23rd pick for Artest? I would.

I would do Jeffries, 23rd, Morris for Artest.

Is Sac going to get a better offer than Jared & #23?

I think a lot of GM's can chalk JJ2's bad year to being in nyc, etc- he's definitely not a great player, but a role player who started to put up decent effort for us when he got more minutes.
Panos
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6/5/2007  3:24 PM
if we're rebuilding and looking past 2009, why do i want to give up a pick for Artest? He's not going to win us anything. Why not keep the 23 and have a chance at I.T. getting a lucky draft that will help us in the future?
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