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Bulls' future vs. Knicks


Author Poll
Bonn1997
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Which team has a brighter future?
Bulls
Knicks
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Author Thread
Nalod
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5/11/2007  9:43 AM


Moo!
AUTOADVERT
Marv
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5/11/2007  10:28 AM
Posted by Nalod:



Moo!

suck it trebek!
nixluva
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5/11/2007  12:09 PM
I don't like the Bulls lack of size at guard and I don't like their lack of any inside offensive presence at PF or C. They will always have trouble with teams that are bigger at guard and have a good inside presence. They have a smart team and they execute very well. They play VERY hard on D.

The Knicks have only to add a bit more shooting and a better compliment to Curry at PF. We may already have that PF on the roster. Only time will tell. We have good size all around and a more playoff ready team make up. We're behind them in stage of development, but we pretty much just put this group together in the season before last. We lost a year of development with LB, but I believe we'll catch up to them soon enough.
BasketballJones
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5/11/2007  12:19 PM
Posted by nixluva:

I don't like the Bulls lack of size at guard and I don't like their lack of any inside offensive presence at PF or C. They will always have trouble with teams that are bigger at guard and have a good inside presence. They have a smart team and they execute very well. They play VERY hard on D.

The Knicks have only to add a bit more shooting and a better compliment to Curry at PF. We may already have that PF on the roster. Only time will tell. We have good size all around and a more playoff ready team make up. We're behind them in stage of development, but we pretty much just put this group together in the season before last. We lost a year of development with LB, but I believe we'll catch up to them soon enough.

We also lost a year due to injuries, and a year due to booing. Also, don't forget about Layden, Weatherspoon, Eisley, et. al. They set us back 10 years.

https:// It's not so hard.
BlueSeats
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5/11/2007  12:22 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by nixluva:

I don't like the Bulls lack of size at guard and I don't like their lack of any inside offensive presence at PF or C. They will always have trouble with teams that are bigger at guard and have a good inside presence. They have a smart team and they execute very well. They play VERY hard on D.

The Knicks have only to add a bit more shooting and a better compliment to Curry at PF. We may already have that PF on the roster. Only time will tell. We have good size all around and a more playoff ready team make up. We're behind them in stage of development, but we pretty much just put this group together in the season before last. We lost a year of development with LB, but I believe we'll catch up to them soon enough.

We also lost a year due to injuries, and a year due to booing. Also, don't forget about Layden, Weatherspoon, Eisley, et. al. They set us back 10 years.

True, if you think about it this will really be Isiah's first year.

Solace
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5/11/2007  12:29 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by nixluva:

I don't like the Bulls lack of size at guard and I don't like their lack of any inside offensive presence at PF or C. They will always have trouble with teams that are bigger at guard and have a good inside presence. They have a smart team and they execute very well. They play VERY hard on D.

The Knicks have only to add a bit more shooting and a better compliment to Curry at PF. We may already have that PF on the roster. Only time will tell. We have good size all around and a more playoff ready team make up. We're behind them in stage of development, but we pretty much just put this group together in the season before last. We lost a year of development with LB, but I believe we'll catch up to them soon enough.

We also lost a year due to injuries, and a year due to booing. Also, don't forget about Layden, Weatherspoon, Eisley, et. al. They set us back 10 years.

True, if you think about it this will really be Isiah's first year.

Actually if you take all that into consideration, Isiah has about four more years before his first year.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
nixluva
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5/11/2007  12:30 PM
You guys are real funny, but I think you know exactly what I mean by losing a year under LB. We had to start from scratch to begin this season. That won't happen this year. We'll come in with some things already established. We can look to add on to the gameplan and put in some new wrinkles. We can look to perfect what we started this year. That wasn't possible after LB's season. But go ahead and make jokes. When you're done clowning maybe you can add something substantial to the conversation.
Bonn1997
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5/11/2007  12:33 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by nixluva:

I don't like the Bulls lack of size at guard and I don't like their lack of any inside offensive presence at PF or C. They will always have trouble with teams that are bigger at guard and have a good inside presence. They have a smart team and they execute very well. They play VERY hard on D.

The Knicks have only to add a bit more shooting and a better compliment to Curry at PF. We may already have that PF on the roster. Only time will tell. We have good size all around and a more playoff ready team make up. We're behind them in stage of development, but we pretty much just put this group together in the season before last. We lost a year of development with LB, but I believe we'll catch up to them soon enough.

We also lost a year due to injuries, and a year due to booing. Also, don't forget about Layden, Weatherspoon, Eisley, et. al. They set us back 10 years.

True, if you think about it this will really be Isiah's first year.

Actually if you take all that into consideration, Isiah has about four more years before his first year.

OMG! That's funny!
BlueSeats
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5/11/2007  12:39 PM
Posted by nixluva:

You guys are real funny, but I think you know exactly what I mean by losing a year under LB. We had to start from scratch to begin this season. That won't happen this year. We'll come in with some things already established. We can look to add on to the gameplan and put in some new wrinkles. We can look to perfect what we started this year. That wasn't possible after LB's season. But go ahead and make jokes. When you're done clowning maybe you can add something substantial to the conversation.


I happen to disagree with your blaming Brown for last season. I blame Isiah's terrible starting rotation.

The one hope we have is that Marbury won't come into camp out of shape and sulking, Francis wont be out there wobbling and sniveling, and Frye and Jeffries wont be confused about which side of the court they're on.

I happen to think the guys who play best with Curry are JC, Lee, Balkman, Malik and possibly Collins. I don't expect all of them to start, but last year none of them did. He was perfectly uncomplimented out there.
Solace
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5/11/2007  12:41 PM
Posted by nixluva:

You guys are real funny, but I think you know exactly what I mean by losing a year under LB.

Yes we do. We understand exactly. The understanding that such a thing is known as a blatant lie and pathetic excuse.

Please continue...
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
nixluva
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5/11/2007  12:46 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by nixluva:

You guys are real funny, but I think you know exactly what I mean by losing a year under LB. We had to start from scratch to begin this season. That won't happen this year. We'll come in with some things already established. We can look to add on to the gameplan and put in some new wrinkles. We can look to perfect what we started this year. That wasn't possible after LB's season. But go ahead and make jokes. When you're done clowning maybe you can add something substantial to the conversation.

I happen to disagree with your blaming Brown for last season. I blame Isiah's terrible starting rotation.

The one hope we have is that Marbury won't come into camp out of shape and sulking, Francis wont be out there wobbling and sniveling, and Frye and Jeffries wont be confused about which side of the court they're on.

I happen to think the guys who play best with Curry are JC, Lee, Balkman, Malik and possibly Collins. I don't expect all of them to start, but last year none of them did. He was perfectly uncomplimented out there.

I understand your point. Things certainly could've been handled better by Isiah. My point tho is not in disagreeement with yours in that Isiah had to try and figure things out, cuz there wasn't any established rotation that worked. LB never settled on anything and we came into the season a broken team, lacking confidence or any kind of chemistry. That is a set back. You don't want to go into a season like that. LB's job was to set things up and instill order. He didn't do that, but instead created chaos and doubt.

This doesn't absolve Isiah from his own poor decisions, but it made things much harder for him. To start with he had to build up confidence again and he had to try to put something together that would work. Even if LB didn't have great season, if he had at least established SOMETHING this team could've come into this season with something to build off of. At least we'll have that this coming season. That's a source of hope for a better year.
EnySpree
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5/11/2007  12:55 PM
Nixluva is absolutely right you sarcastic monsters.

As far basketball, Chicago and NY fans should have a gun fight everytime our teams play each other. We respect each others cities but its war when it comes to basketball.

Anyway, the bulls if anything did a good job of picking some heady, pro-ready players. As far as a structured team they are just lucky as all hell. Who would have thought Ben gordan would be a all-star calibur shooting guard. I thought the dude would be out the league by now cuz he couldn't play point. Hinrich was a terrible point guard in college and then comes into the league and becomes a solid playmaker. I thought he would have been reduced to a specialist role or out the league by now. Nocioni and deng who play the same position should have been a disaster. The fact they don't have a real power fwd should be a disaster. The fact they signed a declining Ben Wallace who is 6'8" cuz deng looks taller than him should have been a disaster.

Anyway nobody can tell me that the bulls are a well thought out and put together team. They are some lucky bastards. Knicks are gonna burry them next season. Mark my words!
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BlueSeats
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5/11/2007  1:04 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by nixluva:

You guys are real funny, but I think you know exactly what I mean by losing a year under LB. We had to start from scratch to begin this season. That won't happen this year. We'll come in with some things already established. We can look to add on to the gameplan and put in some new wrinkles. We can look to perfect what we started this year. That wasn't possible after LB's season. But go ahead and make jokes. When you're done clowning maybe you can add something substantial to the conversation.

I happen to disagree with your blaming Brown for last season. I blame Isiah's terrible starting rotation.

The one hope we have is that Marbury won't come into camp out of shape and sulking, Francis wont be out there wobbling and sniveling, and Frye and Jeffries wont be confused about which side of the court they're on.

I happen to think the guys who play best with Curry are JC, Lee, Balkman, Malik and possibly Collins. I don't expect all of them to start, but last year none of them did. He was perfectly uncomplimented out there.

I understand your point. Things certainly could've been handled better by Isiah. My point tho is not in disagreeement with yours in that Isiah had to try and figure things out, cuz there wasn't any established rotation that worked. LB never settled on anything and we came into the season a broken team, lacking confidence or any kind of chemistry. That is a set back. You don't want to go into a season like that. LB's job was to set things up and instill order. He didn't do that, but instead created chaos and doubt.

This doesn't absolve Isiah from his own poor decisions, but it made things much harder for him. To start with he had to build up confidence again and he had to try to put something together that would work. Even if LB didn't have great season, if he had at least established SOMETHING this team could've come into this season with something to build off of. At least we'll have that this coming season. That's a source of hope for a better year.



It's fair to say Brown didn't establish anything, but it's also fair to say that things revealed themselves under Brown that Isiah ignored and further mismanaged. Things like Frye not being a good defensive frontcourt partner with Curry, a lack of leadership from our backcourt, weakness at the SF position, poor perimeter defense, high turnovers, difficulty establishing a tempo and point of direction, soft starts and a need for the bench to bail us out, etc.

Isiah preferred to pretend these were all the fault of "lost" confidence under Brown when some of them were physical "truths".

It's convenient that coach Isiah didn't have GM Isiah and his proxy undermining his credibility with the players, so that was one less thing for him to contend with, but if we had a new coach this year we could equally excuse him for having to undo much of the coddling and poor assignments given out by Isiah. So lets just say after 5 coaches in 4 years, consistency in the ranks of coaching on may be a blessing, whoever it comes from.

Masterplan
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5/11/2007  1:06 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

Anyway nobody can tell me that the bulls are a well thought out and put together team. They are some lucky bastards. Knicks are gonna burry them next season. Mark my words!

barring injuries
TrueBlue
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5/11/2007  1:20 PM
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by EnySpree:

Anyway nobody can tell me that the bulls are a well thought out and put together team. They are some lucky bastards. Knicks are gonna burry them next season. Mark my words!

barring injuries

God Willing!
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bigbeast
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5/11/2007  1:24 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by nixluva:

You guys are real funny, but I think you know exactly what I mean by losing a year under LB. We had to start from scratch to begin this season. That won't happen this year. We'll come in with some things already established. We can look to add on to the gameplan and put in some new wrinkles. We can look to perfect what we started this year. That wasn't possible after LB's season. But go ahead and make jokes. When you're done clowning maybe you can add something substantial to the conversation.

I happen to disagree with your blaming Brown for last season. I blame Isiah's terrible starting rotation.

The one hope we have is that Marbury won't come into camp out of shape and sulking, Francis wont be out there wobbling and sniveling, and Frye and Jeffries wont be confused about which side of the court they're on.

I happen to think the guys who play best with Curry are JC, Lee, Balkman, Malik and possibly Collins. I don't expect all of them to start, but last year none of them did. He was perfectly uncomplimented out there.

I understand your point. Things certainly could've been handled better by Isiah. My point tho is not in disagreeement with yours in that Isiah had to try and figure things out, cuz there wasn't any established rotation that worked. LB never settled on anything and we came into the season a broken team, lacking confidence or any kind of chemistry. That is a set back. You don't want to go into a season like that. LB's job was to set things up and instill order. He didn't do that, but instead created chaos and doubt.

This doesn't absolve Isiah from his own poor decisions, but it made things much harder for him. To start with he had to build up confidence again and he had to try to put something together that would work. Even if LB didn't have great season, if he had at least established SOMETHING this team could've come into this season with something to build off of. At least we'll have that this coming season. That's a source of hope for a better year.



It's fair to say Brown didn't establish anything, but it's also fair to say that things revealed themselves under Brown that Isiah ignored and further mismanaged. Things like Frye not being a good defensive frontcourt partner with Curry, a lack of leadership from our backcourt, weakness at the SF position, poor perimeter defense, high turnovers, difficulty establishing a tempo and point of direction, soft starts and a need for the bench to bail us out, etc.Isiah preferred to pretend these were all the fault of "lost" confidence under Brown when some of them were physical "truths".

It's convenient that coach Isiah didn't have GM Isiah and his proxy undermining his credibility with the players, so that was one less thing for him to contend with, but if we had a new coach this year we could equally excuse him for having to undo much of the coddling and poor assignments given out by Isiah. So lets just say after 5 coaches in 4 years, consistency in the ranks of coaching on may be a blessing, whoever it comes from.


Can't argue with that. Fair and accurate.


[Edited by - bigbeast on 05-11-2007 1:25 PM]
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
EnySpree
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5/11/2007  1:26 PM
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by EnySpree:

Anyway nobody can tell me that the bulls are a well thought out and put together team. They are some lucky bastards. Knicks are gonna burry them next season. Mark my words!

barring injuries

If the bulls had lost deng, nocioni, gordan and hinrich down the stretch what would they be able to accomplish? Those players share the same importance on the bulls as lee, Q, marbs and craw on the knicks. So its a valid argument.

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nixluva
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5/11/2007  1:30 PM
Well Isiah did some VERY GOOD things this year too. Despite his mistakes, he kept this team together and fighting for the entire season. Even during tough times there was no fracturing. Guys actually got better during the year and I give Isiah some credit for that. The team as a whole was gradually making improvement up until the major injury hit. Now this doesn't erase the fact that his medical staff was again doing a poor job. It doesn't erase the fact that some of his intial ideas turned out to be less effective than he expected. In particular his use of Jared and Frye. Neither guy ever got it going and provided what you would expect they could bring. But again Guys like Steph and Q were having really good seasons. Curry was a factor. Balkman and then Collins showed their worth. Jamal was actually starting to have a good year. If you remember he had started to look to penetrate more and was making a lot of short runners and jumpers after breaking down the D. He was getting to be unstoppable in that style.

I reallly liked his move of adding Morris. I like his potential. He's the kind of PF we need. He can play Center too. He's got a good base is very agile and quick footed. He can pass and obviously post up. He has a nice little jumper from 15ft in. He just seems like a good prospect for what we need.

We got on Nate a lot, but isiah seemed to be getting thru to him as the season came to an end. He was playing more in control and was starting to finally listen a little more. All we seem to remember is his run ins with Isiah, but don't forget that he had some strong showings after that and was seeming to make some growth. As a sparkplug off the bench I think he's an ideal player. He can heat up quick and doesn't need a lot of minutes. His strong shooting % can be an asset if he can one day learn to think on D. I think he can do it.

So yes there are some things Isiah didn't do a good job with, but I think he also had some good points. I think he learned a lot from this season. Let's not forget that he doesn't have a load of coaching experience yet either, so he's got a lot to learn too.
EnySpree
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5/11/2007  1:44 PM
I'm a little annoyed with the poll results.

Mark my words the knicks will be whoopin on the Bulls next season. the knicks are poisoned with the bad luck raining down from the cloud of negativity by the media and fans. Whatever man. The knicks will be a playoff team next year mark my words.
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Bonn1997
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5/11/2007  2:05 PM
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by EnySpree:

Anyway nobody can tell me that the bulls are a well thought out and put together team. They are some lucky bastards. Knicks are gonna burry them next season. Mark my words!

barring injuries

If the bulls had lost deng, nocioni, gordan and hinrich down the stretch what would they be able to accomplish? Those players share the same importance on the bulls as lee, Q, marbs and craw on the knicks. So its a valid argument.

That's not really a fair analogy. We lost David Lee and then some role players who are inferior to all the Bulls' players you're listing.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 05-11-2007 2:06 PM]
Bulls' future vs. Knicks

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