Yes, because developing nothing but role players is a surefire way to a championship.

Clear plan would be to make a massive push to get under the cap, retain a few young players, keep our own picks and try to sign a star.

Posted by franco12:

Plan A- because you can actually trade guys like Lee, Frye, Nate, Balkman & Collins and get good value back

As opposed to Francis, Marbury and others

Yeah, so it comes down to how much you either want to or have to sign a player. Young guys, unless a bonified star, won't be asking for too much. Vets usually ask for more, whether they are very good or not. And of course, a real' star would want the bucks, or else. So yeah, the young guys would make sense in that way. You'll have your options open.

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by islesfan:

Yes, because developing nothing but role players is a surefire way to a championship.

The Utah Jazz are doing fine with a team full of so called Role players. The Bulls made it to the 2nd rd, without a superstar.

Quite a twist. The Jazz have Andre Kirilenko, who up until this past year was considered among the top players in the league. He's stepped up big for them in the playoffs. They have Carlos Boozer, who as much as I hate to admit, is moving very close to being among the elite PFs. They have Mehmet Okur who is one of the top centers in the league. They have Deron Williams who has just been great.

The Bulls are a balanced team of stars. Their fourth best player is better than our best player.

And so far, neither one of these teams has won a championship, so how can you use that as evidence!?

(Granted, the Jazz have a good shot of slipping into the WCF, since the Mavs were upset.)

[Edited by - Solace on May 09 2007 09:28 AM]

The Have been the bench mark for the last 9 years first starting with the Twin Towers and then moving into a euro type team. Obi One Ginobli is not superstar but at his peak was a solid second team type allstar.

That team was about chemistry and role players all buying in. One quiet superstar in duncan for the last few years.

Miami was all about shaq and the emergence if Wade to form a great duo with vets wiling to buy in for at least the playoff run. Same for the Shaq-Kobe Lakers.

The Collective known as the Pistons who like the Spurs are built to win with solid team concept.

I am very impressed with Utah and on paper they looked great. We can now see the potential. But all the winning teams must have a ball controller with a brain. Deron, Parker, Nash, Lebron,Kidd, Baron, Heinrich and Billups all advanced. Heinrich is limited and Kidd does not have the Guns to go further.

In my mind, cloudy as it may be, we should be looking at that ball controller fist and formost.

I'd have to say Mardy is the best one on the team and thats way too much praise to lay on him. Marbury and Francis are a disaster, and Nate is just moronic with the ball. Craw is our second best option but his job is too really jack up shots.

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by islesfan:

Yes, because developing nothing but role players is a surefire way to a championship.

The Utah Jazz are doing fine with a team full of so called Role players. The Bulls made it to the 2nd rd, without a superstar. Besides the Knicks have more than just a bunch of role players. You can't say for sure just how good some of these players will be, but we already have an idea with Lee and Curry that they already have a chance to be more than that. Honestly if you actually spent a little time watching and appreciating your own team, instead of lusting after other players on other teams, you'd see that this team has some good young players and that many of them haven't come close to peaking yet.

We have 3 young guys in Balkman, Collins and Morris, who we don't know yet what they'll end up being. We have another kid coming in this draft. Since we're 2 years away from cap flexibility, why not just go with the young guys and see what we have, before we go and pay for some more used up vets? Most of those guys have about 3 years of top level play left in them, if that. With these young guys we have a chance to have them be part of the team for much longer than that. Later when we have a better idea of what this team has, we can use whatever cap space we have for a FA Stud. If that's what we want to do at that time.

Dude we have a team of role players because if you put them on a championship squad none of them would start. Every other team can make the same statement you made of seeing how good their players can become from potential shown. You say some of the most Clicheick(sp?) things. And who are the used up vets that we've paid for you're referring to.


[Edited by - TrueBlue on 05-09-2007 09:11 AM]

Posted by TrueBlue:

Dude we have a team of role players because if you put them on a championship squad none of them would start. Every other team can make the same statement you made of seeing how good their players can be become from potential shown. And who are the used up vets that were paid for you're referring to.

It's not about how they be compared on other rosters. What matters is how they mesh here. Since we're still developing many of the guys it's hard to make complete judgments on many of the guys just yet. If we never allow any players to develop here how can we ever build a team? It's not about whether other teams can make similar claims about their talent, that's a given since there are always some young players on just about any team. The thing is that we have a lot of guys who have only been in the league for 2 or less years, so what do you do if they haven't become All Stars in their 2nd year, get rid of all of them?

As for the used up vet comment, I was speaking of guys like JO. We don't need to make such a deal at this point. Not when we're 2 years from being able to clear up Cap space. We can still make advancement with the players we already have and small additions. Then when the timing is better we can make a big move. If we do it now, that kills the future cap situation for no good reason. Right now all the huge contracts are up in 2 years, so why do we need to add JO who will be 30 in 2 years? If the Knicks don't care about having cap flexibility then they'll try to make a deal. If we add him I hope we don't give up anything more than Francis and Frye. I just don't want to give up anything more than that at this point. My preference is to leave him in Indy and look toward the future.

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Dude we have a team of role players because if you put them on a championship squad none of them would start. Every other team can make the same statement you made of seeing how good their players can be become from potential shown. And who are the used up vets that were paid for you're referring to.

It's not about how they be compared on other rosters. What matters is how they mesh here. Since we're still developing many of the guys it's hard to make complete judgments on many of the guys just yet. If we never allow any players to develop here how can we ever build a team? It's not about whether other teams can make similar claims about their talent, that's a given since there are always some young players on just about any team. The thing is that we have a lot of guys who have only been in the league for 2 or less years, so what do you do if they haven't become All Stars in their 2nd year, get rid of all of them?

As for the used up vet comment, I was speaking of guys like JO. We don't need to make such a deal at this point. Not when we're 2 years from being able to clear up Cap space. We can still make advancement with the players we already have and small additions. Then when the timing is better we can make a big move. If we do it now, that kills the future cap situation for no good reason. Right now all the huge contracts are up in 2 years, so why do we need to add JO who will be 30 in 2 years? If the Knicks don't care about having cap flexibility then they'll try to make a deal. If we add him I hope we don't give up anything more than Francis and Frye. I just don't want to give up anything more than that at this point. My preference is to leave him in Indy and look toward the future.

Sorry you're not getting off that easy you said "Some More Used Up Vets". "Some More" implies we've already acquired one or more. Who are they? Start naming them. I'd like to point out your sudden tune of talking 2yrs down the road like this is some kind of newfound Nixluva vision is hilarious. You totally drink flavor colored sugar water. Grunwald mentioned cap flexibility 2yrs from now, Dolan has tightened the spending strings and now you're on board. But in all honesty, you're trying to buy time with your own expectations, just like ISAYUGH has done over the yrs. And to say let's see where we're at 2yrs from now is pathetic. Shouldn't we already have answers? Curry got 4-5yrs to see what he could give the Bulls and now you want to give another 4yrs to see what he can give us? Why do Knick fans have to wait so long for the unknown? The so called Haters wanted to do the Nixluva Visionary a long time ago, except ours came with "No Buying Of Time Attached"


[Edited by - TrueBlue on 05-09-2007 09:45 AM]

Posted by Solace:

Posted by nixluva:

Solace, you know what I mean. Teams that rely heavily on a Superstar player or 2 aren't exactly what the Jazz and Bulls are. You can say that they have some REALLY GOOD players, but you can't say they're the type of players that carry teams offensively like a LeBron or Wade.

We have players on this team that are developing into top of the league players in certain categories and I think we'll be better off continuing the process for the next 2 seasons. Adding JO, doesn't fix everything, tho he would improve the talent level, he's also going to be hard to fit in with Curry on offense. We'd do better with a PF who did all the dirty work behind Curry and didn't need the ball to be effective. A muscled up Lee might be a good example. Lee hits the boards and finishes well. He's not a shot blocker and isn't big enough to handle the bigger PF's in the league, which is the only real reason I think Isiah is still looking for a PF. Physically R. Morris is more the right fit, but who knows if he can provide the Reb, Def/shotblocking we need next to Curry? At this point I see no reason to be hasty. Let's see how things shake out. Being hasty is how we ended up with Jared and Francis.

No. The criteria is championship. Period. The criteria isn't youth. The criteria isn't that you hated Layden. The criteria isn't the Bulls or Jazz, because neither one has won a championship yet. The criteria isn't the Golden State Warriors. Furthermore, all of those teams are BETTER than us from the ground up. They were all built over more solid fundamentals and balanced rosters. If we balance the roster, and fill in the deficiencies, do we have a shot to max out at a 50 win team? YES. Will we win a championship? NO. This is not a youth issue, this is not a potential issue, this is not a, maybe if we make x, y and z trades issue. If any of those things happen, great! Are they likely? No. It's about putting yourself in a position to have a shot.

But, quite honestly, if we're building around Ey Curry, we're f'd from the start. That's like building around Oliver Miller.

Exactly it's ludicrous for any NYK fan to tell another we can't compare our team to other teams of high standards. He keeps doing this ish. We couldn't compare our team with the Raptors this yr in one breath, in that same breath according to him he'll make sure to tell you he's not impressed by the Raptors. It's like WTH? Bottomline if Lee and Curry are the 2 players to hang our hat on then every other team in the league can hang their hat on 2 players. We have a team of role players and that's a fact, none of them would start on a championship contending team this yr.