Posted by highfivesucka:

doug collins said after the game that the Lakers will probably have to gamble on an "overpaid player with a big contract" to please Kobe...

....Steve....Francis...!

and I'd like to add that Odom was a warrior yesterday, the guy had injuries out the wazoo plus like you said all his personal problems and he put up a 30 point game.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by tkf:

Kobe is a supreme talent, bue he can't make scrubs better, the fact that this lakers team can make the playoffs in the west and be better than an 8 seed is a testament to his greatness. He needs help. Kobe has about 4 peak years left, lakers need to get him Jason kidd and or jermane Oneal..... The lakers are garbage outside of kobe and odom, You can't make those guys better.

Stop banging on kobe...... He is a jackass, but also the best player in the league, lakers need to get him some help. True he ran shaq out of town, but lets be honest, shaq got lazy, came into camp out of shape, fat, all kobe wanted was the same level of commitment from shaq... Too bad, those two were great together.... I have no problem with shaq, he is great and so is kobe...

You don't run the most dominant player at the time out of town just because he's overweight. I mean what were Shaq's numbers while he was fat, pretty damn good. Last time I checked Shaq has 3 MVP championship trophies, Kobe has zero. What Kobe should have done is befriend him and help Shaq motivate himself. Just tell Shaq if we want more rings I need you to be Diesel and let me sit on the throne and see what I can do. If I fail along the way I turn the throne back over to you. And if we're going to come to the conclusion his teammates are scrubs then Kobe is in the same boat as any other lone star lead team that hasn't had much success. T-Mac, Vince, Paul, A.I. Honestly can anyone dispute the team A.I. led to the Finals in 2001 is significantly better than the Lakers current squad?


A.I.(very very good) counter part Kobe(greatest on the planet now)
Eric Snow(at the time and still is very scrubbish) counter part Smush Parker
Aaron Mckie(at the time and still very scrubbish retire already) counter part Luke Walton
Raja Bell(very very very scrubbish at the time) counter part Mo Evans
Motumbo(good) counter part Kwame Brown
Gieger(LOL!) counter part Bynum
Lynch(decent at the time) counter part Turiaf
Tyrone Hill(scrubbish very very very ugly at the time and still is) counter part Lamar Odom
Jumaine Jones (scrub has played for all 30teams since this Finals appearance) counter part Brian Cook
Kevin Ollie (the actual definition of a Scrub when looked up in the dictionary) counterpart Farmar


The way I see it the Lakers squad is better talent wise and when you compare the coaches Phil to Tank Magoo they win by a landslide.


I think the reality of this all Phil are Kobe are good but they are extremely overrated and have been exposed every since Shaq.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 05-03-2007 10:32 AM]

Posted by tkf:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by tkf:

Kobe is a supreme talent, bue he can't make scrubs better, the fact that this lakers team can make the playoffs in the west and be better than an 8 seed is a testament to his greatness. He needs help. Kobe has about 4 peak years left, lakers need to get him Jason kidd and or jermane Oneal..... The lakers are garbage outside of kobe and odom, You can't make those guys better.

Stop banging on kobe...... He is a jackass, but also the best player in the league, lakers need to get him some help. True he ran shaq out of town, but lets be honest, shaq got lazy, came into camp out of shape, fat, all kobe wanted was the same level of commitment from shaq... Too bad, those two were great together.... I have no problem with shaq, he is great and so is kobe...

You don't run the most dominant player at the time out of town just because he's overweight. I mean what were Shaq's numbers while he was fat, pretty damn good. Last time I checked Shaq has 3 MVP championship trophies, Kobe has zero. What Kobe should have done is befriend him and help Shaq motivate himself. Just tell Shaq if we want more rings I need you to be Diesel and let me sit on the throne and see what I can do. If I fail along the way I turn the throne back over to you. And if we're going to come to the conclusion his teammates are scrubs then Kobe is in the same boat as any other lone star lead team that hasn't had much success. T-Mac, Vince, Paul, A.I. Honestly can anyone dispute the team A.I. led to the Finals in 2001 is significantly better than the Lakers current squad?


A.I.(very very good) counter part Kobe(greatest on the planet now)
Eric Snow(at the time and still is very scrubbish) counter part Smush Parker
Aaron Mckie(at the time and still very scrubbish retire already) counter part Luke Walton
Raja Bell(very very very scrubbish at the time) counter part Mo Evans
Motumbo(good) counter part Kwame Brown
Gieger(LOL!) counter part Bynum
Lynch(decent at the time) counter part Turiaf
Tyrone Hill(scrubbish very very very ugly at the time and still is) counter part Lamar Odom
Jumaine Jones (scrub has played for all 30teams since this Finals appearance) counter part Brian Cook
Kevin Ollie (the actual definition of a Scrub when looked up in the dictionary) counterpart Farmar


The way I see it the Lakers squad is better talent wise and when you compare the coaches Phil to Tank Magoo they win by a landslide.


I think the reality of this all Phil are Kobe are good but they are extremely overrated and have been exposed every since Shaq.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 05-03-2007 10:32 AM]

That is the past, kobe won 3 rings with shaq. shaq wanted big time extension, lakers chose young star(kobe) over older and declining star(shaq) I am not saying I would have done the deal considering the parts they got back, but it is, what it is...... Kobe is in LA, he needs help, he is the best player in the league.... Get him jason kid, or JO or GArnett..

Posted by BlueSeats:

I blame Shaq in the kobe feud. Early on Shaq gave Kobe a "this is my team sonny" talk and killed any chance of chemistry. They tried all the big brother crap after that but Shaq's ego was insurmountable, and he knows it, that's why his first order of business upon landing in Miami was to make friends with Wade, tell him he's the best player he's ever played with and it's Wade's team.

Shaq and Kobe weren't going to be winning anymore, Shaq wanted a big extension, Phil wanted one too, and Kobe was a free agent. Too much money was required all at the same time and it just wasn't worth it for such a dysfunctional situation.

For all Kobe's faults, I think he's a better leader at whatever his age is than Shaq was. If the Lakers draft someone as talented as Shaq or Kobe, will Kobe's first order of business be to alienate him? If he does then we can compare his leadership to Shaq's.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by tkf:

A.I.(very very good) counter part Kobe(greatest on the planet now)
Eric Snow(at the time and still is very scrubbish) counter part Smush Parker
Aaron Mckie(at the time and still very scrubbish retire already) counter part Luke Walton
Raja Bell(very very very scrubbish at the time) counter part Mo Evans
Motumbo(good) counter part Kwame Brown
Gieger(LOL!) counter part Bynum
Lynch(decent at the time) counter part Turiaf
Tyrone Hill(scrubbish very very very ugly at the time and still is) counter part Lamar Odom
Jumaine Jones (scrub has played for all 30teams since this Finals appearance) counter part Brian Cook
Kevin Ollie (the actual definition of a Scrub when looked up in the dictionary) counterpart Farmar

Ollie, snow, Deke, Mckie were all veterans and Mutombo was the best defensive player in the league during those years, yes that is better than what kobe has, a bunch of young, very average players, I mean for christ sakes they had shammond williams out there playing big minutes, odom is enigmatic, walton is average, kwame is no where in the same galaxy as deke was back then, come on, big difference.. Kobe would cream to have Snow, Mckie and deke on his team now, all 6 years younger!

You are making excuses and we're talking about getting out of the first round vs going all the way to the Finals. On Paper those squads are equal. The difference between those squads the A.I. led team played defense. Teams that don't play defense is a reflection of lack of effort, commitment, leadership, and coaching. Also the way the game has changed the Lakers athleticism would probably give A.I.'s team some serious trouble because they were lacking in that area.

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BlueSeats:

I blame Shaq in the kobe feud. Early on Shaq gave Kobe a "this is my team sonny" talk and killed any chance of chemistry. They tried all the big brother crap after that but Shaq's ego was insurmountable, and he knows it, that's why his first order of business upon landing in Miami was to make friends with Wade, tell him he's the best player he's ever played with and it's Wade's team.

Shaq and Kobe weren't going to be winning anymore, Shaq wanted a big extension, Phil wanted one too, and Kobe was a free agent. Too much money was required all at the same time and it just wasn't worth it for such a dysfunctional situation.

For all Kobe's faults, I think he's a better leader at whatever his age is than Shaq was. If the Lakers draft someone as talented as Shaq or Kobe, will Kobe's first order of business be to alienate him? If he does then we can compare his leadership to Shaq's.

Not exactly true. That season before the trade Shaq mainly took credit for bringing in Payton and Malone so yes he was in essence saying it's still my team but at the same time when Kobe was having all that trial trouble Shaq told everyone Kobe is the baddest, mentally toughest player on the planet and no other player could have done what he did that yr. He said it on several occasions that yr unwarranted. But even then, Magic a person very close to the situation said Kobe should have reached out to Shaq and Kobe earlier this yr said he regretted how he treated Shaq. Let's not forget before that season even started he snitched on Shaq from the rape trial, so why on earth would Shaq cater to him?

True, you're talking about things that happened years after the crime. Shaq was stepping on Kobe since '97-98. That stuff isn't necessary, it's ego driven.

Willis Reed could have done the same to Clyde, but then Clyde probably wouldn't have revered him like he does, and that Knicks team wouldn't be known as one of the best chemistry teams on and off the court.

Yes and No. Kobe was no saint. Phil wrote a book that told all. He brought up that Shaq was an Asss and lazy but he wanted Kobe traded and there's the difference. Who's more repsected around the league Shaq or Kobe? Even if Phil was off in left field with that request, Kobe drove people to want to feel that way Tex Winters included. Another thing, how come they haven't attracted any FA with the MLE since Shaq's exodus? Every great player or at least most of them are jerks, even to their teammates. Read up on some things Steve Kerr had to say about how Jordan treated them during their title runs. Magic is another example to look at, he said even though he played great basketball and was viewed by many as the Lakers best player first couple yrs in the league he still felt it was Kareem's team and wouldn't take that away from him until Kareem said so.


Look every player needs help no matter how good they are and Kobe realizes this, along with everyone else. The point I'm making, whatever decisions are made from here on out will require Kobe to change as an individual. We'll see if he does like you said.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 05-03-2007 11:42 AM]

Posted by tkf:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by tkf:

A.I.(very very good) counter part Kobe(greatest on the planet now)
Eric Snow(at the time and still is very scrubbish) counter part Smush Parker
Aaron Mckie(at the time and still very scrubbish retire already) counter part Luke Walton
Raja Bell(very very very scrubbish at the time) counter part Mo Evans
Motumbo(good) counter part Kwame Brown
Gieger(LOL!) counter part Bynum
Lynch(decent at the time) counter part Turiaf
Tyrone Hill(scrubbish very very very ugly at the time and still is) counter part Lamar Odom
Jumaine Jones (scrub has played for all 30teams since this Finals appearance) counter part Brian Cook
Kevin Ollie (the actual definition of a Scrub when looked up in the dictionary) counterpart Farmar

Ollie, snow, Deke, Mckie were all veterans and Mutombo was the best defensive player in the league during those years, yes that is better than what kobe has, a bunch of young, very average players, I mean for christ sakes they had shammond williams out there playing big minutes, odom is enigmatic, walton is average, kwame is no where in the same galaxy as deke was back then, come on, big difference.. Kobe would cream to have Snow, Mckie and deke on his team now, all 6 years younger!

You are making excuses and we're talking about getting out of the first round vs going all the way to the Finals. On Paper those squads are equal. The difference between those squads the A.I. led team played defense. Teams that don't play defense is a reflection of lack of effort, commitment, leadership, and coaching. Also the way the game has changed the Lakers athleticism would probably give A.I.'s team some serious trouble because they were lacking in that area.

excuse? come on, on paper and on the floor and anyother place, Dikembe, snow, Mckie in their primes is better than any combo the lakers have at this point..... End of story! Deke was a top defensive player in the NBA, snow was a defensive stud PG, Mckie was a nice two way player, geiger was good off the bench...

The lakers have no one on that team, even with a resume that would come close to Mutombo, of course with the exception of Kobe....

You said I am making excuses and then you point to the teams being equal on paper....LOL.. the games are not played that way.... heck Jumane Jones would start on the lakers right now! The sixers also had a young raja bell, they were a more talented team than these lakers..