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Raptors not ready for primetime
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nixluva
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4/29/2007  9:28 PM
I was asked to give my assessment of Toronto in another thread and I said I wasn't that impressed. I think Toronto is proving my point. I felt that they didn't have enough guys that could create their own shots and this made them easier to defend. They also only have Bosh as their bigman scoring threat and he's not a deep post up player. So there's no inside game and thus it again makes them easier to defend. The make up of their team being so full of stand still shooters but light on guys that demand a double team, is a big problem in the playoffs. In comparison with other teams in the playoffs you can see they aren't up to the same level in terms of an effective offensive attack for playoff basketball. When you take away there primary attack they have nothing else to fall back on. They need a SG and SF that can handle the ball and take their man off the dribble from time to time. The playoffs will expose that whereas in the regular season you can get away with it.

It's for these reasons that I think we're on a much better track in terms of eventualy being a good playoff team. We actually do have breakdown players. We lack the shooting that Tor has, but I believe that we can rectify that this summer. Think we can add a shooter and also continue to develop some of our young players shooting to more acceptable levels. The thing is that we won't be stuck with one style of attack. Of course we have other issues like D and TO's to fix as well. I think that with more Balkman and Collins we will get better in those areas.

Toronto has a lot to fix as well despite the good regular season. It will be interesting to see how both teams address their needs this summer.

[Edited by - nixluva on 04-29-2007 9:30 PM]
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TrueBlue
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4/29/2007  9:55 PM
Knicks not even elligible for Primetime yet alone be ready for it.


Toronto is getting exposed by a battle tested playoff team. They'll grow and learn from it.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 04-29-2007 8:57 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
highfivesucka
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4/29/2007  9:56 PM
yea this is basically what I've been saying all year long: they are like PHX their 1st year they got Nash: built to win regular season games because you can sweep your weaknesses under the rug. you play a new team every night so your deficiencies never show up and you win a ton of games camping behind the 3 point line, not rebounding, and not defending. bargnani is still young and garbajosa is injured but sooner or later the raps will find out having a team full of soft, jumpshooting 7 footers isn't going to win them a championship.
^precocious neophyte.
Vmart
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4/29/2007  9:59 PM
For the Raptors playoffs is a learning experience. For the Knicks regular season was their learning experience just as the Bulls had to learn to win in the playoff the Raptors will have to do the same. Playoff experience is after all playoff experience it goes a long way.
nixluva
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4/29/2007  10:14 PM
Posted by highfivesucka:

yea this is basically what I've been saying all year long: they are like PHX their 1st year they got Nash: built to win regular season games because you can sweep your weaknesses under the rug. you play a new team every night so your deficiencies never show up and you win a ton of games camping behind the 3 point line, not rebounding, and not defending. bargnani is still young and garbajosa is injured but sooner or later the raps will find out having a team full of soft, jumpshooting 7 footers isn't going to win them a championship.

Thank you for actually UNDERSTANDING what the heck i'm talking about. This isn't just a case of Tor needing experience. They have some serious roster weaknesses. You can't win in the playoffs with only one real penetrator and bunch of soft jumpshooting bigs.

TrueBlue, as for the Knicks we could just as easily have been in these playoffs and you know that. It's not like we had no shot. We all know what happened. COlangelo did a smart thing in adding TJ and the Euro League guys with experience. This excelerrated the teams advancement this year. I'm just not convinced they're gonna make a similar improvement next year. They look like a team that will top out soon unless they make some important changes/additions.
tkf
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4/29/2007  11:15 PM
Posted by highfivesucka:

yea this is basically what I've been saying all year long: they are like PHX their 1st year they got Nash: built to win regular season games because you can sweep your weaknesses under the rug. you play a new team every night so your deficiencies never show up and you win a ton of games camping behind the 3 point line, not rebounding, and not defending. bargnani is still young and garbajosa is injured but sooner or later the raps will find out having a team full of soft, jumpshooting 7 footers isn't going to win them a championship.

I agree and history is on our side......

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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4/29/2007  11:16 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:

Knicks not even elligible for Primetime yet alone be ready for it.


Toronto is getting exposed by a battle tested playoff team. They'll grow and learn from it.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 04-29-2007 8:57 PM]


Learn what? that they are easily exposed in post season?
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
djsunyc
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4/29/2007  11:34 PM
raps will only win a championship if bosh or bargnani become a top 5 nba player. that's pretty much how any team wins a title, if their franchise player becomes an MVP contender. only team to disprove that is the 03/04 pistons (similar to how the bulls built their current team).

nixluva hit it on the head, not enough players to go 1 on 1 and that's needed in the playoffs. the young raps have come up against a healthy nets team that got healthy at the right time and are surging (possibly all the way to the ecf's).

heavily dissapointed in bosh. not a good showing at all. what a raptors fan must take away from it is that he's 22. ford is 24. and bargnani is 21. and they learn that they all have a long way to go in their development and dedicate themselves to improving their game this summer.

colangelo knows what the deal is. he is not afraid to make moves and he will make moves.

the best big man for the raps is rasho (the experienced vet) and jkidd is dominating and has taken over the series.

raps don't even look like they belong in the playoffs. i just hope they win game 5 and push it to 6.

i do not expect mitchell to be back next season and the new coach will either be iavaroni or a euro guy.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 04-29-2007 11:39 PM]
Bonn1997
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4/30/2007  12:06 AM
With Kidd, Carter, and RJ healthy, the Nets are a legit #2 or #3 seed. They're simply a better team than the Raptors and nearly all of the east.
nixluva
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4/30/2007  1:13 AM
When it comes to building teams, there's a lot to consider. You can be guilty of putting together a GREAT regular season team but one that isn't suited to the kind of BB that's played in the Playoffs. Teams will be prepared for what you do and they will take it away. If you don't have any clear advantages at a couple of positions, then you'll end up in trouble. Teams play MUCH harder on D in the playoffs and that level of intensity is new to the Raps, so i'll give them a little bit of a pass, but ultimately I feel that Colangelo has failed to put together a team that is built for the playoffs.

In comparison if Isiah can simply add the shooter we need and somehow get a shotblocker or develop Morris into enough of a shotblocker to make a difference, then we'll have a much better team in terms of playoff BB. I say this cuz we have a more playoff styled team. We have SEVERAL guys that can beat their man 1 on 1. We have a true post player and more capable bigs than Toronto. If we can get Frye back on track and develop Morris, we'll have a deep group of frontcourt players. We already are one of the best rebounding teams in the league and if we can add more defensive toughness, we'd be ready to take on any team in the playoffs. Mark my words, we're more on target than it might seem.
islesfan
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4/30/2007  1:18 AM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by TrueBlue:

Knicks not even elligible for Primetime yet alone be ready for it.


Toronto is getting exposed by a battle tested playoff team. They'll grow and learn from it.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 04-29-2007 8:57 PM]


Learn what? that they are easily exposed in post season?

So a young Raptors team isn't going to learn anything from a playoff series against a veteran playoff team, that if healthy would have been the 2nd or 3rd seed but the Knicks learned something from winning 33 games and missing the playoffs because they couldn't beat some really bad teams at home down the stretch?

Yeah, I take the Raptors learning experience every day of the week.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TrueBlue
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4/30/2007  1:20 AM
Posted by nixluva:

When it comes to building teams, there's a lot to consider. You can be guilty of putting together a GREAT regular season team but one that isn't suited to the kind of BB that's played in the Playoffs. Teams will be prepared for what you do and they will take it away. If you don't have any clear advantages at a couple of positions, then you'll end up in trouble. Teams play MUCH harder on D in the playoffs and that level of intensity is new to the Raps, so i'll give them a little bit of a pass, but ultimately I feel that Colangelo has failed to put together a team that is built for the playoffs.

In comparison if Isiah can simply add the shooter we need and somehow get a shotblocker or develop Morris into enough of a shotblocker to make a difference, then we'll have a much better team in terms of playoff BB. I say this cuz we have a more playoff styled team. We have SEVERAL guys that can beat their man 1 on 1. We have a true post player and more capable bigs than Toronto. If we can get Frye back on track and develop Morris, we'll have a deep group of frontcourt players. We already are one of the best rebounding teams in the league and if we can add more defensive toughness, we'd be ready to take on any team in the playoffs. Mark my words, we're more on target than it might seem.


Until we get to the playoffs you have no idea what kind of team we are or will be. I could see if we made the playoffs with the current young core and had a nice showing but we haven't. One could easily say if we suffer an injury similar to the Warriors had in Baron Davis with Marbury during next season we're dangerously close to being a Top 3 lottery team. We need an injury free season and have to make the playoffs in order to know what we are. Until then just keep quiet seriously



[Edited by - TrueBlue on 04-30-2007 12:35 AM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
islesfan
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4/30/2007  1:21 AM
Posted by nixluva:

When it comes to building teams, there's a lot to consider. You can be guilty of putting together a GREAT regular season team but one that isn't suited to the kind of BB that's played in the Playoffs. Teams will be prepared for what you do and they will take it away. If you don't have any clear advantages at a couple of positions, then you'll end up in trouble. Teams play MUCH harder on D in the playoffs and that level of intensity is new to the Raps, so i'll give them a little bit of a pass, but ultimately I feel that Colangelo has failed to put together a team that is built for the playoffs.

In comparison if Isiah can simply add the shooter we need and somehow get a shotblocker or develop Morris into enough of a shotblocker to make a difference, then we'll have a much better team in terms of playoff BB. I say this cuz we have a more playoff styled team. We have SEVERAL guys that can beat their man 1 on 1. We have a true post player and more capable bigs than Toronto. If we can get Frye back on track and develop Morris, we'll have a deep group of frontcourt players. We already are one of the best rebounding teams in the league and if we can add more defensive toughness, we'd be ready to take on any team in the playoffs. Mark my words, we're more on target than it might seem.

So all the Knicks have to do is "simply" add a shooter and shotblocker and all of a sudden this 33 win team is ready to take on ANY team in the playoffs???

You on crack boy?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
nixluva
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4/30/2007  1:32 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by nixluva:

When it comes to building teams, there's a lot to consider. You can be guilty of putting together a GREAT regular season team but one that isn't suited to the kind of BB that's played in the Playoffs. Teams will be prepared for what you do and they will take it away. If you don't have any clear advantages at a couple of positions, then you'll end up in trouble. Teams play MUCH harder on D in the playoffs and that level of intensity is new to the Raps, so i'll give them a little bit of a pass, but ultimately I feel that Colangelo has failed to put together a team that is built for the playoffs.

In comparison if Isiah can simply add the shooter we need and somehow get a shotblocker or develop Morris into enough of a shotblocker to make a difference, then we'll have a much better team in terms of playoff BB. I say this cuz we have a more playoff styled team. We have SEVERAL guys that can beat their man 1 on 1. We have a true post player and more capable bigs than Toronto. If we can get Frye back on track and develop Morris, we'll have a deep group of frontcourt players. We already are one of the best rebounding teams in the league and if we can add more defensive toughness, we'd be ready to take on any team in the playoffs. Mark my words, we're more on target than it might seem.

So all the Knicks have to do is "simply" add a shooter and shotblocker and all of a sudden this 33 win team is ready to take on ANY team in the playoffs???

You on crack boy?

As usual you're oversimplifying my point. You know that i've said in other threads that there are other factors. The main point is that this team is BETTER than the 33 wins we had this year and you FREAKIN KNOW IT!!! You can keep trying to act like you really think this team is that bad and that far off, but you KNOW that isn't true. Just watching the games you can see that we're not far off from putting it together. It's not like the competition was the reason we did poorly at times. It was mostly our own mistakes that caused our problems. Things that we can fix and it's more likely than not that we WILL add a shooter and we will likely continue to develop as a team. You see teams grow from year to year and this team will be no different. We will be together as a unit again and the chemistry should continue to build. That's what most good teams do as they move from the early stages to a constant playoff team. You want to have us believe that this team can't get there and you're DEAD WRONG!!!
Anji
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4/30/2007  1:38 AM
I think the Raptors drew the worst team for them to play. And they also have too many jumpshooting bigmen. They need more talent to play like the "warriors". Parker& Garba what ever& Graham are not good enough to allow Bosh and Bargnani shoot jump shots. And what ever shooting plus they have with all this shooters they pretty much give it all back because Ford is a shooter.


Raptors need to tweak their lineup just a little bit with a couple of slashers that can shoot. Maybe Gerald Wallace and Pertius is exactly what they need.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
islesfan
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4/30/2007  1:49 AM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by nixluva:

When it comes to building teams, there's a lot to consider. You can be guilty of putting together a GREAT regular season team but one that isn't suited to the kind of BB that's played in the Playoffs. Teams will be prepared for what you do and they will take it away. If you don't have any clear advantages at a couple of positions, then you'll end up in trouble. Teams play MUCH harder on D in the playoffs and that level of intensity is new to the Raps, so i'll give them a little bit of a pass, but ultimately I feel that Colangelo has failed to put together a team that is built for the playoffs.

In comparison if Isiah can simply add the shooter we need and somehow get a shotblocker or develop Morris into enough of a shotblocker to make a difference, then we'll have a much better team in terms of playoff BB. I say this cuz we have a more playoff styled team. We have SEVERAL guys that can beat their man 1 on 1. We have a true post player and more capable bigs than Toronto. If we can get Frye back on track and develop Morris, we'll have a deep group of frontcourt players. We already are one of the best rebounding teams in the league and if we can add more defensive toughness, we'd be ready to take on any team in the playoffs. Mark my words, we're more on target than it might seem.

So all the Knicks have to do is "simply" add a shooter and shotblocker and all of a sudden this 33 win team is ready to take on ANY team in the playoffs???

You on crack boy?

As usual you're oversimplifying my point. You know that i've said in other threads that there are other factors. The main point is that this team is BETTER than the 33 wins we had this year and you FREAKIN KNOW IT!!! You can keep trying to act like you really think this team is that bad and that far off, but you KNOW that isn't true. Just watching the games you can see that we're not far off from putting it together. It's not like the competition was the reason we did poorly at times. It was mostly our own mistakes that caused our problems. Things that we can fix and it's more likely than not that we WILL add a shooter and we will likely continue to develop as a team. You see teams grow from year to year and this team will be no different. We will be together as a unit again and the chemistry should continue to build. That's what most good teams do as they move from the early stages to a constant playoff team. You want to have us believe that this team can't get there and you're DEAD WRONG!!!

LOL Yeah, I'm the one oversimplifying things.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bonn1997
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4/30/2007  6:44 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by nixluva:

When it comes to building teams, there's a lot to consider. You can be guilty of putting together a GREAT regular season team but one that isn't suited to the kind of BB that's played in the Playoffs. Teams will be prepared for what you do and they will take it away. If you don't have any clear advantages at a couple of positions, then you'll end up in trouble. Teams play MUCH harder on D in the playoffs and that level of intensity is new to the Raps, so i'll give them a little bit of a pass, but ultimately I feel that Colangelo has failed to put together a team that is built for the playoffs.

In comparison if Isiah can simply add the shooter we need and somehow get a shotblocker or develop Morris into enough of a shotblocker to make a difference, then we'll have a much better team in terms of playoff BB. I say this cuz we have a more playoff styled team. We have SEVERAL guys that can beat their man 1 on 1. We have a true post player and more capable bigs than Toronto. If we can get Frye back on track and develop Morris, we'll have a deep group of frontcourt players. We already are one of the best rebounding teams in the league and if we can add more defensive toughness, we'd be ready to take on any team in the playoffs. Mark my words, we're more on target than it might seem.

So all the Knicks have to do is "simply" add a shooter and shotblocker and all of a sudden this 33 win team is ready to take on ANY team in the playoffs???

You on crack boy?

As usual you're oversimplifying my point. You know that i've said in other threads that there are other factors. The main point is that this team is BETTER than the 33 wins we had this year and you FREAKIN KNOW IT!!! You can keep trying to act like you really think this team is that bad and that far off, but you KNOW that isn't true. Just watching the games you can see that we're not far off from putting it together. It's not like the competition was the reason we did poorly at times. It was mostly our own mistakes that caused our problems. Things that we can fix and it's more likely than not that we WILL add a shooter and we will likely continue to develop as a team. You see teams grow from year to year and this team will be no different. We will be together as a unit again and the chemistry should continue to build. That's what most good teams do as they move from the early stages to a constant playoff team. You want to have us believe that this team can't get there and you're DEAD WRONG!!!

LOL Yeah, I'm the one oversimplifying things.
Unfortunately we're not going to have to worry for a long time about whether or not the Knicks would be a good playoff team.
playa2
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4/30/2007  8:44 AM
Raps were a real team before Garbojosa and barganni went down, Gabojosa was a 30 yr euro old rookie who might have been a guy younger players looked up to for leadership especially barganni.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
TheGame
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4/30/2007  8:56 AM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by nixluva:

When it comes to building teams, there's a lot to consider. You can be guilty of putting together a GREAT regular season team but one that isn't suited to the kind of BB that's played in the Playoffs. Teams will be prepared for what you do and they will take it away. If you don't have any clear advantages at a couple of positions, then you'll end up in trouble. Teams play MUCH harder on D in the playoffs and that level of intensity is new to the Raps, so i'll give them a little bit of a pass, but ultimately I feel that Colangelo has failed to put together a team that is built for the playoffs.

In comparison if Isiah can simply add the shooter we need and somehow get a shotblocker or develop Morris into enough of a shotblocker to make a difference, then we'll have a much better team in terms of playoff BB. I say this cuz we have a more playoff styled team. We have SEVERAL guys that can beat their man 1 on 1. We have a true post player and more capable bigs than Toronto. If we can get Frye back on track and develop Morris, we'll have a deep group of frontcourt players. We already are one of the best rebounding teams in the league and if we can add more defensive toughness, we'd be ready to take on any team in the playoffs. Mark my words, we're more on target than it might seem.

So all the Knicks have to do is "simply" add a shooter and shotblocker and all of a sudden this 33 win team is ready to take on ANY team in the playoffs???

You on crack boy?

As usual you're oversimplifying my point. You know that i've said in other threads that there are other factors. The main point is that this team is BETTER than the 33 wins we had this year and you FREAKIN KNOW IT!!! You can keep trying to act like you really think this team is that bad and that far off, but you KNOW that isn't true. Just watching the games you can see that we're not far off from putting it together. It's not like the competition was the reason we did poorly at times. It was mostly our own mistakes that caused our problems. Things that we can fix and it's more likely than not that we WILL add a shooter and we will likely continue to develop as a team. You see teams grow from year to year and this team will be no different. We will be together as a unit again and the chemistry should continue to build. That's what most good teams do as they move from the early stages to a constant playoff team. You want to have us believe that this team can't get there and you're DEAD WRONG!!!

Yeah, I have said the same thing before. We beat ourselves more times than the competition beat us. If these players can learn to play smarter and reduce the turnovers and Balkman, Collins, and Lee can improve their shooting, we will make a big jump in the standings next year.
Trust the Process
djsunyc
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4/30/2007  9:28 AM
Posted by playa2:

Raps were a real team before Garbojosa and barganni went down, Gabojosa was a 30 yr euro old rookie who might have been a guy younger players looked up to for leadership especially barganni.

the series would probably be tied if garbajosa was still playing. they would've won 2 in toronto, and then lost the 2 in nj. but hey, if nj had krstic, they probably win the division.
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