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Thoughts if we can make out with the draft...
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Solace
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4/28/2007  11:52 PM
I think most agree our biggest needs are a shotblocker and a shooter. I think it sounds like a fair amount of the board thinks the answer to these are Morris Almond and Sean Williams. I'm somewhat against Williams because I think there's a lot of bad influences and bad attitudes on the team that we need to resolve before we bring in someone else of questionable character. That being said, if we could execute a plan that had us resolving these issues, I'd be willing. The plan would look something like this:

2) Draft Morris Almond at #23
1) Trade two future second rounders for a late first rounder to draft Sean Williams

The following players must be gone from the team to make room or because they don't fit:
Jerome James
Channing Frye
Jared Jeffries
Nate Robinson
Steve Francis (likely will have to waive)

James, Frye, Jeffries, Robinson maybe could net a serviceable player or two (hopefully expirings) and a first rounder -- that's all I'd want from the group.

Francis we'd almost definitely have to waive. I hate the idea of wasting his contract, but there's no way him and Marbury can coexist. Trim the fat.

This nets a core team of:

Starters:
C-Eddy Curry
PF-David Lee
SF-Quentin Richarson
SG-Jamal Crawford
PG-Stephon Marbury

Bench:
C-Kelvin Cato (Hopefully we'll keep him)
C/PF-Randolph Morris
PF-Sean Williams
PF/SF-Malik Rose
SF-Renaldo Balkman
SG-Morris Almond
PG-Mardy Collins

While there's a still a lot I don't like about the team, it's a start. I'll keep the Eddy Curry trade proposls out of this thread, since I know Isiah will be.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
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nixluva
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4/29/2007  12:09 AM
I'm not sure why we'd want to get rid of Frye at this point. Why not give him another season to see if he can get his game going and at least raise his value back up? He may just yet find a niche in this league. Also he's cheap.

Nate is immature, but he's a good scorer off the bench. He can easily be an instant offense type for this team in limited minutes. Again, he's cheap. Now that Collins has shown some of his potential, we can expect to see less of Nate, so I don't see him as a danger at all.

James and Francis I have no use for. Cato is gone and I don't see any chance he comes back. I actually think he's was better than James and deserved to play.
BigSm00th
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4/29/2007  12:20 AM
i had proposed this in another thread a few days ago, only my suggestion was frye and nate to houston for their first rounder (given they need help in the backcourt and frye would work well for them). i'm still obvioulsy not sold on frye, but i guess it is the right move to give him another at least half of a season to grow a pair of testicles back.

nate just has no part on this team, the guy is a total ass clown. i think he has some value with seattle, given that he's from there. they have 2 picks in the early 2nd round, and i'd look to move him for one of those to draft sean williams (presuming he falls to the early 2nd). i think the best case scenario with sean is a non-guaranteed contract to keep him on his best behavior and off the ganj.

regardless, i'm with you here. i think almond is an absolute stud (though i like bellineli from italy as well, i like almond more), and having watched williams for the last 3 years at bc, i'm sold he's the best shot blocker in the draft (not better but as good as oden). the guy is a game changer, there's no doubt about that.

add almond and williams, factor in the improvements of lee, balkman, curry, crawford, frye???, and just the overall team cohesion and i think the knicks would win 10 more games next year.

also solace, did you mean malik rose when you said hopefully we keep him (vs kelvin cato). i dont think cato will be brought back, esp. with jerome james making $$. regardless, you didnt include rose in your prospective lineup for next yr. i like rose a lot, i think he brings a really good veteran attitude of playing hard every night and a sense of accountability that is sorely lacking w/ some of the players (nate, frye's cowardice, etc).

i am all for buying francis out, trading nate to get another pick, and going from there.

[Edited by - bigsm00th on 04-29-2007 3:22 PM]
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Solace
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4/29/2007  1:42 AM
Malik Rose is in my lineup. I expect him to be next year... but I want Cato as our backup, not James... even though it's probably not realistic. If we keep James over Cato, I guess that is acceptable, but not great.

Nix, Nate HAS to go. He's a complete distraction. Also, having guys like Marbury as a mentor.... he's just not going to develop here. Francis has to go if Marbury stays. Those two can't be on the same team. Jeffries just needs to go because he has no real role on the team and we can go with younger options. Frye is too soft and him being on the roster impedes us from playing players who compliment Curry better. So, those moves have to happen.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
BigSm00th
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4/29/2007  2:31 AM
solace, my bad on missing malik on your first roster.

i agree with everything you say man, good stuff. i agree that cato would be better, apparently he worked a lot w/ curry, but if they got james on the books for 3 more years you might as well keep the dude around.

re: nate, i couldnt agree more, the guy is a total head case, all out for himself and only about getting on ESPN's top 10 highlights. i didnt foresee this coming given his football background and how washington was, i thought he'd be a great defender and energy guy but hes totally insane, he needs to leave its such a distraction.

francis will be bought out, i'd be absolutely shocked if he wasnt.

frye is soft but, who knows, i'd say hold onto him until december and a) see if his trade value goes up and b) see if he can actually get his act together. at that point if nothings changed im guessing they could still move him at the deadline, teams always need big guys.

i agree about jeffries but how many contracts can a team eat? if they're taking francis thats like $50 mil off the books i think jeffries has gotta stay and just be 12th man.

it seems like isiah is under the same impression, building from within. when most of your contributors are still in their early 20s then its safe to say the collective improvement will help the team more than any acquisition or spent $$$ on some bum MLE acquisition like travis outlaw or ruben patterson.
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4949
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4/29/2007  2:36 AM
The following players must be gone from the team to make room or because they don't fit:
Jerome James
Channing Frye
Jared Jeffries
Nate Robinson
Steve Francis (likely will have to waive)


Didn't you forget starbury?
I'll never trust this' team again.
BigSm00th
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4/29/2007  3:13 AM
why's starbury gotta go
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Anji
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4/29/2007  3:51 AM
Why's Nate has to go
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
BigSm00th
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4/29/2007  5:05 AM
"the guy is a total head case, all out for himself and only about getting on ESPN's top 10 highlights. i didnt foresee this coming given his football background and how washington was, i thought he'd be a great defender and energy guy but hes totally insane, he needs to leave its such a distraction."
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Pharzeone
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4/29/2007  9:18 AM
Posted by BigSm00th:

"the guy is a total head case, all out for himself and only about getting on ESPN's top 10 highlights. i didnt foresee this coming given his football background and how washington was, i thought he'd be a great defender and energy guy but hes totally insane, he needs to leave its such a distraction."

You just describe 95% of the NBA. Please find or use more specific reasons.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
TheGame
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4/29/2007  10:45 AM
Posted by BigSm00th:

"the guy is a total head case, all out for himself and only about getting on ESPN's top 10 highlights. i didnt foresee this coming given his football background and how washington was, i thought he'd be a great defender and energy guy but hes totally insane, he needs to leave its such a distraction."

Nate was playing better by the end of the season. I think IT was finally starting to get through to him about playing team ball. His defense has regressed though and it is clear that he cannot run the point longer than a few minutes, but as a scorer off the bench, he is pretty good. He is basically a more skilled and athletic Earl Boykins, which is not a bad player to have coming off your bench. I am not greatly opposed to moving Nate, but I think we have to be sure we have someone to replace him. If Mardy improves his shooting this summer and comes back with a decent jumper and 3pt shot, then I think we can move Nate without hurting the team.
Trust the Process
franco12
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4/29/2007  11:14 AM
I think next year should be about getting into the lotto, and in a big way.

If I can ship Crawford and Marbury over the summer great. I'd happily start the year with Francis and Collins and see if we can improve Francis' value to move him mid year. If not, ship him out via 'knee injury' or just flat out waive him.

I'd give Curry one more year- he has an option and he's already threatened to leave if Isiah isn't the coach.
Pharzeone
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4/29/2007  12:00 PM
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by BigSm00th:

"the guy is a total head case, all out for himself and only about getting on ESPN's top 10 highlights. i didnt foresee this coming given his football background and how washington was, i thought he'd be a great defender and energy guy but hes totally insane, he needs to leave its such a distraction."

Nate was playing better by the end of the season. I think IT was finally starting to get through to him about playing team ball. His defense has regressed though and it is clear that he cannot run the point longer than a few minutes, but as a scorer off the bench, he is pretty good. He is basically a more skilled and athletic Earl Boykins, which is not a bad player to have coming off your bench. I am not greatly opposed to moving Nate, but I think we have to be sure we have someone to replace him. If Mardy improves his shooting this summer and comes back with a decent jumper and 3pt shot, then I think we can move Nate without hurting the team.

I am not sure. Nate has proven to be a threat outside. He has improved his 3 point shot since he arrived. If the Knicks move Nate then they need to replace him. Collins needs a legit shooter to play with him. His jumpshot improved a little late but it isn't there.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Swishfm3
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4/29/2007  12:18 PM
Nate is instant offense of the bench. He's a player that doesnt need to start or get warmed up. Forget all that "minor" stuff...it's not like he's "making it rain" at the strip club.

you don't trade Nate.
bigbeast
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4/29/2007  12:24 PM
I agree that landing Williams and Almond would have to be considered a very good draft, particularly when you consider wwhere we are drafting. Both fill two glaring needs.

But let me play devils advocate for a minute. As we all know, the top teams in the league are dominated by multi-skilled players. Almond and Williams both seem to be one-deminsional players. Almonds is a shooter who according to various scouting reports, isn't much of a defender, nor a passer nor a ball handler. Williams seems to be a great shot-blocker, but isn't much of a rebounder nor an offensive threat. The Knicks team is already littered with one-deminsional players. Our whole starting front line are one-deminsional players (Curry, Frye, JJ2) So how much do these players really help us? Will they be situational players? How do we trim the roster down that will allow these players to develop?

Thats why it might be best to try and move players and move up? If KG is staying, he needs a vet to help him win. KG has already endorsed the idea of Marb going back to Minny. Marb for a package of scrubs and their lotto pick.

If we can't move up, It might be time to do what Chi did to us. Move the better talent for shorter contracts and scrubs and just build with our core of youth (Lee, Balk, Collins, Curry, Almond (?), Williams (?)) and just use our lotto picks in the comming yrs to build and clear cap space.
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
highfivesucka
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4/29/2007  12:33 PM
Jerome James and Steve Francis need to STFU & GTFO.

[Edited by - highfivesucka on 04-29-2007 12:33 PM]
^precocious neophyte.
Anji
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4/29/2007  2:19 PM
Posted by Swishfm3:

Nate is instant offense of the bench. He's a player that doesnt need to start or get warmed up. Forget all that "minor" stuff...it's not like he's "making it rain" at the strip club.

you don't trade Nate.
LOL, that's what Im saying.

Some how Nate being a second year player who likes perform alittle too much has turned into him being a head case??? Like he is slapping around strippers at scores. SMH
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Finestrg
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4/29/2007  5:04 PM
Almost everyone agrees that the best case scenario is that the Knicks land both Almond AND Sean Williams in the draft. This team is in dire need of an efficent scorer and a serious interior defensive presence. I think that's obvious. And it better be obvious to Isiah. Well the way you get both is to trade Frye and/or Nate to acquire another pick to get the second guy. That's the only reason you trade Nate and Frye. Plus Frye and Nate seem to have come overhyped/overrated anyway. I mean, seriously, don't you think so? I've lost my patience with these two guys man. Who needs a 6'11" 240+ lb. power forward that wants to play 25' from the basket and is afraid to rebound and defend the interior and a pint-sized "point guard" who isn't a point guard at all really and, quite shockingly despite being the quickest guy on the court, is an awful perimeter defender who contiually loses sight of his man and either can't or won't fight through screens. They do have potential but, for me, it's time to start thinking about what we might be able to get for these guys and with this summer's draft being the deepest in years, I'm looking for an additional pick to plug these glaring holes.

Also with regard to the Almond pick, if we had a chance to get this kid Rodney Stuckey at #23 would you go Stuckey over Almond? I like Almond, especially his size at 6'6" (in case Q still has back problems this kid can play the 3 and that's got to be a big part of this first pick for a scorer), but I'm starting to rethink this a little. Stuckey's 6'4", supposedly an incredible scorer that slashes, shoots it well, gets to the line and makes his FTs at a high clip. His little write-up on ESPN's web site makes some interesting points: (1) talented combo. guards have flourished recently in the NBA, especially guys like Ben Gordon and Monta Ellis who Stuckey compares favorably to, and (2) playing his ball at Eastern Washington and dominating an inferior conference might actually hurt his stock which means he could be available when we pick at #23. Would you guys take Stuckey at #23 if he's there?
Pharzeone
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4/29/2007  7:23 PM
Posted by bigbeast:

I agree that landing Williams and Almond would have to be considered a very good draft, particularly when you consider wwhere we are drafting. Both fill two glaring needs.

But let me play devils advocate for a minute. As we all know, the top teams in the league are dominated by multi-skilled players. Almond and Williams both seem to be one-deminsional players. Almonds is a shooter who according to various scouting reports, isn't much of a defender, nor a passer nor a ball handler. Williams seems to be a great shot-blocker, but isn't much of a rebounder nor an offensive threat. The Knicks team is already littered with one-deminsional players. Our whole starting front line are one-deminsional players (Curry, Frye, JJ2) So how much do these players really help us? Will they be situational players? How do we trim the roster down that will allow these players to develop?

Thats why it might be best to try and move players and move up? If KG is staying, he needs a vet to help him win. KG has already endorsed the idea of Marb going back to Minny. Marb for a package of scrubs and their lotto pick.

If we can't move up, It might be time to do what Chi did to us. Move the better talent for shorter contracts and scrubs and just build with our core of youth (Lee, Balk, Collins, Curry, Almond (?), Williams (?)) and just use our lotto picks in the comming yrs to build and clear cap space.

What does multi-dimensional players mean. Oden is a one dimensional player. He plays great defense but extremely raw on offense. NBADRAFT.NET's comparison to David Robinson is truly unfair to both Oden and Robinson. So you don't draft him? Almond doesn't play great man to man defense but he is capable of playing zone defense. Williams has improved every year in the post at BC. The guy is a lotto pick with attitude/off the court issues. If it was up to me I take him before I would ever think about taking Noah. I had to attack this notion that Almond and Williams are one-dimmensional players stuff.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
bigbeast
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4/29/2007  7:58 PM
Posted by Finestrg:

Almost everyone agrees that the best case scenario is that the Knicks land both Almond AND Sean Williams in the draft. This team is in dire need of an efficent scorer and a serious interior defensive presence. I think that's obvious. And it better be obvious to Isiah. Well the way you get both is to trade Frye and/or Nate to acquire another pick to get the second guy. That's the only reason you trade Nate and Frye. Plus Frye and Nate seem to have come overhyped/overrated anyway. I mean, seriously, don't you think so? I've lost my patience with these two guys man. Who needs a 6'11" 240+ lb. power forward that wants to play 25' from the basket and is afraid to rebound and defend the interior and a pint-sized "point guard" who isn't a point guard at all really and, quite shockingly despite being the quickest guy on the court, is an awful perimeter defender who contiually loses sight of his man and either can't or won't fight through screens. They do have potential but, for me, it's time to start thinking about what we might be able to get for these guys and with this summer's draft being the deepest in years, I'm looking for an additional pick to plug these glaring holes.

Also with regard to the Almond pick, if we had a chance to get this kid Rodney Stuckey at #23 would you go Stuckey over Almond? I like Almond, especially his size at 6'6" (in case Q still has back problems this kid can play the 3 and that's got to be a big part of this first pick for a scorer), but I'm starting to rethink this a little. Stuckey's 6'4", supposedly an incredible scorer that slashes, shoots it well, gets to the line and makes his FTs at a high clip. His little write-up on ESPN's web site makes some interesting points: (1) talented combo. guards have flourished recently in the NBA, especially guys like Ben Gordon and Monta Ellis who Stuckey compares favorably to, and (2) playing his ball at Eastern Washington and dominating an inferior conference might actually hurt his stock which means he could be available when we pick at #23. Would you guys take Stuckey at #23 if he's there?

I mentioned this in another thread. Stuckey is the kind of Guy that Isiah loves. Athletic, slashing combo guard who can score. Look at our backcourt (Marb, Craw, Nate Fran) are all, for the most part combo guards who can create off the dribble and score.

If Stuckey is there, Isiah is taking him. I think Francis will be cut and there is possibility tha Nate is shopped. That would create room for Stuckey. At 6'4, Stuckey is too small to guard many of the SG's in the league. However, with Collins in the backcourt with him, collins can switch off and guard the Sg's on D while Stuckey guards the PG's. With all that said, it'll be hard to pass up on a shooter like Almond, but he doesnt seem like an Isiah type player. At least not as much as Stuckey does.

"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
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