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an example of letting the team grow
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djsunyc
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4/27/2007  3:33 PM
dallas is a good example of identifying the core you're building around and letting them grow together.

finley, nash, dirk = the core they chose to build with

the first year they were together, in 98/99, finley was 25, nash 24 and dirk 20.

98/99 - 19-31 (strike, on pace to win 31 games in an 82 game season)
99/00 - 40-42
00/01 - 53-29
01/02 - 57-25
02/03 - 60-22

imho, isiah has identified his core: jamal, lee and curry. their first year together, jamal was 26, lee 21, curry 23. the hope is that they somehow develop like dallas did.

the quantum leap from the 31 win pace to 53 wins occured when dirk went from a 8.2ppg player to 21.8ppg. and nash went from 8/5 player to 18/8.

currently, curry is already around a 20ppg player. jamal is in the 17-18ppg area as well. so if we would like to use dallas as a model, then we need to add some more players to the mix and hope they develop like dirk and nash did.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 04-27-2007 3:38 PM]
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Bippity10
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4/27/2007  3:39 PM
I agree 100%, at this point we are left to hope that Curry and Crawford turn into Nowitzki and Nash. Come on guys!
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MS
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4/27/2007  3:44 PM
so fans amaze me with how dumb there comparisions are. All three of those guys could shoot the ball and do it well. Identifying Crawford as a core player is the reason we have 34, 23, 34 wins

Curry and Crawford are - players and their defense is just awful, and they are both way to turnover prone to ever be part of a core
MS
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4/27/2007  3:44 PM
so fans amaze me with how dumb there comparisions are. All three of those guys could shoot the ball and do it well. Identifying Crawford as a core player is the reason we have 34, 23, 34 wins

Curry and Crawford are - players and their defense is just awful, and they are both way to turnover prone to ever be part of a core
jimimou
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4/27/2007  3:45 PM
finley and nash are no longer with the team when they went to the finals though, so are you saying that in order for the knicks to "quantum leap" like dallas did, then they have to eventually let go of 2 of their 3 young core players? which means, we are back to the square 1 argument - we need to get rid of jamal and curry/lee to ultimately get better?
franco12
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4/27/2007  3:48 PM
Wait- what are we hoping that Jamal turns into? He's got a track record in the league and that is a scorer who can score but is more likely to miss shots than make.

Curry also has a track record- and that is a low post scorer who turns the ball over with the best of them, who can't pass or rebound.

I have more faith that Lee can turn into a 20 point scorer than Crawford or Curry could ever go on to develop like Nash or Dirk.

We don't have a player that has 1/10th the talent & skill that Dirk has.
TrueBlue
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4/27/2007  4:01 PM
Posted by franco12:

Wait- what are we hoping that Jamal turns into? He's got a track record in the league and that is a scorer who can score but is more likely to miss shots than make.

Curry also has a track record- and that is a low post scorer who turns the ball over with the best of them, who can't pass or rebound.

I have more faith that Lee can turn into a 20 point scorer than Crawford or Curry could ever go on to develop like Nash or Dirk.

We don't have a player that has 1/10th the talent & skill that Dirk has.

LOL a comedian should use that line as part of a monologue.

"A Scorer who scores but misses way more than he makes" cue up the Johnny Carson music.

Crawford is like a limited slash unlimited volume shooter.
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Bippity10
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4/27/2007  4:01 PM
Curry and Crawford the next Nowitski and Nash, the next Magic and Kareem? Only time will tell. I think when they are all in their 50's and 60's this comparison will be more accurate
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Allanfan20
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4/27/2007  4:07 PM
Nash and Dirk? When I see them play, I think of Paris Hilton and Nichole Richie more sometimes. Oh snap!
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Solace
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4/27/2007  4:09 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Nash and Dirk? When I see them play, I think of Paris Hilton and Nichole Richie more sometimes. Oh snap!

Maybe you shouldn't share that with people.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
RemBee76
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4/27/2007  4:10 PM
Boy, there’s no safer tact to criticizing a team and its players than comparing them to Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki. Hey, why don't we have those guys? We New Yorkers, damnit! Meanwhile, neither one has their ring.

This is a shallow line of thinking which ignores the complexity and unpredictability of building an NBA team. You think you have a road-map to a championship? What are you doing in a cubicle instead of an NBA corner office?

Were building around a core that includes Crawford? I don't get that sense, but your guess is as good as mine. Curry won't ever be a franchise player? Maybe. But a year ago djsun was crowing how the guy never has more than 3 good games out of ten, then a 20 pt game streak later he's the linchpin of the offense. You think his face is firmly pressed up against his ceiling? Your crystal ball is clearer than mine. A lot clearer if you are also convinced this is the same team we are going to have in three years.

"Injuries happen". I like how that one is getting used. Its true enough, yet somehow that statement also means to some here that you shouldn't have to overcome them when they do.

You pissed the team is .500 at best, a 33 win team injured? Then how come you were ok with the 23 win team last year? Or didn't you want that coach back to throw another season in the toilet while stroking his long ego.

You guys crack me up. How come we ain't Dallas? 'Cause we ain't in Texas, pardner.
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djsunyc
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4/27/2007  4:24 PM
Posted by RemBee76:

Boy, there�s no safer tact to criticizing a team and its players than comparing them to Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki. Hey, why don't we have those guys? We New Yorkers, damnit! Meanwhile, neither one has their ring.

This is a shallow line of thinking which ignores the complexity and unpredictability of building an NBA team. You think you have a road-map to a championship? What are you doing in a cubicle instead of an NBA corner office?

Were building around a core that includes Crawford? I don't get that sense, but your guess is as good as mine. Curry won't ever be a franchise player? Maybe. But a year ago djsun was crowing how the guy never has more than 3 good games out of ten, then a 20 pt game streak later he's the linchpin of the offense. You think his face is firmly pressed up against his ceiling? Your crystal ball is clearer than mine. A lot clearer if you are also convinced this is the same team we are going to have in three years.

"Injuries happen". I like how that one is getting used. Its true enough, yet somehow that statement also means to some here that you shouldn't have to overcome them when they do.

You pissed the team is .500 at best, a 33 win team injured? Then how come you were ok with the 23 win team last year? Or didn't you want that coach back to throw another season in the toilet while stroking his long ego.

You guys crack me up. How come we ain't Dallas? 'Cause we ain't in Texas, pardner.

the mantra here is stay the course.

so i was looking at teams that "stayed the course" over the past few years (with no major shakeups to the core) and saw one of the successful teams were dallas.

so i went and looked up their stats and i saw how they were able to establish a core and why they became so successful staying the course. and it looks like their players made quantum leaps in play.

so then i looked at our squad and was trying to see if we could make those leaps like they did and if "stay the course" could apply to our situation.

and it looks tough.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 04-27-2007 4:30 PM]
RemBee76
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4/27/2007  4:37 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

[quote]Posted by RemBee76:
so i went and looked up their stats and i saw how they were able to establish and core and why they became so successful staying the course.
[Edited by - djsunyc on 04-27-2007 4:24 PM]

And thanks for the detective work, dj. Or should I call you Columbo now?

You honestly going to tell me this team is going to stay the course the next four years the way Dallas supposedly did (which of course they didn't, as someone here already pointed out).

With antsy "fans" that start booing their sophmore players two weeks into a season? With fickle NY media sharks that swallow you up unless you’re pulling your SUV to the side of the road to feed them your players first? With brainless ownership that thinks having money solves all problems because, lets face it, it usually does?

Nah, we're not staying the course, but it sure would be nice if we did, right? Let our young guys grow together while eyeing cap space in 2009?

Hey, maybe that is the plan. You like that, Columbo, right? So what are you complaining about?





Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
Andrew
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4/27/2007  4:46 PM
Look at the years DJ referred to.
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djsunyc
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4/27/2007  4:48 PM
Posted by RemBee76:

Boy, there�s no safer tact to criticizing a team and its players than comparing them to Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki.

if that's what you took from the post, then you misunderstood it.
BasketballJones
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4/27/2007  5:10 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by RemBee76:

Boy, there�s no safer tact to criticizing a team and its players than comparing them to Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki.

if that's what you took from the post, then you misunderstood it.

Get back in your cubicle!
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Bippity10
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4/27/2007  5:20 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by djsunyc:

[quote]Posted by RemBee76:
so i went and looked up their stats and i saw how they were able to establish and core and why they became so successful staying the course.
[Edited by - djsunyc on 04-27-2007 4:24 PM]

A

With antsy "fans" that start booing their sophmore players two weeks into a season?

Is this truth or agenda? Were the fans booing the Frye's, Lee's and Nates of the world. Or were they booing A TEAM that quit the year before and came out flat this year. A flat that could very well have cost us the playoffs?

Let me ask you this. If you stopped working for a week. Just went to your desk and sat there for a week straight. Then the next week when you came back, don't you think your effort better be on point or else you are going to be screamed at? That's life. Why do we want to change it.

I am not a boo'er. I don't boo. I never have and never will. But I have been a player and I have been boo'd. One thing I knew. That if I laid down a stinker on Night 1, or Year 1. I better come out ready to go on Night 2 or year 2. Or else the fans were going to let me have it. That's the real world. Especially in NY. It ain't going to change. And all you cats that think it's going to change. Good luck with that. New York demands special types of players. The booing is not going away unless the players give 100%.

Magically the booing went away as the season went along and the players bucked up. Again, why is this concept so difficult to understand? Somebody tell me, are there a lot of Californians on this site?


[Edited by - bippity10 on 27-04-2007 5:21 PM]
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RemBee76
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4/27/2007  5:25 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Magically the booing went away as the season went along and the players bucked up.

The players bucked up? I swear you guys are speaking a different language.

Its even simpler, Bip. They started winning. They had a winning record at home at one point after starting out 1-6 or whatever.

Winning is something we New Yorkers know how to respond to. Rebuilding? Man, we can't even do that at the World Trade Center site.

Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
Bippity10
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4/27/2007  5:32 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by Bippity10:

Magically the booing went away as the season went along and the players bucked up.

The players bucked up? I swear you guys are speaking a different language.

Its even simpler, Bip. They started winning. They had a winning record at home at one point after starting out 1-6 or whatever.

Winning is something we New Yorkers know how to respond to. Rebuilding? Man, we can't even do that at the World Trade Center site.

So in other words you agree with what I just said you just felt like being antagonistic for the he-ll of it. Got it. The board can always use another one of those.
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RemBee76
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4/27/2007  5:37 PM
See, you're in it so deep yourself, Bip, you don't see the difference.

Effort (bucking up in your parlance) is not the same as winning.

Unfortunately for rebuilding teams, those two rarely coincide, in fact.

No one boos when a their team is winning. You get a gold star for that observation. But New Yorkers sit still for losers, effort and all? Why should they? Always something alse to do in this city.
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
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