[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

I hate being right on this one, but I gotta laugh!
Author Thread
4949
Posts: 29378
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/25/2006
Member: #1126
USA
4/14/2007  2:02 PM
Knicks are 3-13 since Thomas got re-signed. I know, I know some of you will use the excuse of all of our injuries. Balony!!! What was it that Thomas said about the elimination game against New Jersey? Oh yeah 'I'm pround of the way the guys competed'?

Why say 'anything at all' Thomas?

I just hope one thing at this time. I hope Dolan is using the steel toe boots, as he's kicking himself in the ass harder and harder!!!

Oh and all of those Curry fans all ready to ship Curry off into the 50 greatest players list and straight into the hall of fame (not to mention being pushed as being better than Ewing), take note that aside that 43 point game, he's been basically a non-factor.
I'll never trust this' team again.
AUTOADVERT
Nalod
Posts: 72403
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
4/14/2007  3:22 PM

Isiah is under orders to say nice things. He is the anti-Larry.

Larry kept it real.
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

4/14/2007  3:27 PM

Knicks fans...aren't you happy you were right....
BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
Alba Posts: 41
Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024

4/14/2007  3:45 PM
Posted by 4949:

Knicks are 3-13 since Thomas got re-signed. I know, I know some of you will use the excuse of all of our injuries. Balony!!! What was it that Thomas said about the elimination game against New Jersey? Oh yeah 'I'm pround of the way the guys competed'?

Why say 'anything at all' Thomas?

I just hope one thing at this time. I hope Dolan is using the steel toe boots, as he's kicking himself in the ass harder and harder!!!

Oh and all of those Curry fans all ready to ship Curry off into the 50 greatest players list and straight into the hall of fame (not to mention being pushed as being better than Ewing), take note that aside that 43 point game, he's been basically a non-factor.


You were rather optimistic in the off-season. Are we so needy that we have to chest thump for being right for a few weeks?
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
4/14/2007  4:44 PM
1. No one is saying that ALL of our problems this year boil down to Injuries. That's stupid. We all know this team had many problems even when healthy. What we're saying is that they wouldn't have THIS bad of a final record if they had better health. NOT PERFECT HEALTH!!! Just not so bad as it got to end the year.

2. This team wasn't about this year anyway. We came into this year with relatively modest expectations for somewhere near a .500 season and the playoffs. If they had done that it STILL would be a team that was flawed and in need of improvement to reach the level we want it to reach. This year isn't the end all be all for this team.

3. This team took some good steps in this 1st year. The record is only one aspect of what we hoped to get out of this year. The MOST important thing was to develop this into more of team and to establish an identity. We also wanted to develop our young players and a lot of good things happened on that front.

It's not about the 3-13 record after the Thomas extension. It's about the future for this team. It's about what Isiah does to improve the roster from here on out. We have some decent pieces and some real important needs that have to be addressed. Isiah and his staff have a lot of work to do with our young players to prepare them for bigger roles next year. That's what is MOST important.
Anji
Posts: 25523
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 4/14/2006
Member: #1122
USA
4/14/2007  5:08 PM
I think you have it wrong, or backwards. Dolan saw all the injuries and answered the question before the collapse.............. what 7 year old grad schooler believes the record would be different if isiah didn't get extended????
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
4949
Posts: 29378
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/25/2006
Member: #1126
USA
4/14/2007  7:34 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by 4949:

Knicks are 3-13 since Thomas got re-signed. I know, I know some of you will use the excuse of all of our injuries. Balony!!! What was it that Thomas said about the elimination game against New Jersey? Oh yeah 'I'm pround of the way the guys competed'?

Why say 'anything at all' Thomas?

I just hope one thing at this time. I hope Dolan is using the steel toe boots, as he's kicking himself in the ass harder and harder!!!

Oh and all of those Curry fans all ready to ship Curry off into the 50 greatest players list and straight into the hall of fame (not to mention being pushed as being better than Ewing), take note that aside that 43 point game, he's been basically a non-factor.


You were rather optimistic in the off-season. Are we so needy that we have to chest thump for being right for a few weeks?

Okay, maybe thumping my chest in celebration is a bit too much, but I was still right, right?!
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
Posts: 29378
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/25/2006
Member: #1126
USA
4/14/2007  7:50 PM
Posted by nixluva:

1. No one is saying that ALL of our problems this year boil down to Injuries. That's stupid. We all know this team had many problems even when healthy. What we're saying is that they wouldn't have THIS bad of a final record if they had better health. NOT PERFECT HEALTH!!! Just not so bad as it got to end the year.

2. This team wasn't about this year anyway. We came into this year with relatively modest expectations for somewhere near a .500 season and the playoffs. If they had done that it STILL would be a team that was flawed and in need of improvement to reach the level we want it to reach. This year isn't the end all be all for this team.

3. This team took some good steps in this 1st year. The record is only one aspect of what we hoped to get out of this year. The MOST important thing was to develop this into more of team and to establish an identity. We also wanted to develop our young players and a lot of good things happened on that front.

It's not about the 3-13 record after the Thomas extension. It's about the future for this team. It's about what Isiah does to improve the roster from here on out. We have some decent pieces and some real important needs that have to be addressed. Isiah and his staff have a lot of work to do with our young players to prepare them for bigger roles next year. That's what is MOST important.

I'm reading this and all I'm seeing is the same old thing. Excuses. Why don't you just say it failed and we need major changes, but we can't do it because we're locked up and Thomas is going to make it worse? That's the path he's on.

Of course it's about the future is why I don't like what I'm seeing here. I mean what future are you talking about? If it's not a lack of talant, then it's the other thing that always dogs us. INJURIES! I've given starbury a chance to prove himself and I given Thomas a chance to prove himself and it failed. I am no longer optimistic about these guys. They need to go, but we can't get rid of them. If Dol has opened the wallet again, then we risk the chance of ever lasting disaster! It could take a decade to repair, to have a chance again to make the right moves. We are in the same exact position we were in five years ago. What's it going to take for everyone to recognize that, acknowledge that and demand changes, starting from the very top? I made the very same arguments five, six, sever years ago and look what happened to the last set of Knicks. Nothing! I'm not going to wait around, wishing for Curry to hit the next game winning three pointer again. We can't live like that! I have much higher expectations. I'm a Knick fan for crying out loud! We're not supposed to be settling for an extra nine wins compared to last year and still be well under .500. Open the eyes man, open the eyes!
I'll never trust this' team again.
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
4/14/2007  8:21 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by 4949:

Knicks are 3-13 since Thomas got re-signed. I know, I know some of you will use the excuse of all of our injuries. Balony!!! What was it that Thomas said about the elimination game against New Jersey? Oh yeah 'I'm pround of the way the guys competed'?

Why say 'anything at all' Thomas?

I just hope one thing at this time. I hope Dolan is using the steel toe boots, as he's kicking himself in the ass harder and harder!!!

Oh and all of those Curry fans all ready to ship Curry off into the 50 greatest players list and straight into the hall of fame (not to mention being pushed as being better than Ewing), take note that aside that 43 point game, he's been basically a non-factor.


You were rather optimistic in the off-season. Are we so needy that we have to chest thump for being right for a few weeks?

LOL.... GAme, set, match!! good post blue....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
4949
Posts: 29378
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/25/2006
Member: #1126
USA
4/14/2007  8:34 PM
Posted by Anji:

I think you have it wrong, or backwards. Dolan saw all the injuries and answered the question before the collapse.............. what 7 year old grad schooler believes the record would be different if isiah didn't get extended????

Well, the fact that we were anywhere from five to seven games under .500 and as soon as he got signed, the fact that the Knicks fell like a rock out of the sky, with only three wins since then. It's hard to make this argument, I know, with injuries on this team, I know it does not help, but everything that happens is a reflection of what is going on here in the big picture, including the future. You almost have to factor the injuries into this. Why are we having so many injuries, especially with our young guys, is just 'one' question I have here. We've seen it so many damn times. I mean can people really be this optimistic, in the face of failure and losing seasons and still not demand changes? What kind of signal does something like this send to the press, the brass, the team? Are we letting this team know that we approve of the season and grade it with high marks. Does this kind of support tell Thomas that whatever he's doing, keep on doing it, because it's working?

I can't see a thing that tells me anything' is working in this organization. Ask yourslef about the injuries to our young people, go ahead and see what kind of answers you come up with? I mean it's no lie. It's right there, stairing you in the face. For me, a well managed team is one that is first of all, put together well. I mean in my mind (and stop me if I'm crazy, but) chemistry plays an important roll here, doesn't it? Was the Brown-starbury combo a good move? Was it well thought out, were the consequences thought out, before the deal was made to put them toghter? Absolutely not! It was a huge mistake! And it cost us dearly! Don't get me completely wrong here. I mean (and if I may flip-flop here a little bit) I thought, just as many of us thought, it was a good move. I mean how could it fail, right? But we're not the management. We don't evaluate these things. All we know is the reputations they come with. We know nothing about what's behind the scenes, right? We find out the hard way whether something works or not. Also in my mind, in putting a team together, I mean a lot of fiscal responsibility has to be factored into your decision on who and what to sign them to, doesn't it? I mean, if you we're GM, would you take on a twelve year, multi million dollar contract, like Larry Johnson for instance and 'HOPE' it works out? Of course you wouldn't but one of your GM's actually did! Would you sign a guy, who was a very good outside shooter, like Allan Houston to a seven year, one-hundred million dollar contract, with no proven experience, other than what has become known as 'the bounce'? Of course you would not! We now know what a disasterous signings those two were, don't we? This is what I mean about fiscal responsibility. Our GM's make these rediculous moves, but unproven talent, sign them to multi millions for several years, having proven nothing and we get stuck when it comes crashing down. Need I say more? Of course' I have plenty, plenty to say about this team. It's all negative, because it is' negative. Look at the damn records, year after year! I'll ask, was it fiscally responsible signing starbury to a several year contract, worth millions and millions of dollars, knowing that he might bring his attitude with him? Of course is wasn't! How about Jerome James? Or how bout Jeffries? Didn't Thomas say he was one of the best defenders the league had and what did he do, what did Thomas sign him to? I suppose we got just a 'little' lucky, by not signing Frye, Lee and Nate to huge contracts, knowing what we're seeing now, isn't it? Collins and Balkman been looking pretty good lately, but will they sprout, like a flower in May and then die by June? All of this evidence, staring us in the face, time after time after time. I will say again, that Crawford and Lee have been the biggest bright spots, and Curry, but only when Crawford was in there, but with they're injuries, I wonder waht is going on here. On the subject of injuries, what is with this? Is the problem that the coaches who condition our players, is it that they are not good enough in the conditioning skills, practices? Or is it that the players are not focusing, not taking the conditioning serious? When I see a little punk like Nate, prancing and dancing on the courst like a little joker, I wonder how serious he is about playing this game. When Curry hit that game winner, from three point range, normally a guy would have jumped for joy, with a big smile from ear to ear! But after he hit it, there was nothing! The body language spoke words to me. He stood there like it was 'no big thang'. As if he could do it anytime. It was a nice finish to a game, a rarity, but it really screams questions in my mind, in my ear as to how serious these guys really are about playing the game of basketball?

I have another theory. New York City sports and a money market like New York City do not make good bed buddies. I think money is a big tainter, when trying to play the game of basketball. They establish themselves somewhere else, but when they get to New York...... It's seems to be all about show, then substance! So the thoughts on what this team and the season has meant is all here. What do any of you guys think about this way of life in Knick world? Here's the list to think about:

Fiscal responsibility (there's been no responsibility)
Picking the right pieces (like I said, there's been no responsibility)
Injury vs. conditioning (guess who's winning on this front?)
Showmanship vs. substance (plenty of showoffs, wisdom needed very badly)
I'll never trust this' team again.
BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
Alba Posts: 41
Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024

4/14/2007  8:51 PM
I think Isiah shut down guys earlier than he would have without the extension. Sure guys are banged up, but what else is new? I know Lee couldn't play earlier, but could he now? What about Marbury and Balkman? Jamal was in pain but it didn't show on court- did he have to go under the knife when he did? What about Q - if we were really in the hunt would he have gone under the knife when he did, or after the the season was over?

I don't know the answer to all those questions but I do think some of these guys would be gutting it out if something were at stake. But I think at some level Isiah decided no record is too bad if guys are hurt, but if guys are playing and the record is bad it's a worse showing so he's letting guys sit.

I don't blame him, there's nothing at stake. Pride seems of little importance if the face of an excuse.
4949
Posts: 29378
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/25/2006
Member: #1126
USA
4/14/2007  9:04 PM
Pride is the least worry. The biggest worry is exactly what is at stake' as you bring it up (and I don't mean to use your words back at yuh, but). The thing is, is what does this say to the near future, with so many injuries, particularily with the young guys? That's the biggest concern and the problem within that is, it has to be answered rather quickly, because we either sign them, or let them go, before we really' have to sign them to a bigger commitment. It is because they are so young that, that question needs to be asked and answered. That is what is at stake! If they were proven veterans, with well established credentials, and several more good years under they're belts, then the decisions would be much easier.
I'll never trust this' team again.
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
4/14/2007  9:08 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by nixluva:

1. No one is saying that ALL of our problems this year boil down to Injuries. That's stupid. We all know this team had many problems even when healthy. What we're saying is that they wouldn't have THIS bad of a final record if they had better health. NOT PERFECT HEALTH!!! Just not so bad as it got to end the year.

2. This team wasn't about this year anyway. We came into this year with relatively modest expectations for somewhere near a .500 season and the playoffs. If they had done that it STILL would be a team that was flawed and in need of improvement to reach the level we want it to reach. This year isn't the end all be all for this team.

3. This team took some good steps in this 1st year. The record is only one aspect of what we hoped to get out of this year. The MOST important thing was to develop this into more of team and to establish an identity. We also wanted to develop our young players and a lot of good things happened on that front.

It's not about the 3-13 record after the Thomas extension. It's about the future for this team. It's about what Isiah does to improve the roster from here on out. We have some decent pieces and some real important needs that have to be addressed. Isiah and his staff have a lot of work to do with our young players to prepare them for bigger roles next year. That's what is MOST important.

I'm reading this and all I'm seeing is the same old thing. Excuses. Why don't you just say it failed and we need major changes, but we can't do it because we're locked up and Thomas is going to make it worse? That's the path he's on.

Of course it's about the future is why I don't like what I'm seeing here. I mean what future are you talking about? If it's not a lack of talant, then it's the other thing that always dogs us. INJURIES! I've given starbury a chance to prove himself and I given Thomas a chance to prove himself and it failed. I am no longer optimistic about these guys. They need to go, but we can't get rid of them. If Dol has opened the wallet again, then we risk the chance of ever lasting disaster! It could take a decade to repair, to have a chance again to make the right moves. We are in the same exact position we were in five years ago. What's it going to take for everyone to recognize that, acknowledge that and demand changes, starting from the very top? I made the very same arguments five, six, sever years ago and look what happened to the last set of Knicks. Nothing! I'm not going to wait around, wishing for Curry to hit the next game winning three pointer again. We can't live like that! I have much higher expectations. I'm a Knick fan for crying out loud! We're not supposed to be settling for an extra nine wins compared to last year and still be well under .500. Open the eyes man, open the eyes!

I don't think Isiah will mess this up. Of course there's that chance, but I think he can see more clearly what this team needs now. I think it was much harder before this season. Now we have some good role players that are a lock for being able to fit into the way this team plays going forward. We just have to fill in those areas we are weak at. There are fewer of those now, so much less of a chance of making a bad decision on who or what to add. I think Francis cured Isiah of making a similar bad move in the future.

If Isiah decides to make a big move it's likely gonna be as many have already suggested a guy like JO or KG. Maybe Isiah can make that happen. Then it's just a matter of adding another shooter for added punch on the perimeter. IF he can't do either of those, I think he'll be conservative and go with just a drafted player and a FA like Carroll. Then he'll look to continue to develop the young players.


4949
Posts: 29378
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/25/2006
Member: #1126
USA
4/14/2007  9:08 PM
It seems more than likely that zeke would re-sign his young guys, proven or not, injured or not, because he puts a lot of pride in his picks and has a history of sticking with them. We're really in a tough corner, because it is our future. It either gets better or it's another bust! Judging from our luck and history, I wouldn't be willing to take such chances, without first thinking very deeply about this from the soul, the inner me, the subconscious.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
Posts: 29378
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/25/2006
Member: #1126
USA
4/14/2007  9:13 PM
Of course there's that chance

But can we afford to take it, is the biggest question? If it fails (and oh' boy have we failed) then what? Do you have an answer for that? It's just not healthy at all to live on chances. We been doing it for just about ten years now and it's been one failure after another. This is the biggest point I'm trying to get across the board.
I'll never trust this' team again.
rojasmas
Posts: 21207
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/25/2004
Member: #639
4/14/2007  10:38 PM
This team would have won 40 games or thereabout without the injuries. Isiah did a decent job.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
4949
Posts: 29378
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/25/2006
Member: #1126
USA
4/14/2007  10:47 PM
And this is what I keep saying, keep bringing up, I realize, is the fact of 'all of these injuries'. No ones questioning why? Why did we have so many and why are our young players having them? What's going on with that? Yeah, I agree, we'd probably be somewhere around 40 if. So the injuries? What about that? What's going on here? Did Zeke really' do a good job? Did his staff really do a good job? Was his players conditioned correctly, are they being conditioned correctly? I mean it's very noticeble to me. See what um saying?
I'll never trust this' team again.
arkrud
Posts: 32217
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
4/14/2007  11:49 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by Anji:

I think you have it wrong, or backwards. Dolan saw all the injuries and answered the question before the collapse.............. what 7 year old grad schooler believes the record would be different if isiah didn't get extended????

Well, the fact that we were anywhere from five to seven games under .500 and as soon as he got signed, the fact that the Knicks fell like a rock out of the sky, with only three wins since then. It's hard to make this argument, I know, with injuries on this team, I know it does not help, but everything that happens is a reflection of what is going on here in the big picture, including the future. You almost have to factor the injuries into this. Why are we having so many injuries, especially with our young guys, is just 'one' question I have here. We've seen it so many damn times. I mean can people really be this optimistic, in the face of failure and losing seasons and still not demand changes? What kind of signal does something like this send to the press, the brass, the team? Are we letting this team know that we approve of the season and grade it with high marks. Does this kind of support tell Thomas that whatever he's doing, keep on doing it, because it's working?

I can't see a thing that tells me anything' is working in this organization. Ask yourslef about the injuries to our young people, go ahead and see what kind of answers you come up with? I mean it's no lie. It's right there, stairing you in the face. For me, a well managed team is one that is first of all, put together well. I mean in my mind (and stop me if I'm crazy, but) chemistry plays an important roll here, doesn't it? Was the Brown-starbury combo a good move? Was it well thought out, were the consequences thought out, before the deal was made to put them toghter? Absolutely not! It was a huge mistake! And it cost us dearly! Don't get me completely wrong here. I mean (and if I may flip-flop here a little bit) I thought, just as many of us thought, it was a good move. I mean how could it fail, right? But we're not the management. We don't evaluate these things. All we know is the reputations they come with. We know nothing about what's behind the scenes, right? We find out the hard way whether something works or not. Also in my mind, in putting a team together, I mean a lot of fiscal responsibility has to be factored into your decision on who and what to sign them to, doesn't it? I mean, if you we're GM, would you take on a twelve year, multi million dollar contract, like Larry Johnson for instance and 'HOPE' it works out? Of course you wouldn't but one of your GM's actually did! Would you sign a guy, who was a very good outside shooter, like Allan Houston to a seven year, one-hundred million dollar contract, with no proven experience, other than what has become known as 'the bounce'? Of course you would not! We now know what a disasterous signings those two were, don't we? This is what I mean about fiscal responsibility. Our GM's make these rediculous moves, but unproven talent, sign them to multi millions for several years, having proven nothing and we get stuck when it comes crashing down. Need I say more? Of course' I have plenty, plenty to say about this team. It's all negative, because it is' negative. Look at the damn records, year after year! I'll ask, was it fiscally responsible signing starbury to a several year contract, worth millions and millions of dollars, knowing that he might bring his attitude with him? Of course is wasn't! How about Jerome James? Or how bout Jeffries? Didn't Thomas say he was one of the best defenders the league had and what did he do, what did Thomas sign him to? I suppose we got just a 'little' lucky, by not signing Frye, Lee and Nate to huge contracts, knowing what we're seeing now, isn't it? Collins and Balkman been looking pretty good lately, but will they sprout, like a flower in May and then die by June? All of this evidence, staring us in the face, time after time after time. I will say again, that Crawford and Lee have been the biggest bright spots, and Curry, but only when Crawford was in there, but with they're injuries, I wonder waht is going on here. On the subject of injuries, what is with this? Is the problem that the coaches who condition our players, is it that they are not good enough in the conditioning skills, practices? Or is it that the players are not focusing, not taking the conditioning serious? When I see a little punk like Nate, prancing and dancing on the courst like a little joker, I wonder how serious he is about playing this game. When Curry hit that game winner, from three point range, normally a guy would have jumped for joy, with a big smile from ear to ear! But after he hit it, there was nothing! The body language spoke words to me. He stood there like it was 'no big thang'. As if he could do it anytime. It was a nice finish to a game, a rarity, but it really screams questions in my mind, in my ear as to how serious these guys really are about playing the game of basketball?

I have another theory. New York City sports and a money market like New York City do not make good bed buddies. I think money is a big tainter, when trying to play the game of basketball. They establish themselves somewhere else, but when they get to New York...... It's seems to be all about show, then substance! So the thoughts on what this team and the season has meant is all here. What do any of you guys think about this way of life in Knick world? Here's the list to think about:

Fiscal responsibility (there's been no responsibility)
Picking the right pieces (like I said, there's been no responsibility)
Injury vs. conditioning (guess who's winning on this front?)
Showmanship vs. substance (plenty of showoffs, wisdom needed very badly)


Thanks for the post
Not too much fans really cares as you do and it is not a bit of sarcasm.
I can sign under all you sad in this long post.
I am looking more optimistic at the future as I have a feeling that Isiah and his time is coming to the end.
Yes he get extension but he will be forced to go and pretty soon.
He is running out af exuses and out of resources.
And if somebody think that extension is his victory and something he enjoed -its wrong. This is the biggest possible panishment to him as he is forced to sit in his own sh..t and be a joke for all people who somehow related to NBA.
And he really deserved this big time.
















[Edited by - arkrud on 04-14-2007 11:50 PM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
4/15/2007  7:44 AM
3. This team took some good steps in this 1st year.
1st year? Please explain
Panos
Posts: 30693
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 1/6/2004
Member: #520
4/15/2007  11:28 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
3. This team took some good steps in this 1st year.
1st year? Please explain

First year since last year, silly....

I hate being right on this one, but I gotta laugh!

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy