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Knicks’ Biggest Success: Learning to Be a Team
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misterearl
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4/12/2007  7:20 AM
Quentin Richardson recalled a day in training camp last October when Isiah Thomas, who feuded with Brown and then replaced him on the bench, set the tone for the season.

“He told us, ‘I don’t care what nobody else says about us,’ ” Richardson said. “ ‘Everybody else doesn’t matter. What matters is what’s in this room and if we believe. I’m telling you right now, we got what it takes. We just got to believe in each other and put in the work.’ ”

Throughout their many low points this season, the Knicks have put meaning to those words. They were unified, not splintered, by their December brawl with the Denver Nuggets, a clash colored by notions of disrespect and wounded pride.

Thomas established this theme in the third game of the season, when he chided the Indiana Pacers for whooping it up in a rout of the Knicks.

“One day,” Thomas vowed that night, “we’ll be the team that’s on top, doing the kicking and the stepping.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/sports/basketball/12knicks.html?ref=sports
once a knick always a knick
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Bonn1997
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4/12/2007  7:56 AM
Learning to be a team? They play nothing but one on one offense.

What exactly did they learn? What specific knowledge do they have now that they didn't before the season started?
nixluva
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4/12/2007  8:26 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Learning to be a team? They play nothing but one on one offense.

What exactly did they learn? What specific knowledge do they have now that they didn't before the season started?

Did you read the entire article? It explains what the writer means by this.

Knicks’ Biggest Success: Learning to Be a Team

By HOWARD BECK
Published: April 12, 2007
Another Knicks season is winding down amid angry shouts and bruised egos and embarrassing play. The tension was almost tangible Tuesday night after the Knicks took a 29-point thumping in Chicago.

But this is less alarming than it appears. The anger is directed outward now, toward insensitive opponents who score too many points and toward the nonbelievers who dare express skepticism at the Knicks’ evident progress.

The rage can come off as misplaced — as it did when players accused the Bulls of running up the score, when Chicago put up only 20 points in the fourth quarter — but it plays better than the images and words of last April.

A year ago, the rage was aimed inward, as players turned on Coach Larry Brown and Brown in turn battled his players and his bosses in the final days of a horrific season. These Knicks (32-46) will most likely miss the playoffs for the third consecutive season, but their progress can be found in the least measurable category: team dynamics.

Quentin Richardson recalled a day in training camp last October when Isiah Thomas, who feuded with Brown and then replaced him on the bench, set the tone for the season.

“He told us, ‘I don’t care what nobody else says about us,’ ” Richardson said. “ ‘Everybody else doesn’t matter. What matters is what’s in this room and if we believe. I’m telling you right now, we got what it takes. We just got to believe in each other and put in the work.’ ”

Throughout their many low points this season, the Knicks have put meaning to those words. They were unified, not splintered, by their December brawl with the Denver Nuggets, a clash colored by notions of disrespect and wounded pride.

Thomas established this theme in the third game of the season, when he chided the Indiana Pacers for whooping it up in a rout of the Knicks.

“One day,” Thomas vowed that night, “we’ll be the team that’s on top, doing the kicking and the stepping.”

That day remains somewhere out on the horizon. But the Knicks now move with a swagger that eclipses their winning percentage. They are still the target of late-night quipsters, but the barbs come less frequently.

(Jon Stewart on Monday asked Bill Bradley, the former senator and onetime Knick, if his new book addressed “why the Knicks can’t get their stuff together.” Bradley responded, “Jon, there are some things beyond the capacity of someone who is in public life for 20 years.”)

The Knicks firmly believe the world would view them differently had they not been racked by injuries. Between Feb. 27 and March 10, they lost Jamal Crawford, David Lee and Richardson to injuries that eventually ended their seasons. The three were among the Knicks’ top six scorers, their two leading rebounders and their best playmaker.

From Dec. 18 to March 3, the Knicks went 19-16. Their record never approached .500, but they occupied eighth place in the Eastern Conference on March 10 and remained in the playoff race until the past two weeks, when the injuries became too much to overcome.

That, Richardson said, is why this team should not be viewed as “the same old Knicks.”

“Any team in the league, you take three or four of their best players, it’s going to be tough,” he said. “I don’t care who they are, I don’t care what players they got. Even with us losing those key guys, our team is still fighting, in every game, playing hard.”

They have done so recently despite also losing Stephon Marbury, and relying heavily on two rookies and two second-year players. The blowout Tuesday was an exception; most of the Knicks’ recent losses have come down to the final minutes.

With their playoff hopes all but extinguished, the Knicks have little to achieve in the final four games. There is no payoff for losing — their first-round draft pick will be used by the Bulls as the final compensation from the Eddy Curry trade. (The Knicks get the Bulls’ pick.) The best the Knicks can do is avoid falling deeper in the standings, thus improving Chicago’s draft position. Before yesterday’s games, the Knicks were tied for the seventh-most losses in the N.B.A.

Thomas bristled Tuesday when a Chicago reporter suggested that the players might have relaxed after they “saved” his job. (The Knicks are 3-12 since Thomas received a contract extension.)

“I’m pretty secure in who I am, and I’ve done all right in my life, so I don’t need people saving me,” Thomas said sternly. “But thank you.”

Richardson seemed to regret that the Knicks could not do more for Thomas. After last season’s misery, he said, Thomas had the Knicks enjoying the game again and “working toward the same goal.”

“I was severely impressed to be around him this year and see how he handled everything from top to bottom,” Richardson said. “They were trying to throw him away for dead, and I mean he stood right there the whole time and he told us from Day 1, and I still believe him, that if we were all healthy that we could beat anybody. I think everybody will go home with their heads up high.”


Are these things not true? Is it too much to ask to actually accept that there were some good things that came out of this season? Perhaps that there's a case to be made that this team had a great chance at being in the playoffs if it didn't have so many injuries all at once? I for one could see that this team really came together and remained together this season. That's a HUGE development for this group which they can take with them going forward.
fishmike
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4/12/2007  9:16 AM
Larry's fault
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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4/12/2007  9:30 AM
Hey, they played as a team. Thats great.

NOw they are a "Team" who did not make the playoffs.

They are a "Team" that is not well coached.

They are a well dressed "Team".

THey are the highest paid "Team".

They now are swapping a lotto pick as a "Team" with the Bulls.

Here is my rub with this season. Last year was not a normal season for all reasons we know. 23 wins was not just bad, but pathetic. To use that as a bench mark and to say our 9 game improvement warrants kudos is rather pathetic in my humblest of opinion.

This team is very talented, and while they may have acted like a team by not talking to the papers and rallying around each other, the result was really not all that great considering the level of competition in the east and what the team is capable of.

Sorry, this year was a failure and while Eddy is a fine player we gave up too much given that in the time he has been here we really have not been good enough to make the playoffs.

All we talking about here is the playoffs!
TrueBlue
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4/12/2007  9:43 AM
They are a TEAM that have a myriad of IF's going into next season.


So basically ISAYUGH stopped the lockerroom rifts and coach/player backbiting. LODY FREAKIN DO!
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
MS
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4/12/2007  9:49 AM
selfish turnover prone basketball, and only playing offense, i love these quotes
Bippity10
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4/12/2007  9:57 AM
“I’m pretty secure in who I am, and I’ve done all right in my life, so I don’t need people saving me,” Thomas said sternly. “But thank you.”

Hear that Nixluva?
I just hope that people will like me
Elite
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4/12/2007  10:01 AM
good artical i still believe
TheGame
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4/12/2007  10:04 AM
This year was a moderate success after the dismal year we had last year. I like the team because I realize:

1) Francis will not be on the team next year.

2) Lee, Balkman, and Collins are likely to get better and fill in the need for defense and smarts on the team.

3) Marbury is playing well.

4) IT is going to kill himself making Curry better if for no other reason than to justify the trade. If Curry can learn to pass out of the double-team, we should be able to run a pretty effective offense with guys like Q and Nate shooting wide-open threes.

5) Jeffries will be better (he could hardly be worse next year).

6) The team will start the year off knowing what to do and without all the booing, which should allow them to go through the entire season at a slightly above .500 pace. While not great, it will be enough to get us into the playoffs and start to give these kids some playoff experience.

7) We have trade assets. Frye still has value and Lee, Nate, Crawford, Collins, and Balkman can all easily be traded. Plus, Rose will have only one more year on his contract, so he should start looking more attractive to teams. IT should be able to put together a package that will net us a solid starter.

The team still needs alot of work but I see the potential for progress next year.
Trust the Process
nixluva
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4/12/2007  10:07 AM
You have to start somewhere after the mess that was left last year. We had to establish something in the way of a team identity where there wasn't one. It's not a simple thing to jump from nothing to the highest levels with a team that was pretty much put together last year. What did we have something like 11 new players. We also came into this year with a couple of rooks and they turned out really nice.

No one is ignoring the negatives that still exist with this team. We all know that they have a long way to go. My problem with some of you is that you refuse to acknowledge any of the positive things that had started to show themselves this year and get obscured by the way this season has ended. This team started off slow, but after that inital period where they struggled to find themselves, they really did start to play better, even if they didn't always win. That's a start!

This is the part of the article that should be looked at and acknowledged:

"The Knicks firmly believe the world would view them differently had they not been racked by injuries. Between Feb. 27 and March 10, they lost Jamal Crawford, David Lee and Richardson to injuries that eventually ended their seasons. The three were among the Knicks’ top six scorers, their two leading rebounders and their best playmaker.

From Dec. 18 to March 3, the Knicks went 19-16. Their record never approached .500, but they occupied eighth place in the Eastern Conference on March 10 and remained in the playoff race until the past two weeks, when the injuries became too much to overcome.

That, Richardson said, is why this team should not be viewed as “the same old Knicks.”

In a period of about 12 days this team lost 3 of it's best players and that came at a time when this team had a chance to peak. They had just had their 1st winning month and Mar. had more home games. They had a chance to pick up a good amount of wins in that time period. This totally changed the way this season is perceived. BUT they kept playing hard, even tho they lost many of the games, they still fought in most of the games they played. Many of the games were lost in the last minutes. They stayed united and didn't give up. That's a very positive sign for this team going forward.
BasketballJones
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4/12/2007  10:12 AM
They are a team that is easily angered by hamburgers.
https:// It's not so hard.
newyorknewyork
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4/12/2007  10:20 AM
nixluva - The knicks won't get the benifit of the doubt because of what has happend over the past few years.

The only thing that can make people see things the way you see them is if we were to win a lot more games.

Anyway Lee, Balkman, Collins have showed that they are strong glue type pieces going forward. Im hoping Morris becomes the shotblocking banger we need around Curry and with Lee. We need more consistant outside shooting at SG & G/F, and we need a playmaking PG. I don't see us fixing all our problems all these problems in this offseason though. We also need Curry to be a bigger force in the rebounding department but if he can't do that then he needs to be better than a 19pt scorer. He needs to develop into a 24-28pt scorer who can pass. If he could be that then he can be forgiven for a lot of his defense and rebounding deficiencies.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
djsunyc
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4/12/2007  10:20 AM
are the knicks a young team that's learning and growing or are they the atlanta hawks?

i bet atlanta fans every year say the same thing...well, they're young and they're going to get better. IF we go get this guy or IF etc, we'll turn it around. but they don't. they continue on their same path even tho the players grow a year older and get more experience.

why?

b/c all this stuff about team building, chemistry, those are all byproducts of a roster that's put together correctly. teams make changes every year and some just click. i don't really think that it takes that much time to "learn" how to be a team. if this team swapped marbury out for andre miller, they're a better team. why? b/c andre fits this team better. same thing for atlanta, they need a point guard but don't have one, that's pretty much the main reason why they can't win games (like us).

mike james had a phenomenal statistical season last year but toronto blew. tj ford comes aboard and it's a completely different team.

learning, chemistry, again, imho, are just byproducts of a well constructed team. and that's something we're not as evidenced by our record. so many young teams (the bulls, the raps) win games. with all our vets (backcourt had 15 years experience entering this season), we can't get over .500. why is it so tough when it really shouldn't be? especially in the east?

lb was the best thing to happen to these players b/c they came into the season focused and ready to prove lb was wrong. if everyone was on the same page like that, and everyone came into camp ready to go, why don't we win?

the bulls went 30-52 in 02/03, including 27 wins at home. everyone was excited.
the next season, they won 23 games.
the won 47 in 04/05 b/c they added ben and deng to the mix and subtracted others.

i know people want to be optimistic but it ain't about hope here. it's about putting together a well constructed roster of complimentary parts.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 04-12-2007 10:26 AM]
BlueSeats
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4/12/2007  10:20 AM
Seasons that are all about hope for the future are not typically good seasons.
TrueBlue
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4/12/2007  10:22 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

are the knicks a young team that's learning and growing or are they the atlanta hawks?

i bet atlanta fans every year say the same thing...well, they're young and they're going to get better. IF we go get this guy or IF etc, we'll turn it around. but they don't. they continue on their same path even tho the players grow a year older and get more experience.

why?

b/c all this stuff about team building, chemistry, those are all byproducts of a roster that's put together correctly. teams make changes every year and some just click. i don't really think that it takes that much time to "learn" how to be a team. if this team swapped marbury out for andre miller, they're a better team. why? b/c andre fits this team better. same thing for atlanta, they need a point guard but don't have one, that's pretty much the main reason why they can't win games (like us).

mike james had a phenomenal statistical season last year but toronto blew. tj ford comes aboard and it's a completely different team.

learning, chemistry, again, imho, are just byproducts of a well constructed team. and that's something we're not as evidenced by our record. so many young teams (the bulls, the raps) win games. with all our vets (backcourt had 15 years experience entering this season), we can't get over .500. why is it so tough when it really shouldn't be? especially in the east?

lb was the best thing to happen to these players b/c they came into the season focused and ready to prove lb was wrong. if everyone was on the same page like that, and everyone came into camp ready to go, why don't we win?

INJURIES
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
nixluva
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4/12/2007  10:38 AM
Well it all depends on how MUCH winning you think is reasonable to expect. I think this team had reached a point where it was playing at about a .500 level. I feel confident that this team would've improved on that if NOT for the injuries (TrueBlue). It's not a matter of just looking at the final record this year and ignoring how this team was actually playing before the injuries eventually took effect.

We all saw what this team was. They would win one and lose one. That isn't great, but it was progress for a team that hadn't played at a .500 level before. They may have never made up for the awful start they had in going 6-11, but I think they could've done much better than this. On the 10th of Mar. the Knicks were 29-34 with 19 games left. If they went 10-9 rest of the way, which is reasonable, they end up 39-43. Is that not a reasonable assumption for this team? That would be below what I wanted to see, but still respectable for this team.
BlueSeats
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4/12/2007  10:44 AM
Remember after isiah acquired marbury and Crawford our backcourt was "set" for years to come and all we had to do was get rid of Kurt Thomas?

Then he acquired Curry, Frye and Lee in one off-season and our frontcourt was supposedly "set" for years to come and now we have to overhaul our backcourt.

Or perhaps our backcourt and frontcourt is set but we need an upgarde at SF because the saviour who was supposed to tie everything together and make it fit doesn't himself fit in.

In truth we still have no idea who are keepers yet and if they can work together for real. Nothing is "set".
TrueBlue
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4/12/2007  10:48 AM
Posted by nixluva:

Well it all depends on how MUCH winning you think is reasonable to expect. I think this team had reached a point where it was playing at about a .500 level. I feel confident that this team would've improved on that if NOT for the injuries (TrueBlue). It's not a matter of just looking at the final record this year and ignoring how this team was actually playing before the injuries eventually took effect.

We all saw what this team was. They would win one and lose one. That isn't great, but it was progress for a team that hadn't played at a .500 level before. They may have never made up for the awful start they had in going 6-11, but I think they could've done much better than this. On the 10th of Mar. the Knicks were 29-34 with 19 games left. If they went 10-9 rest of the way, which is reasonable, they end up 39-43. Is that not a reasonable assumption for this team? That would be below what I wanted to see, but still respectable for this team.



Being that they were one of the most deep teams in the league according to your own opinion, shouldn't they have beat Seattle, Portland, Orlando, Sixers and NOK all home games with what they had left vs the depths of those teams they were playing?


If they would have, they would have 37wins with 2 more wins left to achieve according to your 19gms remaining projection record.



Do not deviate from what am asking you this time stay on point and answer the ?.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 04-12-2007 09:52 AM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
MS
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4/12/2007  10:48 AM
Morris stinks, he doesn't block shots or rebound, did you see him at kentucky, he was label as a questionable worker that didn't play with passion, not someone we need. Include him in a package, good pick nice asset for now
Knicks’ Biggest Success: Learning to Be a Team

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