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First off-season move: Cut the umbilical cord between Curry and Crawford!
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Cash
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4/11/2007  10:15 PM
I'm not sure which one is the mommy and which one is the baby, but it needs to be cut.

As much as might be said about their connection as players, it is a disaster for this team. If we are going to build around Curry, well then we need to surround him with players that can make up for his deficiencies. Crawford is a poor defender, low fg% shooter, poor rebounder, and turn over prone. He only complements Curry as far as the entry pass, and we need to get better players that can do this.

For one, Mardy collins has shown the ability to throw the entry pass. He is also a strong, smart defender. He seems like an intelligent player.

Nate has shown the ability to hit shots at a much higher percentage than Crawford, and he has the potential to be a much better defender.


And for those of you who think that trading crawford will deter free agents from coming here, well you need to consider the fact that we have zero cap room. We aren't getting any free agents anytime soon. And by the time we might be able too, we most likely won't even have the same management. Additionally Curry is good friends with both nate and Q, and likes IT.

Thus, our first off-season move. Just cut the cord!
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Cookdcokehop
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4/11/2007  10:36 PM
You could subtract 10 wins if we did not have Crawford. You can subtract even more if we did not have Curry. In other words they are not going anywhere.
Cash
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4/11/2007  10:44 PM
Well in this post, I said we are not subtracting Curry. However if you think you can subtract 10 wins without Crawford you are crazy. We won 23 games last year. Can we subtract 10 wins from that? What about this year? Can we subtract 10 wins from the wins we have this year?

You do realize that Crawford has never been on a team that has won more than 33 games in a season, this one included?

Crawford is a poor rebounder. He shoots a very low percentage from the field. He turns the ball over a lot compared to his assists. He is a very poor defender. How can this possibly mesh with a guy like Curry that has a lot of the same deficiencies. We need to find much better solutions than Crawful.

So are you going to say that making a team around two very low Iq players amd poor defenders like Curry and Crawford will ever have a winning record?
EnySpree
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4/11/2007  10:48 PM
This is not a situation where they are hurting the team. The guys like craw and same goes for curry. Their relationship on the court us called chemistry. Craw and marbs have the same chemistry going on. Lee plays well with this group especially curry.

The knicks have to build on that. Chemistry is building. Isiah has to get rid of bad chemistry guys like francis and frye and get more guys that go with what works. A healthy backcourt minus francis and a rookie from this draft works.

The front court needs a guy better than frye and lee with the same motor and fight that balkman and lee have. The knicks need a scorer and all around player at the 3.

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Queeniepop
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4/11/2007  11:02 PM
Posted by EnySpree:


The front court needs a guy better than frye and lee with the same motor and fight that balkman and lee have

THAT GUY IS JOAKIM NOAH...doh!

Realistically, we need a shotblocker pretty badly (intimidating)- if Rasheed wasnt such a head case, I think he would be AWESOME next to Eddy. If Lee could play better D and he is certainly athletic enough to block shots, maybe he could become a little more Boozer-ish. And "underachieving route could be for Drew Gooden and the boring vet PG Eric Snow (reminiscient of LB with Mardy "Mc Kie" Collins and Eric Snow) for Francis (they need a PG like that...a scorer, penetrator and he is a decent rebounder as well).

If Denver would trade us Nene for God knows what, that may be a good thing.

I understand what your saying Enyspree, but we also need someone with skill and D to play next to Eddy...JO is a great choice but both Frye and Lee go in that deal along with Francis for JO, Tinsley or Dunleavy or Murphy. We dont got the goodz for KG.


The knicks need a scorer and all around player at the 3.

THAT GUY IS COREY BREWER or JEFF GREEN...crap!

Realistically, Frye and Malik for Artest...I am VERY afraid but he's the perfect guy. I would also include Gerald Wallace- but we aint got no goodz to get him.


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Cash
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4/11/2007  11:06 PM
Well their chemistry has definetely not hurt the knicks. But you are confusing chemistry on the offensive end for players that complement each other overall. Crawford does not complement Curry in any way outside of the entry pass. They are both very bad defenders and rebounders. They are also both very low basketball IQ players. They also both turn the ball over alot.

The cord needs to be cut. You can surround Curry with players that can rebound(to make up for his inability to), play better defense, and play smarter. Both robinson and collins play better defense than Crawful, rebound better, have higher basketball iq's, and collins has the potential to make the better entry pass. Nate spreads the floor better because he is a much higher percentage shooter than crawful's terrible .400. Also, Both of these guys are very, very young and still have room to improve, whearas crawful who will be entering his 8th season is done developing as a player. Any improvement from his from this point on will be very little.
Anji
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4/11/2007  11:44 PM
First off-season move, get rid of Crawford???? LOL.............
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EnySpree
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4/12/2007  12:00 AM
Well somebody better than balkman and lee would have to mean better defense. Jermaine oneal would definately be nice. David lee and channing? Sigh. I don't care about channing but I don't like the idea of losing lee. If it came down to it I guess I will just have to get the lee jersey and just admire it just like I do my mason, oak, and camby jerseys.

As far as the backcourt, I think mardy can make up for craw on defense. Knicks need craws abilities on offense. If the knicks need to clamp down they got mardy and marbs! Lol.

I'm saying if the knicks can get affalo(sp?) you gotta do it. He can take francis spot and step in when its his time.

Speakin of the draft picks we have the bulls. Knicks could have had tyrus Thomas, who us the shot blocker the knicks crave. This year with the knicks record they could have been in better position to get Jeff green or brewer. Argh! All this for curry. Paxson is a prick cuz he probably was not budging on his end till isiah dropped the lottery protection.

Anyway, knicks still have a shot at filling needs. Its been a tough unlucky road for these knicks but isiah still has plenty of room to make the team better.
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Allanfan20
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4/12/2007  12:16 AM
I'm gonna have to go with Cash on this one and I'll even take it further by saying that Crawfords ability to pass it in the post to Curry is overrated, b/c he's gotton a WHOLE LOT of turnovers attempting to do just that. Yes, the two have chemistry, but what's chemistry worth if they can't win games, don't play defense, Crawford takes horrible shots and Curry can't pass outta the post? If you're gonna build around Curry, you need a superior defender to start next to Curry, who can hit some outside shots, and you need other guard shooters who can defend and pass. This is all simply b/c you have to make up for everything, and it's a lot, that Curry lacks.

Or we can be smart and not build around Curry and make be open to trading him for someone that fits better into the team concept.
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Solace
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4/12/2007  12:54 AM
If we didn't have Curry this season, I think we have the same record. Without Crawford, I think we're a few games worse. We have a deep team, and for almost every one on the team, we seem to perform equally whether they're in the lineup or not. The only major difference appears to be when we have BOTH Lee and Crawford out of the lineup. Otherwise, we seem like we're the same poor team, or even more efficient with a shorter rotation.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
EnySpree
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4/12/2007  12:59 AM
Who out there is better than craw? I agree that craw is turnover prone and his shot selection totally gags me. I'm looking around for better alternatives but all I can find are pretty much untouchable players. The only one I can see that could be available is Jason Richardson.

Priorities. The knicks need to get tougher inside first. After that the knicks could look to screw around with the backcourt.
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Bonn1997
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4/12/2007  7:46 AM
Posted by Solace:

If we didn't have Curry this season, I think we have the same record. Without Crawford, I think we're a few games worse.
Agreed about Curry. I'm not sure about Crawford though. It would only be a few games at most.


[Edited by - bonn1997 on 04-12-2007 07:48 AM]
nixluva
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4/12/2007  9:08 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Solace:

If we didn't have Curry this season, I think we have the same record. Without Crawford, I think we're a few games worse.
Agreed about Curry. I'm not sure about Crawford though. It would only be a few games at most.


[Edited by - bonn1997 on 04-12-2007 07:48 AM]

Without the injuries? Obviously that skewed the record. This team wasn't going to end up with this many losses if they remained healthy, so why not be fair about it and qualify that statement a bit?

I believe that this team can survive and thrive minus Jamal IF they get the right player to replace him. However despite his inefficient play he does provide a certain aspect that is hard to replace. He can be unstoppable at times, which he showed this season. He was more frequently taking the ball inside against teams and KILLING them with his penetration. If he continued to develop that part of his game, he would've been a VERY key asset in the playoff push this year. Besides Steph, the only other guy we have that can create his own shot in a similar way is Nate. However Nate isn't the passer that Jamal is and he might even be a worse defender, since he misses assignments and takes chances.

I'm torn sometimes when it comes to Jamal. I think we can keep him and improve the team by adding another SG/SF with size who can stroke it for a higher % and defend better. I get the feeling that Isiah is gonna keep Jamal and at most maybe look to move Frye and maybe Nate. The way he treated Frye this year, you get the idea that he's no longer one of his guys. He doesn't do the things that this team needs from a 4. I also get the idea that he doesn't view Lee as a starting 4 either. I think he brought in Morris to see what he's got and see if he's a guy who can bring that tough presence. He's definitely looking for that Oakley type that can get Curry's back.

One route Isiah could take, would be to sign Matt Carroll for part of the MLE and use the draft pick to take Sean Williams.
MS
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4/12/2007  10:00 AM
This crawford and substracting 10 wins is the biggest joke i have ever hear, he played 25 games this season where he shot an average of about 35% while playing no defense. Crawford wins you more games than you lose.

Is it really by accident when the bulls got rid of crawford they suddenly increased their win total. the guy loses you more than he wins. The knicks have sucked all three years he has been here, he needs to go, but isiah will never move him there lies the problem. Isiah doesn't know how to really manage because he is to close with certain players.

Player that depend on others for success are not worth two lottery selection, period....

We are building on chemistry between players two of which can't play any defense and you want to start these guys. There is a reason we are always behind.

IF we were healthy and you played this team, we would have been at .500.

Marbury/Collins
Q/Nate
Balkman
Lee/Jefferies
Curry/Fyre

Our first order of business is getting rid of jamal and channing and getting whatever you can because turnover prone players that don't play defense kill you. How can you be 6'5 get by anyone and shot 40%? Thats disgraceful. At least two times a game he takes an ill advised shot that turns into face break points.....

I would rather have stevenson than crawford, anyone that plays defense is an upgrade. If collins learns how to shoot its not even close.
TheGame
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4/12/2007  10:17 AM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Solace:

If we didn't have Curry this season, I think we have the same record. Without Crawford, I think we're a few games worse.
Agreed about Curry. I'm not sure about Crawford though. It would only be a few games at most.


[Edited by - bonn1997 on 04-12-2007 07:48 AM]

Without the injuries? Obviously that skewed the record. This team wasn't going to end up with this many losses if they remained healthy, so why not be fair about it and qualify that statement a bit?

I believe that this team can survive and thrive minus Jamal IF they get the right player to replace him. However despite his inefficient play he does provide a certain aspect that is hard to replace. He can be unstoppable at times, which he showed this season. He was more frequently taking the ball inside against teams and KILLING them with his penetration. If he continued to develop that part of his game, he would've been a VERY key asset in the playoff push this year. Besides Steph, the only other guy we have that can create his own shot in a similar way is Nate. However Nate isn't the passer that Jamal is and he might even be a worse defender, since he misses assignments and takes chances.

I'm torn sometimes when it comes to Jamal. I think we can keep him and improve the team by adding another SG/SF with size who can stroke it for a higher % and defend better. I get the feeling that Isiah is gonna keep Jamal and at most maybe look to move Frye and maybe Nate. The way he treated Frye this year, you get the idea that he's no longer one of his guys. He doesn't do the things that this team needs from a 4. I also get the idea that he doesn't view Lee as a starting 4 either. I think he brought in Morris to see what he's got and see if he's a guy who can bring that tough presence. He's definitely looking for that Oakley type that can get Curry's back.

One route Isiah could take, would be to sign Matt Carroll for part of the MLE and use the draft pick to take Sean Williams.

That is the bottomline. IT likes Crawford, Marbury likes Crawford, and Curry likes Crawford. Crawford is not going anywhere, unless it is in a trade for a major upgrade, like a Ray Allen or Rashard Lewis or Carter.

I would really like to see if we could get Seattle's pick. I wonder would they consider a trade of Frye, Crawford, Nate, and our pick (and maybe a future protected pick) for Ray Allen and Seattle's 1st round pick. Nate and Crawford are local heroes who would boost attendance and I don't think Seattle can financially afford to pay Lewis and Allen max money. We could then add Brewer and Allen to our team and we instantly become one the top-6 teams in the East. I doubt Seattle would do it, but we can hope.

[Edited by - thegame on 04-12-2007 10:17 AM]
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MS
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4/12/2007  10:25 AM
Thats a great idea on ray allen, i think they would be more open to do that considering lewis is much younger and it would give them some flexibility and a center to go with wilcox and lewis
Anji
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4/12/2007  10:39 AM
SO let me get this right, we need to get rid of Crawford and Nate, but they are worth in part the sonics pick and Ray allen................LOL, Chicken that lays golden eggs syndrome.
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imanheim
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4/12/2007  10:40 AM
i hope by 'entry pass' people are considering the alley-oop play which absolutely no one on the Knicks can throw to Curry besides Craw. It is a relatively high percentage play that gets the crowd going and I like it suckas.
MS
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4/12/2007  10:46 AM
actually you can always move ray allen, crawford addition by substraction, loren woods is weak, and nate is a child, although he can hit a three with consistency. so if we can move someone in the deal besides nate fine, but we need to get rid of crawford......

I would if the hawks are down on josh smith after he threaten to kill a teammate, maybe we can make the move for him
Anji
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4/12/2007  10:50 AM
Posted by MS:

This crawford and substracting 10 wins is the biggest joke i have ever hear, he played 25 games this season where he shot an average of about 35% while playing no defense. Crawford wins you more games than you lose.

Is it really by accident when the bulls got rid of crawford they suddenly increased their win total. the guy loses you more than he wins. The knicks have sucked all three years he has been here, he needs to go, but isiah will never move him there lies the problem. Isiah doesn't know how to really manage because he is to close with certain players.
LOL, how did you get so twisted on JC??? Yes it is really an accident the bulls got rid of JC and started to win. IF by accident you mean Basically the whole team changing, then maybe yeah. Maybe it was Pippen getting traded, Pippen was why the lost. Or maybe it was because Jay williams wrapped his leg around a tree............. wait that was in the offseason. Well I'm pretty sure I can make up some like you. LOL

Crawford does more for the knicks then LoserBury and QBert combinded!!!!!!!!
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
First off-season move: Cut the umbilical cord between Curry and Crawford!

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