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Why Isiah Really is a Loser! Injuries Hit Everyone Just as Hard!
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MS
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4/4/2007  10:34 AM
If we lose to the Bobcats and Philly there is a chance both those teams jump ahead of us...But Isiah has proven to be a loser ever since he stepped off the court. Now that the team has collapse all Thomas can do is blame the officials along with injuries. Like other teams haven't had them just as bad, and the Knicks didn't get to play The Lakers without Kobe, Kwame, Luke, The Heat without Wade/Shaq, the Nets without two starters, the Sonics without Lewis, etc.....

While Isiah is complaining about injuries

Knicks: Crawford 58/82 Lee 56?/82 Jefferies Will play 56 suspension don't count Franics doesn't count Frye 71/82 Q 49/82 (Isiah knew he was going to need the surgery)

Nets: RJ 58/82 Kristic 23/82

Bobcats: Missing Brevin Knight 48/82, Sean May 45/82, and Okafur 70/82

Hawks: Joe Johnson 57/82, Marvin Williams 66/82, Josh Childress (55/82) Lue 58/82

Warriors: Davis 65/82 53/82 Murphy 43/82 missed almost the entire first half when he played for them

Heat: Williams 64/82 Wade 46/82 Shaq 45/82

Clippers: Cassel 55/82 Livingston 54/82

Hornets: Peja 13/82 Paul 67/82 Jackson 58/82 West 54/82

Blazers: Randolf 68/82, Brandon Roy 62/82 DMILES lost for the year

Sonics: Allen 55/82 Lewis 61/82

Wizards: Butler 63/82, Jamison 70/82

Celtics: Paul Pierce 50/82

Lakers: Odom 57/82 Walton 62/82 Brown 48/82

I wonder why the players aren't held accountable for their lackluster efforts and sense of entitlement throughout the year?
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buddapaw
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4/4/2007  10:52 AM
Why not try something new...................













Like root for a new team
"Low Percentage Shots r US, these are our Knicks" "NY KNICKS the cure for basketball fanatic"
nixluva
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4/4/2007  10:56 AM
I don't get your point! We're not talking about losing guys at different times during the course of the year. We're talking about losing them at the SAME TIME! We're also talking about a team that is relying upon guys with little experience and with less skills. In particular the skills we need most. Our two top deep threats and our top rebounder. It's no small thing to have them all out at the same time.

This isn't to say that we're letting the team off the hook. Isiah hasn't done that. He's been preaching for this team to fight hard til the last. FOr the most part the team has been doing that. I really don't see what your point is. The team has been playing hard, but lately they've just lost games. Many in the last possession of the game. So who hasn't been holding the players accountable?

You're act is getting tired now. You don't even have a solid point to make. Many of the teams you mentioned aren't winning games either, so I still don't see your point in that regard.
buddapaw
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4/4/2007  10:58 AM
Posted by nixluva:

I don't get your point! We're not talking about losing guys at different times during the course of the year. We're talking about losing them at the SAME TIME! We're also talking about a team that is relying upon guys with little experience and with less skills. In particular the skills we need most. Our two top deep threats and our top rebounder. It's no small thing to have them all out at the same time.

This isn't to say that we're letting the team off the hook. Isiah hasn't done that. He's been preaching for this team to fight hard til the last. FOr the most part the team has been doing that. I really don't see what your point is. The team has been playing hard, but lately they've just lost games. Many in the last possession of the game. So who hasn't been holding the players accountable?

You're act is getting tired now. You don't even have a solid point to make. Many of the teams you mentioned aren't winning games either, so I still don't see your point in that regard.



Hey Nix, why even bother? A simple root for a team you like that is in a better position in his eyes will suffice

[Edited by - buddapaw on 04-04-2007 10:58 AM]

[Edited by - buddapaw on 04-04-2007 10:59 AM]
"Low Percentage Shots r US, these are our Knicks" "NY KNICKS the cure for basketball fanatic"
tkf
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4/4/2007  11:05 AM
what is your point? with the exception of the wizzards and lakers, all of those teams records are either slightly better by a game or two or worse than the knicks. The lakers have the best player in the game, the wizzards are not doing too bad with a healthy arenas and Jamison for most of the year.

Are you really counting Walton and Kwame Brown as key players that can decide a season for the lakers? come on man....
If we lose to the Bobcats and Philly there is a chance both those teams jump ahead of us...But Isiah has proven to be a loser ever since he stepped off the court.

so that wipes out everything he has done well, from having a winning record as a coach to drafting good players, to developing good players? all of that goes out of the window?
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Pharzeone
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4/4/2007  11:16 AM
Pointless thread, since atleast I know of two teams where injury has been talked alot about by the GMs and coaches (Nets, Hawks). I am not sure about the rest but I can almost be certain that injuries were complained about by those organizations. Especially with the Nets where Franks is getting a pass by many in the media because of the Net injuries although no one really points out that there record was sub .500 when RJ and Kristic was there. I give Chris Russo and Evan Roberts for bringing up that point.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
TMS
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4/4/2007  11:33 AM
Posted by MS:

If we lose to the Bobcats and Philly there is a chance both those teams jump ahead of us...But Isiah has proven to be a loser ever since he stepped off the court. Now that the team has collapse all Thomas can do is blame the officials along with injuries. Like other teams haven't had them just as bad, and the Knicks didn't get to play The Lakers without Kobe, Kwame, Luke, The Heat without Wade/Shaq, the Nets without two starters, the Sonics without Lewis, etc.....

While Isiah is complaining about injuries

Knicks: Crawford 58/82 Lee 56?/82 Jefferies Will play 56 suspension don't count Franics doesn't count Frye 71/82 Q 49/82 (Isiah knew he was going to need the surgery)

Nets: RJ 58/82 Kristic 23/82

Bobcats: Missing Brevin Knight 48/82, Sean May 45/82, and Okafur 70/82

Hawks: Joe Johnson 57/82, Marvin Williams 66/82, Josh Childress (55/82) Lue 58/82

Warriors: Davis 65/82 53/82 Murphy 43/82 missed almost the entire first half when he played for them

Heat: Williams 64/82 Wade 46/82 Shaq 45/82

Clippers: Cassel 55/82 Livingston 54/82

Hornets: Peja 13/82 Paul 67/82 Jackson 58/82 West 54/82

Blazers: Randolf 68/82, Brandon Roy 62/82 DMILES lost for the year

Sonics: Allen 55/82 Lewis 61/82

Wizards: Butler 63/82, Jamison 70/82

Celtics: Paul Pierce 50/82

Lakers: Odom 57/82 Walton 62/82 Brown 48/82

I wonder why the players aren't held accountable for their lackluster efforts and sense of entitlement throughout the year?

i don't get your point here... none of those teams other than the Lakers, Heat & Wizards are legitimate playoff contenders... the rest have struggled w/consistency all year long just like the Knicks have... if you think having several of your key players out with injury for stretches of the season doesn't negatively effect a team, you're kidding yourself... what sets good teams apart from the also rans is the fact that they have enough depth to offset those missing players & win games despite their key players being out, but even still they can't have 4 of their main guys out at the same time & expect prolonged success in this league because the players & competition are too good on this level... the Knicks weren't a good team before the injuries & they're certainly not one now, but to think their injuries shouldn't be hurting their chances of winning games right now is ridiculous.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
MS
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4/4/2007  11:40 AM
Actually I think Walton on this team would be a huge upgrade at the three considering he does a little of everything. Losing that kids ability to facilitate and run an offense killed that team....

Isiah hasn't said anything about Lee being out, lots of talk about Jamal he gives the kid to much credit and Lee not enough he has the luxury of having a lot of different players available that other teams just don't. In the depth department we are as good as anyone by position, our parts may be redudant but other teams don't have that luxury.

My point is simple, Isiah has brought in a lot of players that are selfish with agendas, and watching the team play with guys like balkman and collins as opposed to other player like francis, and crawford has been a pleasure. Isiah is always making up a new excuse, about a new injury, officiating, free throw shooting etc.....

The men doesn't hold guys accountable when he should, never preaches defense, no preaches taking care of the ball, he wants to be the suns of the east and doesn't have one guy that really takes care of the ball, then he wants to run half court sets and force feed eddy.

I don't think it would kill the guy to say, Eddy needs to do a better job of rotating, rebounding the ball, protecting the rim, not being careless with the ball. I don't need him chewing out Nate, and only Nate. This team hasn't really learned how to play ball.

They are in games right now because of energy and hustle, Rose, Collins, Balkman, Jefferies these guys have limited abilities on offense but what this coach hasn't been able to crasp is that Eddy Curry needs to be on the court for 30minutes no more, we don't need nate out of control we need him to space the floor, jefferies needs more time defending the power foward, frye is better at center when he actually gets spot up opportunities, Balkman should have been playing 25 minutes all year, francis is a disgrace and is acting classless as usual, you don't play defense jamal you shouldn't play. Until he actually begins to hold player to a higher standard we are going to continue to act like we are a good team, and blow wins against subpar talent, and get ourselves in holes we can't dig out of...INJURIES ARE NOT THE REASON THIS TEAM IS IN THE DUMPS
kam77
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4/4/2007  11:49 AM
Isiah hasn't said anything about Lee being out

Oh come off it.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
TMS
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4/4/2007  12:00 PM
The men doesn't hold guys accountable when he should, never preaches defense, no preaches taking care of the ball, he wants to be the suns of the east and doesn't have one guy that really takes care of the ball, then he wants to run half court sets and force feed eddy.

I don't think it would kill the guy to say, Eddy needs to do a better job of rotating, rebounding the ball, protecting the rim, not being careless with the ball. I don't need him chewing out Nate, and only Nate. This team hasn't really learned how to play ball.

a coach sometimes has to handle different personalities differently to get the most out of them... he reems out Nate because he knows the kid is as tough as nails & won't take it personally... that's the way he gets throught to Nate because he's so damn hard headed... a guy like Eddy needs to be handled by stroking his ego so he gains more confidence, otherwise he tends to fall back into the background & pout... Steph needs to be handled more delicately because he tends to shut you out & just do his own thing if you're coming at him strong & taking a jab at his ego... every player on this team needs to be handled a certain way... Isiah's trying to manage all these personalities while keeping these guys focused on the game & what they're supposed to be doing on the court... that's a coach's job... it's very easy to say you shouldn't have to motivate guys to play hard when they're making all the money they're making, but the fact is you do... these guys aren't the average joe like me & you... a lot of them have been star players all their lives, so screaming & yelling at them like you would some reserve bench player is not going to do any good sometimes.

ever watch that movie "Drumline"? remember that scene when Nick Cannon is teaching the white kid how to bang on the drum? "you can't just bang on the drum... u gotta BANG on the drum... work it... you know what i'm saying?" ok, bad analogy ... but you know what i'm talking about.

i agree w/u though that he needs to stop coddling Eddy so much & i'm hoping he's challenging him in practice to step up his defense & rebounding... but saying stuff to the papers & embarassing him won't do him any good IMO.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
MS
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4/4/2007  12:06 PM
Actually he hasn't.....

My question is this, your in one of the tougher places to play in the league, you need hard nosed guys....

Crawford-Has his feelings hurt easily and pretty muchs sucks coming off the bench and takes it personally when he is not starting

Eddy-Is a big child, that doesn't like to work

Nate-Has mental problems and needs to see someone and work through a lot of issues

Francis-notorious around the league for his behavior, has never played defense, always a league leader in techs, said he would retire if the team that drafted him didn't trade him, had a problem with every coach he has ever played for

Jefferies-Mentally soft, has a rep for being someone that folds when he is critiized

You look up at these guys and you have to think who the **** do most of them think they are, Eddy is demanding a trade if isiah isn't back, **** u pal do something before you open your mouth. You have entitlement in this city you fail, plain and simple.

The hardest part of coaching is managing personalities, then why would you bring in guys with quetionable attitudes that don't do well under pressure and can't take it when someone isn't praising them
TMS
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4/4/2007  12:09 PM
Crawford-Has his feelings hurt easily and pretty muchs sucks coming off the bench and takes it personally when he is not starting

that's ridiculous & not even worth commenting on... it's just not the case.
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TMS
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4/4/2007  12:10 PM
The hardest part of coaching is managing personalities, then why would you bring in guys with quetionable attitudes that don't do well under pressure and can't take it when someone isn't praising them

obviously Isiah felt these guys would mesh well together & fill areas on the team that needed to be addressed.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
MS
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4/4/2007  12:16 PM
And I didn't even bring up the french fryes mental toughness

And crawford is true, when larry didn't start him to open up the year he was really hurt by it. and his numbers as a starter and off the bench or alarming, i am sure you have them someone if you want to prove otherwise...

Vin Baker, Mo Taylor, Jalen Rose, he brings in a lot of guys that have trouble messing
nixluva
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4/4/2007  12:19 PM
Isiah DOES hold guys accountable, he just doesn't bash them in the media. It's obvious that he gets on the players. He sure hasn't held back from yanking guys when they aren't doing the job defensively. How about yelling at guys on the bench which he does do.

As far as the guys he's brought in, only a small % are selfish guys that don't play team ball. Q, Lee, Balkman, Collins, Frye, Jared and even Jamal and Steph have been team oriented. I think the overall attitude of the team is a good one.

INJURIES ARE PART of the reason this team has gone on a losing swing. They haven't played this bad since the start of the year and it's a direct correlation to the injuries. They could've won some more of these games, but their margin for error is so slim and they're now relying on guys who don't have the experience or maturity to stay away from bad mistakes.
MS
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4/4/2007  12:27 PM
I don't think they are playing that bad a couple of slips up and couple of breaks didn't go there way they are holding teams to 9pts less since jamals injury, lee is a better defender than frye so i believe a big reason for that is balkman and collins in the lineup.....

Marbury is not a team guy he has played that way for 75% of the season he was selfish every year prior, he calls himself starbury? go back to being starbury?, Crawford give me a break he is so selfish with the ball, Jefferies how can he not be he can't dribble, shoot or finish around the rim....Q, Lee, Balkman, Collins and Frye i will give you, but frye is a big softie that doesn't have the balls to be a success here.
nixluva
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4/4/2007  12:34 PM
Posted by MS:

I don't think they are playing that bad a couple of slips up and couple of breaks didn't go there way they are holding teams to 9pts less since jamals injury, lee is a better defender than frye so i believe a big reason for that is balkman and collins in the lineup.....

Marbury is not a team guy he has played that way for 75% of the season he was selfish every year prior, he calls himself starbury? go back to being starbury?, Crawford give me a break he is so selfish with the ball, Jefferies how can he not be he can't dribble, shoot or finish around the rim....Q, Lee, Balkman, Collins and Frye i will give you, but frye is a big softie that doesn't have the balls to be a success here.

Steph is not selfish, he's a scorer and people aren't willing to accept a PG who is a scorer. However he's not selfish. Since he's been here he's been giving up the ball more than he was previously. He avg'd 9.3 asts for us, his 1st year here and it would've been more if not for the trades. He was sharing the ball a lot and only when it was clear that the other guys couldn't or wouldn't score, as was the case with Anderson, did he take over and try to score more. He has consistently been more of a ball distributor early in games. His highest scoring qtr has been the 3rd, so he's almost never really coming out looking to score at 1st. Steph made a POINT of MAKING Lee shoot the ball last year. He even told him to shoot it if I pass it to you. Clearly you don't have any proof that he's selfish. Most of that is all perception based on media bias.
MS
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4/4/2007  12:45 PM
Yea you have a clue what your talking about

Other than quotes by Shawn Marion, Amare Stoudamire, Kurt Thomas, Tim Thomas, Q, every single net player, Keynon Martin, pretty much every single guy to ever play with him has had something to say i am not going to search through the archives
Elite
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4/4/2007  1:05 PM
if the knicks made the playoffs would you feel guilty? thats my question
Pharzeone
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4/4/2007  1:09 PM
Posted by MS:

Yea you have a clue what your talking about

Other than quotes by Shawn Marion, Amare Stoudamire, Kurt Thomas, Tim Thomas, Q, every single net player, Keynon Martin, pretty much every single guy to ever play with him has had something to say i am not going to search through the archives

Scoring pgs are not popular with guys like Marion and Stoudamire. Although Shawn Marion hasn't seem to improve his game under Nash that much either and he is taking a significant amount more of 3s under Nash.
Marion career with Marbury and Nash:

2001-2002 19.1ppg - Marbury starting pg
2002-2003 21.2ppg - Marbury starting pg
2003-2004 19.0ppg - 1/3 of a season with Marbury as starting pg
2004-2005 19.4ppg - Nash as starting pg
2005-2006 21.8ppg - Nash as starting pg
2006-2007 17.5ppg - Nash as starting pg

But I give you that but looking at the careers before and after of those others you mentioned what's their issue. KT is far less productive as a Sun as when he played with Marbury as a Knick. Is Nash not giving him the ball? TT hasn't and never will live up to his potential. I recall plenty of times that Marbury set up TT only to have him brick balls off the rim. Keynon is one of the biggest jokes, he was unable to do anything with Miller running point either when he was actually playing basketball, I guess you can blame Boykins too.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
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