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Losing Ariza and brining in Jefferies and Francis
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BRIGGS
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4/2/2007  12:03 AM
---that was the difference in playoffs and lottery pick. Although they both cant shoot---balkman and ariza couldve coincided easily. We would be 3 steps forward.
RIP Crushalot😞
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arkrud
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4/2/2007  12:42 AM
Losing Ariza wosnt a big problem.
Getting a load of junk was...
This team still need a big cleanup after buying out 2 players...
hareble...

[Edited by - arkrud on 04-02-2007 12:43 AM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
earthmansurfer
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4/2/2007  3:44 AM
Yes, it was a blunder. Ariza would have added more defense and better offense than Jefferies.
Him and Balkman would have been nice. Thank Larry for two of those moves though.
Francis just hurts the salary cap and team chemistry.

Anyone watching Tyrus tear it up? I have a feeling (if Eddy doesn't turn the corner) we will be hearing
allot about Thomas the next few years, along with this years pick.

Total F UP.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
JesseDark
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4/2/2007  8:13 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

---that was the difference in playoffs and lottery pick. Although they both cant shoot---balkman and ariza couldve coincided easily. We would be 3 steps forward.

Gotta agree with you on this, we would definitely have more offensive production out of the SF spot and not given anything up on D.

Bring back dee-fense
franco12
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4/2/2007  9:11 AM
of late, when I'm watching Orlando, they're constantly mentioning his name- he's all over the place and he's starting to hit mid range jumpers.

I thought it was a bad decision- but I never thought it was as bad a deal as its turned out to be.
TheGame
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4/2/2007  9:13 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

---that was the difference in playoffs and lottery pick. Although they both cant shoot---balkman and ariza couldve coincided easily. We would be 3 steps forward.

I think in two years Balkman is still going to be better but clearly Ariza is someone we should have kept. But the real problem is picking up Francis's contract.
Trust the Process
BRIGGS
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4/2/2007  9:44 AM
Posted by arkrud:

Losing Ariza wosnt a big problem.
Getting a load of junk was...
This team still need a big cleanup after buying out 2 players...
hareble...

[Edited by - arkrud on 04-02-2007 12:43 AM]

I dont know who you've been watching--Ariza has been awesome this year. Whoever made the decision to move a 20 YO like that shouldn't be making personell decisions.I'm not going to kill IT on this although he shouldve had final say.
RIP Crushalot😞
MS
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4/2/2007  9:46 AM
When he plays they win, isiah is finding out something that someone who has won a championship should know, defenders keep you in the game, Rose, Collins, Balkman etc. Ariza was that type of guy......

Blame Larry on that one, he was the guy that knew richardson needed back surgery but nate was worth the risk
martin
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4/2/2007  10:00 AM
Posted by earthmansurfer:

Yes, it was a blunder. Ariza would have added more defense and better offense than Jefferies.
Him and Balkman would have been nice. Thank Larry for two of those moves though.
Francis just hurts the salary cap and team chemistry.

Anyone watching Tyrus tear it up? I have a feeling (if Eddy doesn't turn the corner) we will be hearing
allot about Thomas the next few years, along with this years pick.

Total F UP.

I totally forgot about Larry having GM'ing duty last year.
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earthmansurfer
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4/2/2007  10:20 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by earthmansurfer:

Yes, it was a blunder. Ariza would have added more defense and better offense than Jefferies.
Him and Balkman would have been nice. Thank Larry for two of those moves though.
Francis just hurts the salary cap and team chemistry.

Anyone watching Tyrus tear it up? I have a feeling (if Eddy doesn't turn the corner) we will be hearing
allot about Thomas the next few years, along with this years pick.

Total F UP.

I totally forgot about Larry having GM'ing duty last year.

So, the guy Isiah picked in the second round, that everyone liked, he just decided to ship off for someone that Larry wanted?
Don't play stupid, you know it wasn't Isiah's decision, he was just trying to please the coach.

We all know the moves were instigated by Larry, I can only fault Isiah for listening to him.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
MS
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4/2/2007  10:47 AM
you lets play stupid, your the gm, your trading to a conference rival now they have cap room this summer, and you take on almost 50 million for a player that no one could stand, has problems with his coaches, doesn't play defense, wastes the shotclock and is a selfish player.

You should be fired if you make that trade. One is worst than the next, he made an awful trade for crawford, q, tim thomas, awful signings for jeff and james, so i guess larry was behind those as well
martin
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4/2/2007  10:55 AM
Posted by earthmansurfer:
Posted by martin:
Posted by earthmansurfer:

Yes, it was a blunder. Ariza would have added more defense and better offense than Jefferies.
Him and Balkman would have been nice. Thank Larry for two of those moves though.
Francis just hurts the salary cap and team chemistry.

Anyone watching Tyrus tear it up? I have a feeling (if Eddy doesn't turn the corner) we will be hearing
allot about Thomas the next few years, along with this years pick.

Total F UP.

I totally forgot about Larry having GM'ing duty last year.

So, the guy Isiah picked in the second round, that everyone liked, he just decided to ship off for someone that Larry wanted?
Don't play stupid, you know it wasn't Isiah's decision, he was just trying to please the coach.

We all know the moves were instigated by Larry, I can only fault Isiah for listening to him.

coaches instigate moves all the time, happens with every team, and the GM has the last call on it.

How come Theo and Snow are not on the Knicks?
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Andrew
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4/2/2007  11:01 AM
...you know it wasn't Isiah's decision.

...I can only fault Isiah for listening to him.

Earth...you are contradicting yourself here. If you fault Isiah for listening to LB, then Isiah had to have the final say (decision) in the matter.

The way I see it is LB may have had some part in suggesting the trade, but it's ultimately Isiah's job to scout and evaluate the trade. I doubt the coach has the time to go and see how Francis is playing and investigate how healthy (mentally and physically) he is and how he fits with the long term plan.
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Masterplan
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4/2/2007  11:01 AM
Posted by earthmansurfer:

Don't play stupid, you know it wasn't Isiah's decision, he was just trying to please the coach.

We all know the moves were instigated by Larry, I can only fault Isiah for listening to him.

so isiah *decided* to make the trade to please larry? even though it wasn't his *decision* ?

look, if you had been the GM, what would you have done? i would have said something along the lines of "steve francis? hahahahahaha"
jimimou
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4/2/2007  11:48 AM
Posted by earthmansurfer:
Posted by martin:
Posted by earthmansurfer:

Yes, it was a blunder. Ariza would have added more defense and better offense than Jefferies.
Him and Balkman would have been nice. Thank Larry for two of those moves though.
Francis just hurts the salary cap and team chemistry.

Anyone watching Tyrus tear it up? I have a feeling (if Eddy doesn't turn the corner) we will be hearing
allot about Thomas the next few years, along with this years pick.

Total F UP.

I totally forgot about Larry having GM'ing duty last year.

So, the guy Isiah picked in the second round, that everyone liked, he just decided to ship off for someone that Larry wanted?
Don't play stupid, you know it wasn't Isiah's decision, he was just trying to please the coach.

We all know the moves were instigated by Larry, I can only fault Isiah for listening to him.

isiah has never tried to please anyone but himself. dont believe that he was trying to please Brown - that's BS. as an example, just look at Brown's face in this pic.....



yaeh, he really wanted francis here also....please the "blame" rests on 2 shoulders and they are both connected to one (bobble) head....
earthmansurfer
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4/2/2007  12:34 PM
Larry also wanted to get rid of half the team, right? They finally got rid of him. What I'm saying is this, Isiah had to have given the ok, that is clear. But do you really think that Isiah started this deal on his own? I think it was all Larry, Larry trying to get Stephon out.
Isiah was stupid for listening to him, but in a sense he had to, to appease the NEW coach. He had to give a little, he did, then saw Larry wanting to get rid of almost half the team, that's when they stopped making deals for Larry imo.

Regardless, it was a stupid move, just like no protection on last years pick. I'm just saying Isiah didn't start it, but like an appeasing GM, he signed off on it.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
MS
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4/2/2007  12:45 PM
So he wanted to get rid of James, Mo Taylor, Jalen Rose, Nate Robinson and Marbury. Everyone except Marbury you would have to agree with, I don't really see the issue
BRIGGS
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4/2/2007  6:19 PM
Posted by earthmansurfer:

Larry also wanted to get rid of half the team, right? They finally got rid of him. What I'm saying is this, Isiah had to have given the ok, that is clear. But do you really think that Isiah started this deal on his own? I think it was all Larry, Larry trying to get Stephon out.
Isiah was stupid for listening to him, but in a sense he had to, to appease the NEW coach. He had to give a little, he did, then saw Larry wanting to get rid of almost half the team, that's when they stopped making deals for Larry imo.

Regardless, it was a stupid move, just like no protection on last years pick. I'm just saying Isiah didn't start it, but like an appeasing GM, he signed off on it.

I agree IT probably did not want this move--I think it would be shortsighted to see that--he did draft Trevor. He had a guy who had a 50mm$ contract and probably caved in---this was probably a case of an older guy[lb] who had no time for the younger guy [ta] when he was used to vets. Although threre *could be* alterior motives with IT and JJ. The bottom line it hurt the franchise
RIP Crushalot😞
Swishfm3
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4/2/2007  9:52 PM
That Ariza trade changed the make up of this whole team.

If Ariza DOESN'T get traded.....

~We don't have Francis (Obviously)
~We don't sign Jeffries
~M.Williams or K.Lowly gets drafted INSTEAD OF Balkman.
~Mardy Collins would not be a Knick...which in turn...will not be around to foul Smith and set off that slap fest at the Graden
crzymdups
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4/2/2007  11:45 PM
I think the reason Isiah signed off on the Ariza/Francis trade is that he was on shaky ground at that time with the Anucha case and was maybe trying to apease Larry and probably hoping Francis would get them some cheap wins to make the pick sent to Chicago look better.

Either way, it was a horrendous, awful move and some people here who trash it now were actually happy about it at the time. I was not one of them.

Still, even if Isiah had final sign off, this trade was all about Larry Brown.
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