[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

OT: Dirk Nowitzki - As good as Bird?
Author Thread
technomaster
Posts: 23358
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/30/2003
Member: #426
USA
3/21/2007  11:34 AM
I've been thinking about this topic. When all is said and done - and assuming he wins a championship at some point, will Dirk Nowitzki be mentioned among the all-time greats, especially in comparison to Larry Legend?

Larry averaged 24.3ppg/10rpg/6.3apg in 12 seasons. He was NBA MVP 3 times, and all-nba first team 9 times. He was an all-star in every one. (He sat out 1989)

Dirk's career numbers so far are: 22ppg/8.5rpg/2.5apg in 8 full seasons. He's been all-NBA 1st team the past 2 seasons. He's been an all-star 6 times. Conceivably, his scoring could come close to matching Bird's with a few more "typical" 26ppg seasons.

It's interesting to note that Dirk has never averaged 10.0+rpg, though he managed 9.9 twice. Dirk also has averaged a microscopic 1.9TO/g which is pretty amazing, considering how much he touches the ball. Dirk also averages 3 fewer FGAs per game than Bird, adding to his efficiency as a scorer. Of course, Bird also sported a higher FG% and FT%.

Statistically, Bird is better - but he also played in a different era. But at the end of the day, are they going to be talking about Dirk in the same breath as Bird, as an all-time great?... or is Dirk merely one of the outstanding players of his era (a la Kevin Garnett)?
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
AUTOADVERT
BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
Alba Posts: 41
Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024

3/21/2007  11:39 AM
Bird was a better rebounder, but also an unbelievable passer, and unbelievably clutch.

You can compare them but it's really no comparison. I wanna say it's something like comparing Marbury to Isiah, but I'll give Dirk more credit than that.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
3/21/2007  11:39 AM
he'll have to lead the Mavs to multiple titles before we can have this discussion.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Marv
Posts: 35571
Alba Posts: 69
Joined: 9/2/2002
Member: #315
3/21/2007  11:52 AM
not even in the same stratosphere.

bird, like magic, could have played any of the 5 positions on the court. he enforced his will on a game like only the greatest ever could. he was infinitely tougher than dirk. he played as physically as anyone in the game, then made the unbelievable finesse play the next moment. as clutch as anyone. also very effective on the defensive end.

dirk's career hasn't scratched the surface of bird's.
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
3/21/2007  11:55 AM
i think tehcnomaster meant sue bird.
tomverve
Posts: 21407
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/4/2005
Member: #878
3/21/2007  12:00 PM
Career wise, Dirk is still a notch below Bird. But I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Dirk is approaching a point in his career where he can string together a few Bird-like seasons. He has improved his scoring efficiency and defense by increments over previous seasons, but most notably he's now becoming a dangerous weapon as a passer. The new and improved, and still improving, Dirk is in Bird territory.
help treat disease with your spare computing power : http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/
Killa4luv
Posts: 27774
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
3/21/2007  12:08 PM
Bird was better in an era where the game was much tougher. Could Dirk be as good during the physical play of the 80s and 90s? No. Hes not as good now.

Hes a great player for this era, but he isn't in Bird's league. Dirk is a great scorer and thats pretty much it. Bird, could score, rebound, pass, defend, and he really understood the game at a level that Dirk hasn't displayed thus far.

He is not as good as bird and he is not close. Bird was a complete player and great and many areas of the game.
kam77
Posts: 27664
Alba Posts: 25
Joined: 3/17/2004
Member: #634
3/21/2007  12:12 PM
Dirk is not in the same league as Bird yet but bon't give me this line "Could Dirk be as good during the physical play of the 80s and 90s?"

First, Bird crapped out in the early 90s. He mostly played in the 80s and the 80s were not a tough defensive period. Bird routinely played in games where the scores were in the triple-digits. Dirk routinely plays games where neither team reaches triple-digits.

Bird was better, but not because of the era.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
3/21/2007  12:14 PM
Bird raised the level of his game in the biggest moments... Dirk has notoriously shrinked when the pressure is on... even though the stats may be similar, until he can reverse that reputation, he won't ever come close to Bird's level.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
Alba Posts: 41
Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024

3/21/2007  12:17 PM
I'm not even sure Dirk is as good as Bob McAdoo.
NYKBocker
Posts: 38586
Alba Posts: 474
Joined: 1/14/2003
Member: #377
USA
3/21/2007  12:20 PM
Bird can play and be dominant in any era. Bird was also a better leader than Dirk Diggler.
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
3/21/2007  12:20 PM
Not even close. the difference is GAlactic!!! Bird played during a time where physical play was the call of the day. He also played in a league that was not watered down. Bird was a money player. dirk is good, but he is soft. Bird shot the ball better and passed better, bird was a winner in every sense of the word.
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
TrueBlue
Posts: 29144
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 9/20/2006
Member: #1172

3/21/2007  12:21 PM
The only comparison is shooting.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
3/21/2007  12:35 PM
this is sorta like comparing Stephon Marbury to Isiah Thomas... the career stats may seem similar, but the differences are huge.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Killa4luv
Posts: 27774
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
3/21/2007  12:57 PM
Posted by kam77:

Dirk is not in the same league as Bird yet but bon't give me this line "Could Dirk be as good during the physical play of the 80s and 90s?"

First, Bird crapped out in the early 90s. He mostly played in the 80s and the 80s were not a tough defensive period. Bird routinely played in games where the scores were in the triple-digits. Dirk routinely plays games where neither team reaches triple-digits.

Bird was better, but not because of the era.

Well if triple digit scores are what you use to assess whtether play was pysical or not, I don't know what to tell you.
Triple digit scores or not, the 80s were physical. Not as physical as the early to mid 90's but certainly waaay more physical than now.


TheGame
Posts: 26657
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/15/2006
Member: #1154
USA
3/21/2007  1:02 PM
Dirk's a good player, and maybe even a great player, but Bird was one of the greatest players of all-time. There is really no comparison at this point.
Trust the Process
kam77
Posts: 27664
Alba Posts: 25
Joined: 3/17/2004
Member: #634
3/21/2007  1:05 PM
I don't buy the notion that defense was especially physical in the 80s on the perimeter. Perhaps inside the lane, but on the three-pt arc?

I also don't buy the notion that defenders are less physical with Dirk than they were with Bird. You make it sound like Bird was routinely mugged as he roamed the perimeter.

If you want to say DWade has benefitted from the decreased physicality on the perimeter, i buy that because his game is about slashing to the hoop and getting contact. Dirks game is not really about slashing and getting fouled. Dirks shot would be money in any era. You wouldn't be able to defend it better in the 80s than you can now.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
Alba Posts: 41
Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024

3/21/2007  1:34 PM
Bird had a much better inside game than Dirk. He was an outstanding finisher and he could even back you down with a turnaround J or a jump hook.

Why are we comparing Dirk to one of the ten best players to ever play the game? Bird's bball instincts alone probably make him a top 5 player ever.
franco12
Posts: 34069
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 2/19/2004
Member: #599
USA
3/21/2007  1:38 PM
I don't know- but I think that Bird's celts had a more talented starting five- not flashy talent, but gutsy win it types

I'd take Parish over Dampier

McHale over Howard

DJ over Terry

Aigne vs Harris is a toss up- I thought Aigne was overrated as a player.

Bird vs. Dirk- that would be interesting playstation fodder- but I think Bird was a level better- and he came into the league playing at a high level- dirk is only now elevating his game.

I also think today's NBA is much more competitive than the 80's when the celts went all the time to the finals- I don't think they'd be able to have the team in today's market.
tomverve
Posts: 21407
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/4/2005
Member: #878
3/21/2007  1:41 PM
I don't think people realize how good Dirk is right now. He's more than a great scorer, and across the board, at least statistically, his current season compares favorably to Bird's best statistical season.

Dirk 07
52.8 eFG%, 90.0 FT%, 15.7 rebound rate, 13.2 assist ratio, 8.2 TO ratio, 28.8 PER

Bird 88
52.7 eFG%, 91.6 FT%, 14.0 rebound rate, 18.3 assist ratio, 8.3 TO ratio, 27.8 PER

The similarities are eerie. That's not to say Dirk's season is just as good as Bird's 88 season. But what it does suggest is that there is not a huge difference between Dirk's current level of play and Bird's. You can argue Dirk is not yet at Bird's level, but you can't argue that Dirk isn't in the same stratosphere. Dirk is playing at an MVP level right now.
help treat disease with your spare computing power : http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/
OT: Dirk Nowitzki - As good as Bird?

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy