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extend kudos for isiah's relentless pursuit of mediocrity? (article)
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djsunyc
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3/14/2007  10:38 AM
Extend kudos for Isiah's relentless pursuit of mediocrity? Nooo!
By Larry Dobrow
Special to CBS SportsLine.com

LINK

Like many Knicks fans, upon hearing that coach/GM/smiley guy Isiah Thomas was inked to a contract extension, my first impulse was to retreat into a fetal position in the bathtub and cry.

My second was to call a well-run, long-suffering franchise like the Raptors and ask what kind of incentives (a Toast-R-Oven?) it's offering to would-be bandwagon fans.


Starbury and Co. play harder for Isiah
than for his predecessor -- but they couldn't
possibly have tried any less.


My third was to crank up the local sports radio station and bask in the aural spectacle of outer-borough imbeciles spewing venom while proposing Kevin Garnett-for-Jamal Crawford, Channing Frye and Jerome James swaps.

Oddly, the venom never materialized.

In fact, now that the Knicks have come within yodeling distance of respectability for the first time in two years, there seems to be some pro-Isiah sentiment wafting to and fro. As recently as three months ago, this seemed as likely a scenario as an aardvark mastering conversational German, or a Cablevision-owned team winning a playoff game.

The case for Isiah? His players, most notably Eddy Curry and Stephon Marbury, play harder for him than they have for anybody else. The team looks like a lock for a 15-game improvement over last year's hardwood halftards.

Wearing his GM propeller beanie, Isiah has assembled a young core (Curry, Crawford and David Lee) that should ensure some minimal level of competitiveness for the next few seasons. Madison Square Garden (motto: "ATMs by every concession stand!") is hopping again, occasionally even on the nights when the Knicks are playing.

The Kool-Aid sure goes down easy enough, don't it? Listen long enough and you can almost lull yourself into believing that .500 is a gift, and Isiah is our bountiful Santa.

Screw that. The contract extension reeks, as does its recipient. It shows, in fact, an almost willful disregard for the intelligence of the franchise's fans.

Yes, his core guys are trying harder than they did under Larry Brown. But without actually changing into nightgowns and treating themselves to a midcourt siesta, could they try any less?

Besides, it's not like this supposed sea change in effort has been consistent. Wins over the Bulls (in December) and Lakers (in both January and February, the first without Kobe in the lineup) were followed the next night by express-mail-it-in jobs against the Sixers, Bobcats and Warriors. One step forward, one step back -- call it the mediocrity foxtrot.

The Curry deal looks like a savvy one, especially now that the Knicks don't figure to finish in the league's bottom 12 teams (which would make the 2007 first-round-pick swap still owed the Bulls a tougher pill to swallow).

He boasts what the less bookish among us might call "mad hopz" in the paint, along with a slate of low-post moves that make him a must for double-team treatment. At the same time, however well this move has worked out, Isiah left the franchise massively exposed by failing to lottery-protect the pick.

Then there's the litany of failed moves that, somehow, seem to have been swept under the rug during the breathless pursuit of an eight seed.

Everybody points to Isiah's acumen in having snared Lee with a late-first round pick acquired from the Spurs in the Nazr Mohammed deal, forgetting that millions of dollars worth of cap-clogging Malik Rose goodness came along with it. Never mind the Crawford sign-and-trade, which shouldn't yet go down in the victory column.

Based on the James and Jared Jeffries signings alone, we should demand that our congresspeople enact legislation barring Isiah from wading into the free-agent waters.

Whatever Isiah's successes in the draft (Lee, Tracy McGrady when he ran the Raptors), they're more than offset by his numerous player-evaluation gaffes.

Isiah acquired Maurice Taylor and eventually bought him out. Isiah acquired Jalen Rose and eventually bought him out. Isiah acquired Penny Hardaway and, in lieu of buying him out, compounded the mistake by packaging him with a promising young'un (Trevor Ariza) for an expensive square peg (Steve Francis).

Then there are the related embarrassments: the alleged sexual-harassment hijinks, Isiah's tough-talking tussles with Bruce Bowen and Carmelo Anthony (which precipitated the girliest brawl since Duff-Richie II). Factor in that the Knicks are the proud owners of the league's highest payroll and have no cap room until the end of the Clinton Administration -- the Chelsea one, not the Hillary one -- and I can't understand the lack of outrage.

Even forgetting these and other much-discussed misdeeds -- Mr. Brown, your platinum-plated limo is waiting for you at the curb -- the contract extension arrives at a particularly peculiar time.

Not to be a doubting Thomas (get it? get it?), but a projected 36 to 37 wins and a low playoff seeding in the oafish Eastern Conference shouldn't prompt anybody to break out the kazoos. Even if the Knicks manage to stick in the seventh or eighth spot in the East, 16 of the league's 30 teams make the playoffs. Congratulations, you're almost average!

Too, this year's Knicks have thrived on the whole us-against-the-universe thing.

They believe that, in no particular order, the media, fans, referees, league officials, Garden ushers and the Kremlin are out to get them. Knowing that they are now ensured a few more years of Isiah's coddling, will the Knicks continue to play with urgency? Given that half the team doesn't do defense on the best of nights, this sets a dangerous precedent.

It's a moot point. This season, Isiah Thomas has performed less than terribly as a coach -- which stands in stark contract to his Indiana tenure, during which he guided 52-win talent to three straight first-round playoff exits. He has succeeded, sort of, in spite of sports' most passive-aggressive owner and a coach who undermined him at every turn.

Nonetheless, the Knicks remain hopelessly middling. Owing to Isiah's salary-cap mismanagement and oops-I-did-it-again wheeling-dealing, they have no more chance of winning an NBA title than of winning a Stanley Cup. That is the goal, right? An NBA title, rather than arrested development in the 40-win range?

Isiah inherited a mess. He has replaced it with a slightly less unsightly one. The bottom line? The floor's still dirty.

Larry Dobrow is a freelance writer based in New York and Maxim Online's regular baseball columnist.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 03-14-2007 10:38 AM]
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K22
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3/14/2007  10:44 AM
Yeah, this thread's going to end well.
-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
arkrud
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3/14/2007  11:04 AM
This guy just telling the truth. Nothing is more boring and sad that the truth.
We need some positives!!! Lock this down. who need the truth?
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Solace
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3/14/2007  11:09 AM
Good article. My favorite part:

Factor in that the Knicks are the proud owners of the league's highest payroll and have no cap room until the end of the Clinton Administration -- the Chelsea one, not the Hillary one -- and I can't understand the lack of outrage.

Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
TrueBlue
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3/14/2007  11:20 AM
If ISAYUGH catches Dobrow on the streets it's gonna be a problem, there's gonna be some West Side Of Chicago Azz kickin going on.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
nixluva
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3/14/2007  11:22 AM
My only issue is that How does Dubrow KNOW that what Isiah has started won't lead to a title contending team? What he's doing is like looking at the sketches an artist makes and deciding that the finished painting won't be very good. How the HECK does he know this? Yes the 1st year and a half was spent trying to make one more try with a bunch of retread vets and Steph, but starting last year this team has been redirected towards a more youthful core that we can move forward with.

Curry, Lee, Frye, Jared, Balkman, Nate, Collins, Q and Jamal is a decent group of young players. Then you have Steph who can provide a solid contribution for a few more years. As the younger guys continue to improve and take over the major load. Depending upon what Isiah decides to do about Francis, we either have a guy who can help to boost our chances in the playoffs or Isiah can look to trade him in the offseason, or let him go. Either way for now he's been a fortunate plus for this team since we've had so much injury. What's wrong with this team at this stage of it's development?

For most of the year they've been playing like a .500 team and isn't that about what we could expect from them? That doesn't mean they cant or won't improve from there. This writer forgets that we have young guys who still have a lot of upside left. They will more than likely get better as they go along.
fishmike
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3/14/2007  11:41 AM
Nixluva, your partially right, but your missing the point. The point is burning every asset you have and spending 5 times what most NBA teams do and ending up with "decent group of young players" is not a good job for a GM.

Thus the "relentless pursuit of mediocrity"
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
MS
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3/14/2007  11:49 AM
earl please spin this into a positive, and let us know that its all lies
arkrud
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3/14/2007  11:55 AM
Posted by nixluva:

My only issue is that How does Dubrow KNOW that what Isiah has started won't lead to a title contending team? What he's doing is like looking at the sketches an artist makes and deciding that the finished painting won't be very good. How the HECK does he know this? Yes the 1st year and a half was spent trying to make one more try with a bunch of retread vets and Steph, but starting last year this team has been redirected towards a more youthful core that we can move forward with.

Curry, Lee, Frye, Jared, Balkman, Nate, Collins, Q and Jamal is a decent group of young players. Then you have Steph who can provide a solid contribution for a few more years. As the younger guys continue to improve and take over the major load. Depending upon what Isiah decides to do about Francis, we either have a guy who can help to boost our chances in the playoffs or Isiah can look to trade him in the offseason, or let him go. Either way for now he's been a fortunate plus for this team since we've had so much injury. What's wrong with this team at this stage of it's development?

For most of the year they've been playing like a .500 team and isn't that about what we could expect from them? That doesn't mean they cant or won't improve from there. This writer forgets that we have young guys who still have a lot of upside left. They will more than likely get better as they go along.

Nobody knows the future.
But intelligent and experienced people can predict things with certain degree of accuracy.
More you know and more experience you have better prediction you can make.
IT is not working in the rocket science area so a lot of people can predict how Knicks will perform for the years to come with pretty good accuracy







[Edited by - arkrud on 03-14-2007 11:56 AM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
franco12
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3/14/2007  12:28 PM
Posted by nixluva:



Curry, Lee, Frye, Jared, Balkman, Nate, Collins, Q and Jamal is a decent group of young players. Then you have Steph who can provide a solid contribution for a few more years. As the younger guys continue to improve and take over the major load. Depending upon what Isiah decides to do about Francis, we either have a guy who can help to boost our chances in the playoffs or Isiah can look to trade him in the offseason, or let him go. Either way for now he's been a fortunate plus for this team since we've had so much injury. What's wrong with this team at this stage of it's development?


Aint nothing wrong with that young core- but which one of them is going to morph into a superstar and take us to a championship?

And if none of them can/or will, where and how do you get a superstar?

Most championship teams get a superstar through the draft.

This year we swap with Chicago. No chance unless you get a arenas/redd type luck pick.

Next year, our young guys probably improve a bit, and we just make the play offs- again, pick mid first round. No chance to get our guy.

Two years out- same thing or maybe its a late lotto pick.

Three years out- oops! We owe the pick unconditionally to Utah- for Stephon Marbury.

Four years out- unless Isiah trades it- will we be bad enough to stink up? Maybe?

Now the only other way I see we can get the superstar talent you need to compete for a championship is in a S&T where a player like a LeBron basically forces the deal- I'm not pinning my hopes on that- and not having cap flexibility makes it much harder, because you have to be able to bluff that without the S&T, he'd sign outright- and the Cavs will call BS on that one if all we have is an MLE to offer up.

Be prepared for a stretch run of 38 win seasons, the 8th slot if we're lucky and a one and done play off series.

Our best hope is to squeak in this year, and have a major break down next season and hope Oden stays a year more in college and we end up with more ping pong balls than anyone else.

sebstar
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3/14/2007  12:38 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Nixluva, your partially right, but your missing the point. The point is burning every asset you have and spending 5 times what most NBA teams do and ending up with "decent group of young players" is not a good job for a GM.

Thus the "relentless pursuit of mediocrity"

And the Knicks were just brimming with assets when he took over the job? Not to cover for his mistakes, but he does deserve some degree of latitude when it comes to inheriting the 2003 Knicks and in conjunction having to deal with this bubbling pressure cooker. I'm not going to pimp for a millionaire, but damn.

I agree with nixluva's premise. Why are people so resolute in their pessimism?... *Cue the cataloging of all bad past moves by the usual suspects*
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
MS
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3/14/2007  12:50 PM
Really they had 22 million of expiring deals in year one and in year two they had close to 9 million, add in draft picks, an expiring kurt thomas would had good value and it wasn't as bleak as you would think.

We were a 37 win team when he took over four years ago and now the future is looking like 45 wins 5 years later with little wiggle room.

Anyone could use the midlevel excetpion, he gets credit for 3 of the worse signgings back to back

Anyone can take on terrible contracts to acquire players and picks, please tell me what he did that was so remarkable and why he deserves any credit.....

Crawford: Please look at the facts he took on 21 million of jerome williams, gave him a 55 million dollar deal above his market at the time and give vin baker a two year deal as a favor to his agent.....So for a player that sucks and never won more than 33 games in his 7 year career you are essentially performing a sign and trade to for his services 16-17 million for a year

Lee: 33 million in contracts to get two picks, lol great

Steph: All the wins he produced we took on 40 million on top of his deal, and then compounded that mistake into francis

Fyre, Jefferies, Robinson: don't show a lot of promise on this team and don't really look like great additions for the future.....

Of course you need to bring these moves up, why do you think Isiah can do anything to really improve the team without sinking it, he hasn't been able to do it so far, so what makes you think he can now
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3/14/2007  12:58 PM
Posted by sebstar:


And the Knicks were just brimming with assets when he took over the job?


Yes, the ability to offer lottery draft picks, Euro prospects and cap space (via expiring contracts and a willingness to eat horrific contracts, like penny) are highly valuable assets to teams who do want to trim payroll and or rebuild (ie, Phoenix, Chicago)

Sincerely ask yourself this question: how many GMs in the league have the permission Isiah has had to trade 4 1st rd picks in 1.5 years, plus take on innumerable contracts otherwise considered "untradable" Marbury, Penny, Mo, Malik, James, Jalen, Penny, to name a few), plus buy late round draft picks for 30M, plus annually hire and fire HOF coaches?

An argument could probably be made that no GM in the history of the league has had the assets at his disposal to do what Isiah has done.
djsunyc
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3/14/2007  1:04 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by sebstar:


And the Knicks were just brimming with assets when he took over the job?


Yes, the ability to offer lottery draft picks, Euro prospects and cap space (via expiring contracts and a willingness to eat horrific contracts, like penny) are highly valuable assets to teams who do want to trim payroll and or rebuild (ie, Phoenix, Chicago)

Sincerely ask yourself this question: how many GMs in the league have the permission Isiah has had to trade 4 1st rd picks in 1.5 years, plus take on innumerable contracts otherwise considered "untradable" Marbury, Penny, Mo, Malik, James, Jalen, Penny, to name a few), plus buy late round draft picks for 30M, plus annually hire and fire HOF coaches?

An argument could probably be made that no GM in the history of the league has had the assets at his disposal to do what Isiah has done.

fans like players on this team and always point to what isiah inherited. but he was able to acquire these players fans like using what, in fact, he did inherit.

we're looking at a man that's spent damn near close to 1/2 a billion dollars for this team today.
kam77
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3/14/2007  1:15 PM
I'll spin a few things if you all want to debate:

Premise A. Isiah has spent too much to get this far.

Agreed. But Dolan made it clear early on that Isiah could use the financial resources of MSG without worry. So when your parents double your allowance, did you start saving all of a sudden or did you spend more? When you have more, you use more of what you have, til Dolan turns the spigot off.

Premise B. We were a 37 win team when he took over four years ago and now the future is looking like 45 wins 5 years later with little wiggle room.

I use the analogy of being on the 37th floor of a building in an elevator going down, vs . being on the 37th floor and going up. You are at exactly the same place but a universe apart in terms of where you're going. Isiah supporters put a lot of stock into the fact that we were not going to maintain 37 wins over time, and instead, we'd continue sloooowly slipping without a sudden stop and change of direction. The consequence of sudden changes is that mistakes are made. But in New York, we CAN sweep certain (not every) mistakes under the rug. Malik Rose and Jerome James are cap clogging the Knick arterial walls after we've already had a coronary and died. You can't do more damage til the arteries have been cleared again.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
djsunyc
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3/14/2007  1:19 PM
Posted by kam77:

I'll spin a few things if you all want to debate:

Premise A. Isiah has spent too much to get this far.

Agreed. But Dolan made it clear early on that Isiah could use the financial resources of MSG without worry. So when your parents double your allowance, did you start saving all of a sudden or did you spend more? When you have more, you use more of what you have, til Dolan turns the spigot off.

Premise B. We were a 37 win team when he took over four years ago and now the future is looking like 45 wins 5 years later with little wiggle room.

I use the analogy of being on the 37th floor of a building in an elevator going down, vs . being on the 37th floor and going up. You are at exactly the same place but a universe apart in terms of where you're going. Isiah supporters put a lot of stock into the fact that we were not going to maintain 37 wins over time, and instead, we'd continue sloooowly slipping without a sudden stop and change of direction. The consequence of sudden changes is that mistakes are made. But in New York, we CAN sweep certain (not every) mistakes under the rug. Malik Rose and Jerome James are cap clogging the Knick arterial walls after we've already had a coronary and died. You can't do more damage til the arteries have been cleared again.

the building has 45 floors.
kam77
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3/14/2007  1:21 PM
45 eh? Thats my pick for next years win total. If they reach that in a year (i admit, its an IF) then i would think there's still room for improvement.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
djsunyc
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3/14/2007  1:23 PM
Posted by kam77:

45 eh? Thats my pick for next years win total. If they reach that in a year (i admit, its an IF) then i would think there's still room for improvement.

well after all the moves and money spent, this franchise's prospects basically comes down to eddy curry.
BlueSeats
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3/14/2007  1:30 PM
Anyone who's studied business or economics understands the concept of 'opportunity costs' which represents opportunities that ones money might otherwise be put to.

One can't simply say Isiah spent "too much" as there's no such thing. But one can say that our assets might have been better utilized differently. For instance by using our high draft picks for ourselves and clearing capspace for the opportunity to acquire a FA stud.

So I really don't care how much money Dolan spends, but I do care that we're still trying to plod through this with low draft picks and misutilized MLEs when we could have been going for the cream of the crops of the draft and free agency. Instead we try to convince ourselves Isiah can get the next Pippen in the second round, or that Curry might turn into Shaq, or that Marbury will soon be an MVP candidate. One can't know such things wont happen, but you need to look at the odds.
MS
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3/14/2007  1:35 PM
the sad fact remains if this ******* just stayed put after the curry deal and the draft we would be fine....

Marbury/Collins
Crawford
Ariza/Balkman
Thomas/Lee/Rose
Curry/Frye

But in a season and a half he managed to add, four players no one would take, and we would have had the luxury of being under the cap with an actual future but in a year and half he ended it....

extend kudos for isiah's relentless pursuit of mediocrity? (article)

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