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extension in spite of himself (powell)
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djsunyc
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3/13/2007  9:10 AM
Extension in spite of himself
Isiah–s coaching won deal, not his executive skills
Shaun Powell

March 13, 2007

The coach of the Knicks has a contract extension, and deservedly so. Not because he has their foot in the playoff door. Not because he awakened Stephon Marbury, the NBA's best player since the All-Star break. Not because Eddy Curry is now getting double-teamed. And not because the stench of last season - the worst by any team in any sport, all things considered - is no longer making us dizzy.

No, the coach of the Knicks did something far more remarkable to get that new deal.

Isiah Thomas the coach overcame Isiah Thomas the club president.

Coach Thomas has taken club president Thomas' players and done all right. The Knicks are competitive most nights, and when they make free throws, they even win some nights. Mostly, they've solved the toughest riddle in town, one that has perplexed everyone since the owner uttered it months ago: What exactly constitutes "significant and evident progress"?

James Dolan's definition might be milder than yours or mine, but it's the only definition that counts, and it allowed Isiah to easily save his own job. Or jobs. Dolan believes the Knicks are better in Isiah's hands than anyone else's, even though there's enough evidence that those hands have fumbled a few passes since Isiah stopped playing the game.

It helped Isiah that the coaching bar was set about as high off the ground as Curry gets for rebounds. People rave about the Knicks being six games better and counting from last season, but how could they not be? They won 23 games a year ago. Two-three. There was only one direction to go.

Morale was a mess, too, but it could only brighten. Also, we should mention the Eastern Conference in general and the Atlantic Division in particular, uh, smells. Bad. If you can't win at least 30 in the East with reasonable talent, you should get a swifter boot than Larry Brown received last season, without the golden parachute.

That said, Isiah is the best Knicks coach since Jeff Van Gundy (again, not much competition there). Nobody knows more about basketball. His rotation and substitutions make sense. The players enjoy playing for him. They respect him highly. One day, Isiah might even get them to play defense and shoot free throws, two of many things he did brilliantly as a player.

"He's a great communicator," Marbury said. "And he's a player's coach. There are no hidden agendas. Everyone understands what they're supposed to do."

Mostly, Isiah has done what Brown couldn't: Get the best from his two most important players, Marbury and Curry. Thomas challenged Marbury without disrespecting him or taking away what Marbury does best. Thomas didn't demand that Marbury play differently; he demanded that Marbury play better. As a result, Marbury is giving the kind of performance the Knicks thought they'd see three years ago when he arrived.

As for Curry, he has turned into a low-post force offensively, and not many opposing centers can stop him without help. "He finds a way to help you dig deep," Curry said. "He gets the best out of you."

No question, Isiah more than stated his case as coach. But president? Not yet. Maybe not ever.

With all the buyouts given to ex-players and Brown, whom Isiah hired, the amount of wasted millions could feed a roomful of supermodels. Big deal; it's Dolan's money and he won't miss it. But by keeping Isiah the executive, Dolan is taking a big risk here. The Knicks are capped out almost through the next presidential term because Isiah made too many amazingly bad decisions involving Steve Francis, Jerome James, Jalen Rose and Jared Jeffries, among others.

The Curry deal has worked out well for the Knicks, if only because they have a center, the toughest position to fill. But they gave up draft picks, so we don't know the final verdict yet. The single saving grace for Isiah the exec is stealing David Lee late in the first round.

"I wasn't worried about job security," he said. "I was worried about respect for myself and what I stood for and my basketball legacy. I didn't want to have a failure. That was my concern."

Most of that sterling legacy remains tied to Isiah the Hall of Fame point guard, however. As for Isiah the president, let's just say he's lucky to have Isiah the coach.

Copyright 2007 Newsday Inc.
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nixluva
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3/13/2007  10:20 AM
SOOOOOO let me get this straight? Is it the chicken or the egg? Which comes 1st? Is Isiah the coach showing that the players Isiah the GM brought in aren't as bad as LB said they were? LB wanted most of these guys gone. Isiah the GM brought in Curry who leads the league in points in the paint. STeph who has been the best players since the All Star break. Lee who is one of the best young rebounders in the league. Oh and the rest of the team isn't a bunch of scrubs either. So i'm a bit confused by all of this talk about how bad a GM Isiah is. Sure he has done a bad job hiring coaches, but the PLAYERS he's added aren't as bad as so many would have us think.

How about giving him some credit period. In comparison has Ainge done a good job? How about Billy Knight or all those other GM's who've been at this about as long or longer than Isiah? In all honesty, does anyone really think that aside from Detroit, all the other teams in the East are that much better than the Knicks? I think it's all too easy to bash Isiah, but if you think about it, this team is right in the mix and had they had a better start, we'd be a SOLID playoff team somewhere around .500 or more.
kam77
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3/13/2007  10:23 AM
I love how no articles mention that Isiah's first four years were going to be this way regardless because of the contracts of Allan Houston, Shandon Anderson, etc.

Yeah, blame Isiah for adding another 2-3 years of cap-hell but examine what we got in exchange. The best PG we've had since Mark Jackson. The best Center we've had since Patrick. A hall of fame coach who sabotaged a year of progress...

I look at the ledger and I see a few bad Coaching hires, and a few bad Signings. Nothing I would fire the guy over. HE overpays. He'll hopefully stop overpaying. Then i'll be fine with him.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
franco12
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3/13/2007  10:29 AM
Posted by nixluva:

SOOOOOO let me get this straight? Is it the chicken or the egg? Which comes 1st? Is Isiah the coach showing that the players Isiah the GM brought in aren't as bad as LB said they were? LB wanted most of these guys gone. Isiah the GM brought in Curry who leads the league in points in the paint. STeph who has been the best players since the All Star break. Lee who is one of the best young rebounders in the league. Oh and the rest of the team isn't a bunch of scrubs either. So i'm a bit confused by all of this talk about how bad a GM Isiah is. Sure he has done a bad job hiring coaches, but the PLAYERS he's added aren't as bad as so many would have us think.

How about giving him some credit period. In comparison has Ainge done a good job? How about Billy Knight or all those other GM's who've been at this about as long or longer than Isiah? In all honesty, does anyone really think that aside from Detroit, all the other teams in the East are that much better than the Knicks? I think it's all too easy to bash Isiah, but if you think about it, this team is right in the mix and had they had a better start, we'd be a SOLID playoff team somewhere around .500 or more.

Ainge hasn't gone through 2 HOF coaches & spent the kind of money Isiah has. I don't know the celts cap number off the top of my head, but I bet its about at least half of isiah's.

And when talking about upside- great- the knicks this year are good enough to squeak into the playoffs in a damaged atlantic/eastern conf.

What about next year? I don't see the knicks upside beyond 44-46 games with the existing talent they have- and unless Isiah gets a gem of a player with chicago's pick, we have no superstar to lead us to the next level.

Is Al Jefferson better than Curry? Right now, no. But down the line, he might be better. And he didn't cost 2 unprotected picks.
oohah
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3/13/2007  10:32 AM
And when talking about upside- great- the knicks this year are good enough to squeak into the playoffs in a damaged atlantic/eastern conf.

The Knicks are damaged too. And have been all throughout the season. Does that count?
Is Al Jefferson better than Curry? Right now, no. But down the line, he might be better. And he didn't cost 2 unprotected picks.

Neither did Curry.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
BlueSeats
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3/13/2007  10:43 AM
Posted by nixluva:


LB wanted most of these guys gone.

That's not entirely true. It's hard to be exacting as sources contradict each other, but it appears that in addition to the buyouts of Jalen and Taylor, which Isiah already completed, brown also wanted Marbury and/or Francis bought and Jerome.

Given LB's ability to get a lot out of lesser PGs I don't think that would have been bad for us at all.

Getting rid of Brown was clearly one means of removing discord, but dumping Mutinybury could certainly have been another viable approach, one I suspect many other teams might have chosen.

I think Brown would have welcomed working with some of the less Diva members of the club, some of whom are probably here at his suggestion (Curry, Balkman, Skinny)

Losing Snacks woulda hurt though.
MS
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3/13/2007  10:53 AM
KAM what has he done to get fired. Costing the team perhaps close to a couple of hundred million, reduced the win total, dropped us off national tv completely, dropped season tickets 15%, negative pr, sexual harrasment lawsuit. Make two awful trade, Q and Francis, the worst two signing in the past two years Jefferies and James, and have 6 untradable people on the roster, while giving up to picks with no lottery protection. Marbury is still making 20 million by the way, and he is still paying two coaching

Al Jefferson is better than Eddy Curry right now.

AJ 15.2pts 11.5rbs 1.2ass 1.5blks 2.0tos 50% on 12shots
EC 19.3pts 7.1rbs 0.9ass 0.6blks 3.4tos 59% on 12shots

I would take him over eddy rebounding and shotblocking, and reduce to's and he is in great shape and actually has some room to grow....
Bonn1997
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3/13/2007  11:03 AM
Posted by MS:

KAM what has he done to get fired. Costing the team perhaps close to a couple of hundred million, reduced the win total, dropped us off national tv completely, dropped season tickets 15%, negative pr, sexual harrasment lawsuit. Make two awful trade, Q and Francis, the worst two signing in the past two years Jefferies and James, and have 6 untradable people on the roster, while giving up to picks with no lottery protection. Marbury is still making 20 million by the way, and he is still paying two coaching

Al Jefferson is better than Eddy Curry right now.

AJ 15.2pts 11.5rbs 1.2ass 1.5blks 2.0tos 50% on 12shots
EC 19.3pts 7.1rbs 0.9ass 0.6blks 3.4tos 59% on 12shots

I would take him over eddy rebounding and shotblocking, and reduce to's and he is in great shape and actually has some room to grow....
Al is already a lot better than Lazy Eddy
kam77
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3/13/2007  11:09 AM
Reducing win total was bound to happen when getting younger. Dropping off national TV is okay with me, I still watch every game. Not sure why I should care about the nation here. Anucha is a distraction i don't care about. Maybe that makes me a bad dude cuz i don't care about the lawsuit, but i don't.

Q and Nate for Kurt Thomas is not a bad trade, we can discuss that later.
Francis was a bad trade. Many believe Isiah was wrong to make that move and place some blame on LB for pressuring it. I'll give you that as a negative. But not a fireable offense in my eyes.

As far as season tickets... that is cyclical. New Yorkers will pay to see a good product. Some obviously will even pay to see a mediocre one. And thats their decision/fault. No one puts a gun to your head and makes you spend money on the team. And no... it doesn't make you more of a fan to do so, it just makes you more willing to waste moeny, kinda not too different from the guy you complain about...
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
tkf
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3/13/2007  12:05 PM
Posted by MS:

KAM what has he done to get fired. Costing the team perhaps close to a couple of hundred million, reduced the win total, dropped us off national tv completely, dropped season tickets 15%, negative pr, sexual harrasment lawsuit. Make two awful trade, Q and Francis, the worst two signing in the past two years Jefferies and James, and have 6 untradable people on the roster, while giving up to picks with no lottery protection. Marbury is still making 20 million by the way, and he is still paying two coaching

Al Jefferson is better than Eddy Curry right now.

AJ 15.2pts 11.5rbs 1.2ass 1.5blks 2.0tos 50% on 12shots
EC 19.3pts 7.1rbs 0.9ass 0.6blks 3.4tos 59% on 12shots

I would take him over eddy rebounding and shotblocking, and reduce to's and he is in great shape and actually has some room to grow....

what is this, a comedy show audition?

come on....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
TrueBlue
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3/13/2007  12:08 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by MS:

KAM what has he done to get fired. Costing the team perhaps close to a couple of hundred million, reduced the win total, dropped us off national tv completely, dropped season tickets 15%, negative pr, sexual harrasment lawsuit. Make two awful trade, Q and Francis, the worst two signing in the past two years Jefferies and James, and have 6 untradable people on the roster, while giving up to picks with no lottery protection. Marbury is still making 20 million by the way, and he is still paying two coaching

Al Jefferson is better than Eddy Curry right now.

AJ 15.2pts 11.5rbs 1.2ass 1.5blks 2.0tos 50% on 12shots
EC 19.3pts 7.1rbs 0.9ass 0.6blks 3.4tos 59% on 12shots

I would take him over eddy rebounding and shotblocking, and reduce to's and he is in great shape and actually has some room to grow....

what is this, a comedy show audition?

come on....


STATS DON'T LIE
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
tkf
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3/13/2007  12:46 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by MS:

KAM what has he done to get fired. Costing the team perhaps close to a couple of hundred million, reduced the win total, dropped us off national tv completely, dropped season tickets 15%, negative pr, sexual harrasment lawsuit. Make two awful trade, Q and Francis, the worst two signing in the past two years Jefferies and James, and have 6 untradable people on the roster, while giving up to picks with no lottery protection. Marbury is still making 20 million by the way, and he is still paying two coaching

Al Jefferson is better than Eddy Curry right now.

AJ 15.2pts 11.5rbs 1.2ass 1.5blks 2.0tos 50% on 12shots
EC 19.3pts 7.1rbs 0.9ass 0.6blks 3.4tos 59% on 12shots

I would take him over eddy rebounding and shotblocking, and reduce to's and he is in great shape and actually has some room to grow....

what is this, a comedy show audition?

come on....


STATS DON'T LIE


NEITHER DO THEY TELL THE COMPLETE STORY...


Steve nash 18/11/3

Arenas 28/5/6


Arenas is younger than nash by 8 years almost, and still has room to grow, therefore Arenas is much better..

Numbers don't lie... right?

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
BlueSeats
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3/13/2007  1:16 PM
Arenas is a better SG, but not a better PG, as reflected in the stats.

If one's team needed the better scorer one probably would take Arenas.

Similarly, if ones team needed a better rebounder and protector in the paint, with lower TOs they probably would want Jefferson. Why not? And on top of everything else he's fitter and without a heart condition.
TrueBlue
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3/13/2007  1:41 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

Arenas is a better SG, but not a better PG, as reflected in the stats.

If one's team needed the better scorer one probably would take Arenas.

Similarly, if ones team needed a better rebounder and protector in the paint, with lower TOs they probably would want Jefferson. Why not? And on top of everything else he's fitter and without a heart condition.

I didn't want to go there and start up again but you would think common sense comes into play. I'm looking at the statement that it's a comedy show audition to think Al Jefferson is as good if not better than Curry. I bet Curry fans haven't seen too many of his counterparts perform on a nightly basis. I'd wager that many who post here don't have digital cable or satellite programming NBA package to catch most games from nigh-to-night. Just Box score Quaterbacks.



[Edited by - TrueBlue on 03-13-2007 12:47 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Bonn1997
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3/13/2007  2:37 PM
Posted by kam77:

Reducing win total was bound to happen when getting younger.
The problem with that argument is that this isn't a young team
kam77
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3/13/2007  4:04 PM
So taking a team with a starting lineup of veterans: Thomas, Thomas, Mohammed, and replace them with all guys under 24 years old is both

A) not going to reduce victories? and
B) not making us younger where it counts?
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
eViL
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3/13/2007  4:40 PM
Posted by kam77:

Reducing win total was bound to happen when getting younger. Dropping off national TV is okay with me, I still watch every game. Not sure why I should care about the nation here. Anucha is a distraction i don't care about. Maybe that makes me a bad dude cuz i don't care about the lawsuit, but i don't.

Q and Nate for Kurt Thomas is not a bad trade, we can discuss that later.
Francis was a bad trade. Many believe Isiah was wrong to make that move and place some blame on LB for pressuring it. I'll give you that as a negative. But not a fireable offense in my eyes.

As far as season tickets... that is cyclical. New Yorkers will pay to see a good product. Some obviously will even pay to see a mediocre one. And thats their decision/fault. No one puts a gun to your head and makes you spend money on the team. And no... it doesn't make you more of a fan to do so, it just makes you more willing to waste moeny, kinda not too different from the guy you complain about...

So tell us how much you love the Jerome James signing and the Jared Jeffries signing. And while you are at it tell us why Lenny Wilkens should have been fired.
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
TMS
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3/13/2007  5:09 PM
Lenny was a lame duck... he had to go cuz Marbury wasn't going anywhere, that much was clear.

Jerome James & Jared Jefferies will go down as the worst MLE signings in the history of the NY Knicks... even Clarence Weatherspoon served a purpose for a little while.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
eViL
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3/13/2007  5:27 PM
Posted by TMS:

Lenny was a lame duck... he had to go cuz Marbury wasn't going anywhere, that much was clear.

The point about Lenny is that if he can go 40-41 over 81 games and get fired -- how can Isiah go 114-173 and still have a job?
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
oohah
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3/13/2007  5:37 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by TMS:

Lenny was a lame duck... he had to go cuz Marbury wasn't going anywhere, that much was clear.

The point about Lenny is that if he can go 40-41 over 81 games and get fired -- how can Isiah go 114-173 and still have a job?

Because LB was Dolan's hire, Dolan said as much.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
extension in spite of himself (powell)

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