fish - You want to use the LB way on this kid?

I agree that he has to start playing on both sides of the court and I think that will start to show late this season.

VDesai: I think making the playoffs and getting a taste of the playoff intensity will be huge in the development of Curry, Lee, Frye etc. Its important we make the playoffs for the young guys to appreciate it.

Fish- I've seen you take numerous jabs at Curry all over other threads. And whenver you force yourself to compliment him, its usually back-handed. Why make up an new thread with a decieving title, only to reiterate the same stuff you been bashing Curry for since the beginning of the season?

When he didn't play much last yr, you guys called him a fat-bum, who didn't have the stamina to compete for long stretches nor the stamina to stay out of foul trouble. Now he's proven to be in better shape, can play 40 per if necesary, doesn't comit those bonehead fouls, is averaging 20 a game, is forcing teams to game plan for him (which, by the way isusually done only to franchise guys not saying Curry is one) and still, people don't want to appreciate what he brings to this team. Obviously, Curry worked hard this summer because he came back with an array of new post moves, more confidence in the box, and is getting better at passing out of double-teams which is new to him.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 02-21-2007 11:12 AM]

+/- Stats SUCK!!!!!!!! LOL

The knicks always start games and every player who has started over 20 games this seasn has a negative +/- on the year. I didn't know +/- turnovers,rebounds, block shots, help defense and misses FTs.
BUt I do realize the last 10 games +/- is pretty much from GState toasting the knicks took when the starts were - 30 plus and the bench was + 30 plus which eqauls the 60 between 677 and 727.........

Posted by bigbeast:

Fish- I've seen you take numerous jabs at Curry all over other threads. And whenver you force yourself to compliment him, its usually back-handed. Why make up an new thread with a decieving title, only to reiterate the same stuff you been bashing Curry for since the beginning of the season?

When he didn't play much last yr, you guys called him a fat-bum, who didn't have the stamina to compete for long stretches nor the stamina to stay out of foul trouble. Now he's proven to be in better shape, can play 40 per if necesary, doesn't comit those bonehead fouls, is averaging 20 a game, is forcing teams to game plan for him (which, by the way isusually done only to franchise guys not saying Curry is one) and still, people don't want to appreciate what he brings to this team. Obviously, Curry worked hard this summer because he came back with an array of new post moves, more confidence in the box, and is getting better at passing out of double-teams which is new to him.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 02-21-2007 11:12 AM]

why dont you just talk about the topic?

Eddy has been designated the future and focal point of this franchise. So do you think the way he's handled is positive or not?

Eddy WAS fat last year and totally out of shape. Is point that out bashing? Attacking?

What did you want to see Eddy improve on coming into this season? More scoring, or more rebounding and defense? He's become a better scorer, but has clearly regressed in other areas.

He's not picking up fouls because he doesnt touch anyone.

Big... just answer me this. How far will this franchise go with a center that simply doesnt try to rebound or defend? And if Eddy is going to be annoited 'the guy' whats the best way to develop him?

There's no point in argueing what kind of player Eddy is. If he lifted a hand D or boxed out for 10 minutes a night he would be an all star. So how do you think we get this guy to improve? You think Isiah's doing the right thing coddling him along and telling him how great he is while he plays 40 minutes a night and grabs 6 rebounds?

VDesai
He has to play for the long term. Developing Curry is more important than making the playoffs for this season.

thats the thing isnt it?

NYKBocker
fish - You want to use the LB way on this kid?

Lets not bring him into the discussion. I do think what Isiah is doing isnt working. Since all this all star snub stuff has been played out Eddy's rebounding has actually gotten worse. I think its in the 6's over the last 5 games. We are a losing team. Everytime we win a game or two guys start spouting about how we have arrived, then we go on a 1-3 road trip or get embarrased and it get s quiet again.

Since we arent making trades (assuming) and we have a lot of guys locked into untradable deals the only way this thing is getting is from within. we suck on D and we dont take care of the ball and we have missed rebounds in critical times. Now, if we are fixing that wheres the first place to look?

Has anyone noticed despite a total lack in production people have been off Marbury's case? 2 years ago he had one of his best years statistically, yet we killed him for not playing any D and for being a general malcontent. Now he's playing hard and people are either giving him props or just laying off his case.

All I want from Eddy is effort. Is there a single person here that can honestly say he gives that on both ends of the court? Anyone?

Posted by fishmike:


This guy is here to stay and the key to the franchise. How far is this franchise going, when built around a center who doesnt jump for rebounds or lift his arms on D?

I think Eddy is a good kid, a likeable kid, but this is a problem thats not going away and is only getting worse.

I hear this so much about this kid not jumping for rebounds, he's lazy, fat, not moving his arms and not moving on defense. I think the majority of folks look at this entirely from the wrong perspective. Imo it's not a matter of him not jumping or not wanting to jump for rebounds. More, it's a matter of him being unable to perform these task at a frequency that most of our fat asses sitting in the stands (or better yet on the couch) would prefer. Imo, at this point in Eddy's career it's because the dude is way overweight. When I say overweight understand that i'm saying that he has to change his body fat to muscle ratio (look at Dwight Howard). This guy needs to be at 6% body fat. (One of my favorites, Sweetney was never able to make this transition).

Yeah, some will say well if he can move on offense why can't he do it on defense. Nope, offensive post play for the most part is all about technique as opposed to physical prowess. In fact how many unatheletic players turn out to be great defensive players as opposed to great offensive players (see Ariza ). Balkman is often out of position but he can jump out of the gym and he can change direction on a dime.

Although Howard is in much better physical condition than Eddy and proved on the jump ball that there's not even a comparison when it comes to leaping ability between the two. Eddy pretty much had his way with Howard on the offensive end (to the point where Howard basically sent him to the line because he was getting toasted one on one).

Eddy has shown that he knows how to use the extra poundage as an advantage against anyone in the league. However that same poundage works at a disadvantage on the defensive end. At the beginning of the season he could go straight ahead when running down court but ask him to change direction on a dime (just don't be in the way) and he'd inevitably pile drive who or whatever was in front of him. With his better condition and lighter weight he's much better at changing direction but lightyears from being even good at it.

The fact of the matter is Eddy has proven that he's not lazy just based on his production this year. The biggest question mark from plenty of people on this site was that he'd never get in any kind cardiovascular shape. Well that's been proven wrong (just look at the title of this thread). This body transformation is what I expect to happen gradually over the next two summers as this kid seems to be very comfortable and properly motivated in the environment he's in now.

P.S. I'm glad he didn't make the Allstar team. Eddy does the work to perform on both ends of the court (he's getting there) then i'm all for him being voted to the Allstar team.

Posted by fishmike:

forget all that... lets talk about Eddy. TMS, what do you do to fix this problem? Nothing? Think Isiah is going about it the right way? Do we just call him a role player/scorer and look to improve the rest of the team?

i've always agreed that Eddy needs to get his butt in the gym & work on his conditioning... that hasn't changed... where we disagree is that you think anything that Curry does positive on the offensive end is vastly outweighed by his weaknesses on the defensive end... i think it's either a pretty even trade off, or a little in Curry's favor because of the impact he's having in the low post this season... bottomline, i don't think he's half as bad a player as you think he is overall... i think we could get some very good value for him if Isiah decided to trade him, or he could very realistically continue to develop into an Allstar C next season.

i think if Curry gets into the gym this offseason & drops about 15-20 lbs., he'd be a much better rebounder & shotblocker than he is now... not to say he'd be a very good one, but he'd be able to get up on shotblock attempts & rebounds easier w/o all that excess weight... he's starting to show me some signs that he does care about his game & that's encouraging... a lot more so than last season, when he didn't look like he cared at all.

there was one play that stuck out in my head from last night:

jameer drives to the hoop, and eddy, instead of stepping up to challenge, stepped AWAY from him and looked to box out. he could've easily just stepped up and made the shot hard for jameer. instead, he shied away and nelson went in for an easy layup.

there was another drive, i think it was jameer or hedo, where eddy actually jumped BACK on the layup attempt.

the guy has no clue. i mean absolutely no clue. you can go to the local ymca and you'll see guys that know how to play defense or at least attempt to. he makes no attempt and he has nba coaches around him 24/7.

his post offense tho, is downright dominating. but his total absence on the other end of the court makes it very difficult for us to build a team since we need a MAJOR piece at the PF spot. not an OK one, but a MAJOR one.

I agree with you DJ. If you're building around Curry, you have to realize that assumption is the mother of all screw ups, and realize that RIGHT NOW, Curry's defense is bad. You would HAVE to get a power foward who can dominate on the defensive end, kind of like a Marcus Camby type of player. Someone who will just hang around the perimeter and cut to the basket on offense, but shut down interior offenses on the defense. Anything less than that, then you have a very weak frontcourt defense. David Lee isn't going to balance anything out, as much as we love him. Channing Frye wont. Jerome James certainly wont, and neither will Malik.

This is why I personally think Curry should be a trade chip. He's dominant at scoring in the post and that's about it. By trading him, you can start off fresh, balance things out a little bit more by getting maybe a less talented scorer, but better balance in the frontcourt. From there, you can look onto building a team, something we haven't had in 7 years.