The knicks have all the talent you can ask for and ON PAPER they should be one of the more elite teams in the league.

Problem is they lack any real ball players.

Take a look at some champions across the league from past and present: Mario elie, Vernon Maxwell, Sam cassell, Hakeem, Robert horry, Brent Barry, Derek fisher, Dennis rodman, isiah, dumars, vinnie Johnson, manu ginobili, rip, chancey, prince, etc....

Just think of those type of players and understand what I'm saying. These guys flat out know how to play this game. Its not just experience or skill level. Some of the guys I mentioned were just role players. Still not just some random people. These guys were ball players. They understood how to play the game of basketball. The played with heart, spirit, determination, love, respect, and staight up knowledge of the game.

Another example is like neo in the matrix. It took that mofo 3 movies to understand what was going on. Still to understand the game fully, you see it in slow motion. Its elementary and things look wide open. You see the game not just making and missing shots or just not having it on a particular day. Its not about getting hot, or earning a spot. Its about understand the ****ing game.

The current knicks have all the damn talent you could want but only a select few are real ball players that can play the game. I believe those guys are Lee, balkman, cato, and Collins. Collins hasn't played much and hasn't been spectacular but the guy has shown he knows what he should be doing at certain times.

The rest of the knicks don't know what they are doing, just look at the knicks record. Craw is our best player talent wise but the mofo still has no clue what a good shot is. He just thinks if he makes it it was good. He is a completely different player playing point or shooting guard. I can't understand it cuz its still the same game. Its not like he is playing hockey one day and baseball the next. Its the same game. Francis is mega talented but anyone can see he has no ****in clue either. Frye thinks he's earned a starting spot even after clearly getting out played all year by frye. If frye isn't shooting wide open the dude has no clue what he should be doing. That's not isiahs fault. Frye has to be the one to understand the game and just ****in play. Lee does it night in and out. What is so different for frye?

Curry and marbs still are retarded but they are not totally lost as they once were. Curry now knows he can out it in the basket against anyone. Marbs knows he is not alone anymore. Its great that their eyes are opening. Q sees the game well but is hurt. Its kinda not fair.

The knicks need to pick up some real ball players. Not just talent, or big name "franchise" players. They need some more guys that know the game and play with everything I mentioned earlier.

Childress I believe is one of those guys. Watson is another. Delonte west, pierce, mike miller, Shane battier, Luther head,.....I'm just naming some guys that have never won but I just feel they know the game and have not only the skill but passion, knowledge and understanding it takes to win.

Can the knicks get some? Can the knicks get some? Can the knicks get some?

This is why Isiah has done a bad job. People that support him like to throw out the Dolan mandate and say his hands were tied because he had to make the playoffs. If that was his mandate he should have went out and got guys that knew how to make the playoffs. Instead he added a bunch of guys with paper talent that have no idea how to win in the NBA and never have.

He should have just gone out and overpaid for Sam Cassell, Eddie Jones, Kenny Thomas, Tony Battie and Cliff Robinson. Those guys would have played hard, played D and finished games everynight. It wouldnt have been exciting but you would have a team that probably wins 42-45 games and makes the postseason. Then you build up the bench and bottom of the roster w/ young guys. We have one lottery pick on our team and thats Frye. The Balkman, Lee, Nates of our roster would still have been available.

This team just isnt good. What were guys thinking watching the Knicks play the Clippers? Marbury couldnt make a post entry pass without getting picked off by Livingston. Eddy's 8 TOs against the Jazz and guys grumble about the refs. It goes on and on. We just arent a good BB team

What sparked this rant of mine was this chat I had with some old timers and a couple of guys around my age on the job. You can't fool a old timer. I'm talking a old school true blue ball fanatic. These guys playing today are a different breed of man. Its deeper than basketball.

NOBODY puts it on the line anymore. Nobody wants it bad enough anymore. No one cares about the glory and are content to go out rich with no respect then have the opportunity to go down in history as a warrior.

Faggota like Malone, Payton,and mourning don't count cuz they just want a championship no matter who they play with just to get one. They wanna say they were great cuz they won one.

Anyway not to sidetrack. We talked about Collins and that take down. People say isiah ordered it. That's bull**** cuz it was such a spontanious act. Why was Collins the one to do it? Cuz the dude knows what it is to be a ball player. It was the right play to make. Collins didn't cream him. He intentionally stopped JR from getting off the ground. He held him down. Collins didn't Karl Malone him the way Karl used to do to players all the time. He didn't Bruce Bowen him. He wacked him yeah. A lot of people forgot how much our knicks used to do that back in the day. No showyime in the garden. Respect this building or get out down. Win or lose. Thing about it is it was too little too late. Up until that point no one on the team thought or had the balls to do what Collins did.

Sucker duck players.

I compare the state of basketbal like the state of hip-hop or just music in general. The old school and old souls know what's real music and what's fake. Some people are still slaves to the hype and hypnotized by the bull**** the media, stats, and flash and propaganda spread around thicker that **** around a barn yard.

Im free of the bull****. I know a lot of you guys are. I met most of you. What it comes down to is what's real and the state of the game of basketball is not real. Only a select teams are. Even the elite teams today would get gang raped by any team of the past.

Ranting likes mofo. I just wanna make it clear where I stand with ****. Fuck isiah and whoever else. Aside from a few things in life I love basketball and I know the freakin game.

Stop ****in with me isiah, Danny ainge, paxson, mchale, and David stern.

All I wanna know is can we get some real ball players? Can we get some? Can we get some?

Don't sleep cuz the rest of the world is better at what the US thought they had on lock.

Exactly how was Isiah supposed to get players that knew how to make the playoffs, with the crap we had to offer teams? AS if it's that easy to just put together a playoff team. It was believed that it would take isiah 3-5 years to fix the mess this team was in. Even when rebuilding people talk in terms of 3-5 year plans.

Some knick fans simply don't understand the nature of working for Dolan. They seem to think that it was a joke that Dolan didn't want to rebuild and said so. He's the reason why isiah did many of the things he did in his 1st year and a half. However as Bonn pointed out. isiah still managed to "rebuild" the roster with young talent. It amazes me how few knick fans recognize that this team has just as much young talent as any other promising young team.

We used to have HUGE gaps to fill. Now the talk is often for one of two role players to fill certain needs. This team is a good young team and it's gonna get better, but no one around here wants to wait for that to happen. Why is it so hard for fans of this team to allow this young team to jell and mature? Perhaps cuz we've almost NEVER had a young team like this. We don't know how to deal with a team that is going thru growing pains. Instant gratification is all we can understand.

6-11 in Nov.
7-9 in Dec.
7-8 in Jan.
2-1 in Feb.

November is the month that really makes this team's record look as bad as it is. A bad month when this team was trying to get it together is mostly what makes the recod look so bad. Clearly this team is making progress, but unless this team is suddenly winning every game, fans lack the patience to allow this team to go thru the natural growth process. This team has to learn how to win and they're getting closer to doing that.

we have our young team in place, we just need to find the right time to expose them full time.

I agree 200% on collins. He's the real deal and comes from good stock.

It's actually good he doesn't have a shot, then he'll pass first.

actually, Qrich, nate, balkman, lee and jeffries as well have what it takes. mix in "all stars" Lite in curry and crawford (you need the glory hounds) and we have only one missing piece.

The day Frye turns into a shot blocking big time jamming machine, is the day we have our team.

Posted by nixluva:

Exactly how was Isiah supposed to get players that knew how to make the playoffs, with the crap we had to offer teams? AS if it's that easy to just put together a playoff team. It was believed that it would take isiah 3-5 years to fix the mess this team was in. Even when rebuilding people talk in terms of 3-5 year plans.

Some knick fans simply don't understand the nature of working for Dolan. They seem to think that it was a joke that Dolan didn't want to rebuild and said so. He's the reason why isiah did many of the things he did in his 1st year and a half. However as Bonn pointed out. isiah still managed to "rebuild" the roster with young talent. It amazes me how few knick fans recognize that this team has just as much young talent as any other promising young team.

We used to have HUGE gaps to fill. Now the talk is often for one of two role players to fill certain needs. This team is a good young team and it's gonna get better, but no one around here wants to wait for that to happen. Why is it so hard for fans of this team to allow this young team to jell and mature? Perhaps cuz we've almost NEVER had a young team like this. We don't know how to deal with a team that is going thru growing pains. Instant gratification is all we can understand.

6-11 in Nov.
7-9 in Dec.
7-8 in Jan.
2-1 in Feb.

November is the month that really makes this team's record look as bad as it is. A bad month when this team was trying to get it together is mostly what makes the recod look so bad. Clearly this team is making progress, but unless this team is suddenly winning every game, fans lack the patience to allow this team to go thru the natural growth process. This team has to learn how to win and they're getting closer to doing that.

if there's this omnipresent playoff mandate from Dolan, then why does IT still have a job?

Posted by fishmike:

This is why Isiah has done a bad job. People that support him like to throw out the Dolan mandate and say his hands were tied because he had to make the playoffs. If that was his mandate he should have went out and got guys that knew how to make the playoffs. Instead he added a bunch of guys with paper talent that have no idea how to win in the NBA and never have.

He should have just gone out and overpaid for Sam Cassell, Eddie Jones, Kenny Thomas, Tony Battie and Cliff Robinson. Those guys would have played hard, played D and finished games everynight. It wouldnt have been exciting but you would have a team that probably wins 42-45 games and makes the postseason. Then you build up the bench and bottom of the roster w/ young guys. We have one lottery pick on our team and thats Frye. The Balkman, Lee, Nates of our roster would still have been available.

This team just isnt good. What were guys thinking watching the Knicks play the Clippers? Marbury couldnt make a post entry pass without getting picked off by Livingston. Eddy's 8 TOs against the Jazz and guys grumble about the refs. It goes on and on. We just arent a good BB team

Fish- you pine for Ward, Childs, Oakley- players with not that much talent, but tons of guts.

I think the game has changed- you need talent, but, yes, that talent needs to know how to win.

Talented guys can 'learn' how to win, but you can't learn talent.

Posted by nixluva:

Exactly how was Isiah supposed to get players that knew how to make the playoffs, with the crap we had to offer teams? AS if it's that easy to just put together a playoff team. It was believed that it would take isiah 3-5 years to fix the mess this team was in. Even when rebuilding people talk in terms of 3-5 year plans.

Some knick fans simply don't understand the nature of working for Dolan. They seem to think that it was a joke that Dolan didn't want to rebuild and said so. He's the reason why isiah did many of the things he did in his 1st year and a half. However as Bonn pointed out. isiah still managed to "rebuild" the roster with young talent. It amazes me how few knick fans recognize that this team has just as much young talent as any other promising young team.

We used to have HUGE gaps to fill. Now the talk is often for one of two role players to fill certain needs. This team is a good young team and it's gonna get better, but no one around here wants to wait for that to happen. Why is it so hard for fans of this team to allow this young team to jell and mature? Perhaps cuz we've almost NEVER had a young team like this. We don't know how to deal with a team that is going thru growing pains. Instant gratification is all we can understand.

6-11 in Nov.
7-9 in Dec.
7-8 in Jan.
2-1 in Feb.

November is the month that really makes this team's record look as bad as it is. A bad month when this team was trying to get it together is mostly what makes the recod look so bad. Clearly this team is making progress, but unless this team is suddenly winning every game, fans lack the patience to allow this team to go thru the natural growth process. This team has to learn how to win and they're getting closer to doing that.

i understand why fans are optimistic. it's the youngest knicks team in a while. and we're playing .500 ball since november. the team is more exciting to watch. there's alot of reasons for fans to get excited and optimistic.

but guys like myself, who are very skeptical of our future prospects are worried that there is a ceiling. the easy retort is "how do you know?" well, there's no way of knowing anything, but seeing how we've been operating, to get the talent level necessary to really push for the end goal of a title doesn't seem too promising. and it's that fear of frustration down the road that prevents a guy like me from sitting back and lauding the current situation while ignoring the prospects of this team down the road.

i'm a big believer in long term planning and keeping options open. and i fear that we don't really have either going on right now, at least not at the level required to contend. so i can sit back and enjoy the moment, but i personally, would feel more gratified if i saw a big picture plan in place where the fruits would taste much sweeter a few years from now.

Posted by martin:

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by nixluva:

Exactly how was Isiah supposed to get players that knew how to make the playoffs, with the crap we had to offer teams? AS if it's that easy to just put together a playoff team. It was believed that it would take isiah 3-5 years to fix the mess this team was in. Even when rebuilding people talk in terms of 3-5 year plans.

Some knick fans simply don't understand the nature of working for Dolan. They seem to think that it was a joke that Dolan didn't want to rebuild and said so. He's the reason why isiah did many of the things he did in his 1st year and a half. However as Bonn pointed out. isiah still managed to "rebuild" the roster with young talent. It amazes me how few knick fans recognize that this team has just as much young talent as any other promising young team.

We used to have HUGE gaps to fill. Now the talk is often for one of two role players to fill certain needs. This team is a good young team and it's gonna get better, but no one around here wants to wait for that to happen. Why is it so hard for fans of this team to allow this young team to jell and mature? Perhaps cuz we've almost NEVER had a young team like this. We don't know how to deal with a team that is going thru growing pains. Instant gratification is all we can understand.

6-11 in Nov.
7-9 in Dec.
7-8 in Jan.
2-1 in Feb.

November is the month that really makes this team's record look as bad as it is. A bad month when this team was trying to get it together is mostly what makes the recod look so bad. Clearly this team is making progress, but unless this team is suddenly winning every game, fans lack the patience to allow this team to go thru the natural growth process. This team has to learn how to win and they're getting closer to doing that.

i understand why fans are optimistic. it's the youngest knicks team in a while. and we're playing .500 ball since november. the team is more exciting to watch. there's alot of reasons for fans to get excited and optimistic.

but guys like myself, who are very skeptical of our future prospects are worried that there is a ceiling. the easy retort is "how do you know?" well, there's no way of knowing anything, but seeing how we've been operating, to get the talent level necessary to really push for the end goal of a title doesn't seem too promising. and it's that fear of frustration down the road that prevents a guy like me from sitting back and lauding the current situation while ignoring the prospects of this team down the road.

i'm a big believer in long term planning and keeping options open. and i fear that we don't really have either going on right now, at least not at the level required to contend. so i can sit back and enjoy the moment, but i personally, would feel more gratified if i saw a big picture plan in place where the fruits would taste much sweeter a few years from now.

100% agree on that philosophy, and not just regarding the Knicks.

I second that thought. Great post DJ.

Unfortunatly like this year, Isiah dropped the ball in the draft the past two season with the exception of david lee. He has not pulled off one good transaction since he has been here. The suns gave away their draft pick in last years draft, much like a lot of teams do because they don't want the extra salary. Malik Rose deal didn't really get us DLee it gave us a late pick that could have been bought for 3 million instead of four years of malik rose........

2005 Draft
Pick 7 Granger or Bynum, why take the French Frye
Pick 21 Luther Head
Pick 30 Lee, great selection

2006 Draft
Pick 20 Marcus Williams or Kyle Lowry
Pick 29 Alexander Johnson or Balkman

Fine you do the curry deal if you want, but Isiah would be one of the best gms in the nba right now if he didn't add James and Jefferies and didn't make the francis trade, i don't care if we signed ariza or not

Marbury, Marcus
Q-Rich, Crawford
Granger, Head
Lee, Alexander Johnson
Curry, Rose

could have been so close to really rebuilding the team without taking terrible chances on players.....

Cap room young core: Granger, Lee, Head, Marcus Williams, Johnson, Eddy Curry, cap room in lebron and D-Wades walk year and tradable assets.....

Marcus,Crawford
Dwane Wade
Granger,Q
Lee/Johnson
Curry/rent a player

NBA Champions

we need to operate like this

Recent Success Won't Deter Colangelo As Trade Deadline Looms
13th February, 2007 - 6:13 am
Globe And Mail -
The Toronto Raptors have won 14 of their past 20 starts and are within striking distance of being the host in a playoff round as the team plays its final two games before the National Basketball Association's all-star break.

But with the trade deadline just 10 days away, Raptors president and general manager Bryan Colangelo says the team's recent success won't alter his mindset as he decides whether to make a move with his roster.

"Without jeopardizing our position here for the future, you always want to improve," he said.

"If there is an opportunity, you weigh all the circumstances: team chemistry, the salary picture going forward. We want to maintain that flexibility and not make a move that will be too expensive in terms of length of contract."