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for better or worse, the knicks embrace their starting lineup
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djsunyc
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2/11/2007  9:51 PM
For Better or Worse, the Knicks Embrace Their Starting Lineup
By HOWARD BECK

LOS ANGELES, Feb. 11 — Long before the fourth-quarter meltdown and the overtime gasp in Utah late Saturday night, the Knicks caught a brief glimpse of what might have been — indeed, of who they might have been.

Early in the second quarter, after a timeout and a breather, Eddy Curry returned to the lineup. Flanking him in the frontcourt were Channing Frye and Jared Jeffries. In the backcourt were Stephon Marbury and Steve Francis.

The five played the next 1 minute 7 seconds together before another substitution broke it up. It happened so fast that they probably did not appreciate the moment: It was the first time that those five players — a group Coach Isiah Thomas had envisioned as his starting lineup — played together this season.

Thomas signed Jeffries last summer to be the Knicks’ starting small forward. Thomas was committed to a starting backcourt of Francis and Marbury. And he wanted Frye’s perimeter shooting next to Curry’s inside game.

But that group has not started a single game, a reminder of just how disjointed the Knicks (22-29) have often been this season.

Jeffries broke his left wrist in training camp and missed the season’s first 22 games. He returned Dec. 9, the same night Francis checked out with tendinitis in his right knee. Until Saturday, those two presumed starters had played in the same game only twice, Dec. 27 and 29, when Francis played sparingly before shutting himself down again.

When Francis finally returned to the rotation Saturday, although not to the starting lineup, the Knicks had a full, healthy complement of players for the first time. Someone suggested that this meant the Knicks no longer had any excuses for failure.

“No,” Thomas said, “it means that the way I thought about playing in training camp, it’s too late in the season right now to try to do that. Just style, rotation and everything else. You came in with an idea of what you wanted to do. I guess that’s how basketball is.”

And this is who the Knicks are, until the next injury, suspension, trade or contract buyout. Francis and Jeffries, who have missed a combined 56 games, are not starters, but role-playing reserves. Frye has also been relegated to the bench for now, although by Thomas’s choice.

With all of his options available, Thomas could conceivably tinker with the lineup and rotation. But with the season well past its midway point, he is reluctant to mess with a modestly good thing.

Jamal Crawford, for all of his inconsistency and occasional wildness, has been effective as Marbury’s backcourt partner for most of the past two months. Quentin Richardson, despite his own injury troubles, has been the Knicks’ best small forward.

The Knicks are still prone to inexplicable letdowns — such as losing a 10-point lead in the fourth quarter of Saturday night’s loss. But they are 9-8 since Jan. 2, and Thomas has reason to believe that consistency in the lineup and rotation will eventually produce a winning streak that puts the Knicks in playoff contention.

The injuries and suspensions forced Thomas to make decisions he might not have otherwise made, some of which have helped.

Francis is a prime example. The Francis-Marbury pairing never worked well because they are too similar in their styles. The Knicks were 6-11 when they were the starting guards. The Knicks are 14-14 with Marbury and Crawford as the starting backcourt. For all of his talent, Francis appears to be best used as a third guard on this team, a role he might not have accepted coming out of camp.

There is no telling how different Jeffries’s season would be had he not broken his wrist in October. Jeffries has struggled mightily to find his place and show the diverse talents that prompted Thomas to give him a $30 million contract last summer.

But Jeffries’s long absence also helped the Knicks, specifically Richardson. In October, Richardson seemed destined to be a backup at forward and at guard. He easily could have been lost in a deep rotation. Instead, Richardson opened the season as the starting small forward and had an instant renaissance — he was the Knicks’ best player in November.

Recent games have shown just how far the Knicks are from the team Thomas once envisioned. Jeffries played only seven minutes Saturday night. Frye, the eighth overall pick in the June 2005 draft, played only 15 minutes. Nate Robinson, once considered a key member of the Knicks’ youth movement, has not played in the past two games despite being healthy.

David Lee, who was drafted 22 spots behind Frye and 9 behind Robinson, is the most productive member of the 2005 draft class. Lee remains a reserve but plays 30 minutes a night, cutting into the playing time of Frye and Jeffries.

Thomas may not have the lineup, the rotation or the style he envisioned in training camp. But fate has formed a team that may yet save his job over the next two months.

REBOUNDS

Isiah Thomas gave his players the day off Sunday. The Knicks will practice Monday at U.C.L.A. in preparation for Tuesday’s game against the Los Angeles Lakers. The Knicks defeated the Lakers (without the suspended Kobe Bryant) on Jan. 30 in New York. The Lakers finished an eight-game trip Sunday.
AUTOADVERT
djsunyc
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2/11/2007  9:52 PM
“No,” Thomas said, “it means that the way I thought about playing in training camp, it’s too late in the season right now to try to do that. Just style, rotation and everything else. You came in with an idea of what you wanted to do. I guess that’s how basketball is.

that should be corrected to say "i guess that's how ny knick basketball is."

FOUR MORE YEARS!!!

FOUR MORE YEARS!!!
islesfan
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2/11/2007  10:06 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
“No,” Thomas said, “it means that the way I thought about playing in training camp, it’s too late in the season right now to try to do that. Just style, rotation and everything else. You came in with an idea of what you wanted to do. I guess that’s how basketball is.

that should be corrected to say "i guess that's how ny knick basketball is."

FOUR MORE YEARS!!!

FOUR MORE YEARS!!!

No, it should be corrected to say "It's too late to do what I had wanted to do coming into this season but it's not too late to make Jerome James a starter."
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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2/11/2007  10:09 PM
I swear, if Isiah signs an extension, I'm going to start a thread called "Isiah signs an extension :-(" and I'm going to countdown every day on it.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Silverfuel
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2/11/2007  10:09 PM
I don't understand how that lineup will help the Knicks. Jeez Isiah! Come on!
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
djsunyc
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2/11/2007  10:10 PM
Posted by islesfan:

I swear, if Isiah signs an extension, I'm going to start a thread called "Isiah signs an extension :-(" and I'm going to countdown every day on it.

we can call it "extention: the quest for .500"
nyk4ever
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2/11/2007  10:11 PM
Posted by islesfan:

I swear, if Isiah signs an extension, I'm going to start a thread called "Isiah signs an extension :-(" and I'm going to countdown every day on it.

LOL.

Isles, I was curious. If/when Isiah gets fired, do you already have a post made up for that beautiful day, or is it going to be shooting straight from the heart that day?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
djsunyc
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2/11/2007  10:12 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:

I don't understand how that lineup will help the Knicks. Jeez Isiah! Come on!

the guy completely abandoned his plan for HIS roster - the guys he all brought here in the first place. the coach...abandoning the GM's plan. fantastic. only in ny...only for the knicks...only under dolan.

unbelievable. can somebody talk to dolan? i mean, can mills say something to the man? i tried but my juice card extends only to isiah's q&a's.
nyk4ever
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2/11/2007  10:13 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Silverfuel:

I don't understand how that lineup will help the Knicks. Jeez Isiah! Come on!

the guy completely abandoned his plan for HIS roster - the guys he all brought here in the first place. the coach...abandoning the GM's plan. fantastic. only in ny...only for the knicks...only under dolan.

unbelievable. can somebody talk to dolan? i mean, can mills say something to the man? i tried but my juice card extends only to isiah's q&a's.

I believe David Stern tried to talk Dolan but Dolan refused any advice.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
djsunyc
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2/11/2007  10:14 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by islesfan:

I swear, if Isiah signs an extension, I'm going to start a thread called "Isiah signs an extension :-(" and I'm going to countdown every day on it.

LOL.

Isles, I was curious. If/when Isiah gets fired, do you already have a post made up for that beautiful day, or is it going to be shooting straight from the heart that day?

isiah thomas gets fired as the president of the knicks...in unrelated news, a man streaks down 7th avenue...film at 11.
islesfan
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2/11/2007  10:24 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by islesfan:

I swear, if Isiah signs an extension, I'm going to start a thread called "Isiah signs an extension :-(" and I'm going to countdown every day on it.

LOL.

Isles, I was curious. If/when Isiah gets fired, do you already have a post made up for that beautiful day, or is it going to be shooting straight from the heart that day?

I've actually thought about having something prewritten and started doing something last spring when it looked like the obvious choice was to choose Larry over Isiah. I figured it would be the easiest thing to do since Martin and Andrew have been kind enough to reserve the Official "Isiah is Gone" thread for me to start. But I think when that day comes it will be best to speak from the heart. I just hope I can type through the tears of joy.

Of course this is assuming I don't just give up entirely, find another team and stop posting here altogether. From what I hear, rvhoss has already requested to be the Official starter of the "Islesfan is Gone!!" thread.

[Edited by - islesfan on 02-11-2007 10:25 PM]
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
nyk4ever
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2/11/2007  10:30 PM
Posted by islesfan:

I've actually thought about having something prewritten and started doing something last spring when it looked like the obvious choice was to choose Larry over Isiah. I figured it would be the easiest thing to do since Martin and Andrew have been kind enough to reserve the Official "Isiah is Gone" thread for me to start. But I think when that day comes it will be best to speak from the heart. I just hope I can type through the tears of joy.

Of course this is assuming I don't just give up entirely, find another team and stop posting here altogether. From what I hear, rvhoss has already requested to be the Official starter of the "Islesfan is Gone!!" thread.

[Edited by - islesfan on 02-11-2007 10:25 PM]

LOL, great job by Martin and Andrew, if anyone deserves the "Isiah is Fired thread," it's you.

I know one thing, the post you make for Isiah's firing is going to be quite a doozy, I'm almost looking as forward to that post as I am Isiah getting canned.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
islesfan
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2/11/2007  10:33 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by islesfan:

I've actually thought about having something prewritten and started doing something last spring when it looked like the obvious choice was to choose Larry over Isiah. I figured it would be the easiest thing to do since Martin and Andrew have been kind enough to reserve the Official "Isiah is Gone" thread for me to start. But I think when that day comes it will be best to speak from the heart. I just hope I can type through the tears of joy.

Of course this is assuming I don't just give up entirely, find another team and stop posting here altogether. From what I hear, rvhoss has already requested to be the Official starter of the "Islesfan is Gone!!" thread.

[Edited by - islesfan on 02-11-2007 10:25 PM]

LOL, great job by Martin and Andrew, if anyone deserves the "Isiah is Fired thread," it's you.

I know one thing, the post you make for Isiah's firing is going to be quite a doozy, I'm almost looking as forward to that post as I am Isiah getting canned.

I don't know what I'll say but I hope I get to say it soon.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TrueBlue
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2/11/2007  10:40 PM
If the team has shown evident progress why is there such a tremendous fear from ZAYU to tinker since he's done it all yr?
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
islesfan
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2/11/2007  10:54 PM
Because it's not about building for the future, it's about winning now.

If it weren't, Nate and Balkman would be getting PT over Francis and Rose and Frye or Lee would be starting with James being bought out.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TrueBlue
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2/11/2007  11:07 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Because it's not about building for the future, it's about winning now.

If it weren't, Nate and Balkman would be getting PT over Francis and Rose and Frye or Lee would be starting with James being bought out.

So this gets back to what I said 2mos ago about his coaching and summed it up to a T. He's coaching by feel or RANDOMLY with no clear plan. It's comical that this team actually is trying to win games instead of developing players and they sit 7gms under .500.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Anji
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2/11/2007  11:17 PM
So we want the Marbury, Francis, JJ2, Frye Curry Lineup because????

Keeping that line who mean Isiah can't adjust, but when Isiah does adjust it means he isn't following the plan? Can you say catch 20/20. Best players should play, unless you feel one guy clashes with another. We had two players who clashed(Marbury/Francis & Frye/Curry) and all three weren't the best player at their postion. Our best players pretty much play most of the game. And after the allstar break, Lee will be starting, so I don't see the problem with this.... at all. Other then to be argumentative......
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
djsunyc
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2/11/2007  11:22 PM
Posted by Anji:

So we want the Marbury, Francis, JJ2, Frye Curry Lineup because????

Keeping that line who mean Isiah can't adjust, but when Isiah does adjust it means he isn't following the plan? Can you say catch 20/20. Best players should play, unless you feel one guy clashes with another. We had two players who clashed(Marbury/Francis & Frye/Curry) and all three weren't the best player at their postion. Our best players pretty much play most of the game. And after the allstar break, Lee will be starting, so I don't see the problem with this.... at all. Other then to be argumentative......

isiah the gm put these players here. when he became coach, that was his plan...the same as his GM. but then isiah the coach had to change the plan. so what does that say about isiah the GM's plan in the first place?
islesfan
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2/11/2007  11:25 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Anji:

So we want the Marbury, Francis, JJ2, Frye Curry Lineup because????

Keeping that line who mean Isiah can't adjust, but when Isiah does adjust it means he isn't following the plan? Can you say catch 20/20. Best players should play, unless you feel one guy clashes with another. We had two players who clashed(Marbury/Francis & Frye/Curry) and all three weren't the best player at their postion. Our best players pretty much play most of the game. And after the allstar break, Lee will be starting, so I don't see the problem with this.... at all. Other then to be argumentative......

isiah the gm put these players here. when he became coach, that was his plan...the same as his GM. but then isiah the coach had to change the plan. so what does that say about isiah the GM's plan in the first place?

It means that Larry Brown was right.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TrueBlue
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2/11/2007  11:32 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Anji:

So we want the Marbury, Francis, JJ2, Frye Curry Lineup because????

Keeping that line who mean Isiah can't adjust, but when Isiah does adjust it means he isn't following the plan? Can you say catch 20/20. Best players should play, unless you feel one guy clashes with another. We had two players who clashed(Marbury/Francis & Frye/Curry) and all three weren't the best player at their postion. Our best players pretty much play most of the game. And after the allstar break, Lee will be starting, so I don't see the problem with this.... at all. Other then to be argumentative......

isiah the gm put these players here. when he became coach, that was his plan...the same as his GM. but then isiah the coach had to change the plan. so what does that say about isiah the GM's plan in the first place?

It means that Larry Brown was right.


I was going to post the same thing. Except say that what if the coach last yr abadoned what the GM had invisioned how would the fans HOMERS respond? Oh wait, this supposedly happened last yr and the LOVERS crapped all over LB. This yr is different though, it's support ZAYU no matter what he does or says.


[Edited by - TrueBlue on 02-11-2007 10:35 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
for better or worse, the knicks embrace their starting lineup

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