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Why you trade Lee or Frye
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King1
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2/6/2007  12:12 PM
You trade on of these two players for the following reasons. You can get a very good player in return, and get rid of a contract. If you trade one the other starts at the PF. You trade for a defensive perimeter player. The interior defense is bad, but they havent made Derek Anderson, Matt carrol, Rip getting 50, and Chucky Atkins into great players. Steph will guard once in a while but he is hurt. Q is hurt, and Craw cant guard a lamp post. Trade Frye and Craw for lets say an Artest type of player. Steph, Q, Artest, Lee, and Curry is a very good team and you have a more balanced team for the future. You dont trade Lee or Frye for another inside player, you develop one of them and let the other go.
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holfresh
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2/6/2007  12:18 PM

Are we trying to win a Championship this year??...Lets build around our youth movement...You trade for a guy like Artest because he is the final piece to get you over the hump...Knicks are on the way up that long hill...Have some patients..Ray Allen would be nice but not worth it...His best days are behind him, as is Artest...Lets draft and be patient and let the players grow...Let's watch lee and Frye develop..Relax...
Bippity10
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2/6/2007  12:24 PM
I agree. I don't want to see either go because I like both but Knicks come first. If you keep them both then one becomes a career bench player. OR has to learn the SF position which may or may not be possible. So if you have two young players with value that play the same postion are you better off

1.)playing one 25 minutes a night
2.)playing one out of position
3.)Trading for equal talent that can start at another position and fill one of your major weaknesses.

I called for the same thing after the '99 title run when we were left with Spree and Allan. I said we would be better served trading one of them for youth or at another position of weakness instead of having 2 good players that play the same position. I was crucified. We all know how that turned out.

The best way to improve your team sometimes is to deal from strenght and trade redundancy to fill another weakness. If you just trade guys you hate chances are other teams hate them too.
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King1
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2/6/2007  12:24 PM
You have two guys playing the same position and they both have trade value. Both of these players can start in the NBA. I guess I am getting impatient with the Isiah 6 year building plan. You can find someone younger than Artest I am just saying balance your team. You have all these guys that all they want to do is score. None of them want to do the dirty work that wins.
holfresh
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2/6/2007  12:25 PM

This year is what last year should have been...Let our young core play and develop...When the Knicks really matter, Marbs,Francis,maybe even Q will be long gone...Let's not hang guys of similar ages and contracts around our financial necks...We try to draft a point guard and a PF that play D...Lets not get crazy...Since November,the Knicks have been playing a touch less than .500 ball...Thats 40 wins annualized...That's progress...Patients...
Mondo
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2/6/2007  12:27 PM
Uhh I think David Lee does alot of our dirty work, finding someone younger and more talented them him with a smaller contract then he already has is impossible
eViL
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2/6/2007  12:27 PM
Colangelo traded Villanueva -- looks like that worked. It may have been unpopular. He may have traded some youth. He may have traded big-for-small. But he knew what he was doing. He's got a plan.
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Bippity10
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2/6/2007  12:32 PM
Posted by holfresh:


This year is what last year should have been...Let our young core play and develop...When the Knicks really matter, Marbs,Francis,maybe even Q will be long gone...Let's not hang guys of similar ages and contracts around our financial necks...We try to draft a point guard and a PF that play D...Lets not get crazy...Since November,the Knicks have been playing a touch less than .500 ball...Thats 40 wins annualized...That's progress...Patients...


So what do you do 3 years from now when you have 2 guys that play the same position and bothe deserve to start? You give one guy 20 minutes off the bench? Do you trade him for someone that can help at another position of weakness and give you 35 minutes a night? What if he doesn't want to come off the bench and decides to go somewhere where he can start? Lot of issues to address and you don't have to be a hater or lover to realize that they are issues that we may be forced to address.

If you trade one you don't have to trade them for an old guy. You can trade for a younger guy or a draft pick that can also grow with Eddie. I'm just a believer that until you get a core of 5 future starters that play 5 different postions you don't waste your time with redundandcy.
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holfresh
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2/6/2007  12:33 PM

Both players will have the same trade value next year as they do this year... Let's not make a trade because we have the assets..Lets trade because we have a player that will fill our needs...True one will have to be a bench player if we keep both...But there is enough minutes there where they can be happy for now...I'm very reluctant about getting rid of Frye because he can step right in if Curry goes down...Lee we also have to keep because this guy has grown so much and he isn't finished growing yet...It's like trading Ariza before he realized his potential..you never get fair value...Frye and Lee are talents that work at their craft, they will get better...Trade them now, we won't get good value for them at this point....
SlimPack
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2/6/2007  12:36 PM
it depends on whether or not the knicks need to win as many games as possible this year and when isiah plans on competing for a title. from that standpoint every need that the knicks have need not be addressed right now, especially at the cost of someone like frye or lee. although I wouldnt be against trading either one for an equally young and and around as talented player who fits better into isiah's vision for how this team will play. unfortunately i dont think he has one.
SlimPack
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2/6/2007  12:40 PM
Posted by holfresh:


This year is what last year should have been...Let our young core play and develop...When the Knicks really matter, Marbs,Francis,maybe even Q will be long gone...Let's not hang guys of similar ages and contracts around our financial necks...We try to draft a point guard and a PF that play D...Lets not get crazy...Since November,the Knicks have been playing a touch less than .500 ball...Thats 40 wins annualized...That's progress...Patients...



actually isiah has gone on record as saying that last year the focus was on to win games, and not to develop the young players.
crzymdups
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2/6/2007  12:44 PM
I would trade Frye. I don't think Artest is realistic with the NY connection and Isiah's past history with him. Maybe someone like Mike Miller? especially if Memphis is looking to trade Gasol, Frye is a decent young, cheap replacement for Gasol.
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djsunyc
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2/6/2007  12:45 PM
Posted by eViL:

Colangelo traded Villanueva -- looks like that worked. It may have been unpopular. He may have traded some youth. He may have traded big-for-small. But he knew what he was doing. He's got a plan.

yup. but the major difference is that colangelo didn't draft villenueva so he had no vested interest in the guy.
djsunyc
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2/6/2007  12:47 PM
i think the trade we should examine is something like curry + balkman/nate for biedrins + pietrus.

that gives you a perimeter defender hustler in pietrus, two motor guys that will grab 30 boards a game in lee and biedrins and frye as your focus on offense.

but that's just me.
crzymdups
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2/6/2007  12:47 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by eViL:

Colangelo traded Villanueva -- looks like that worked. It may have been unpopular. He may have traded some youth. He may have traded big-for-small. But he knew what he was doing. He's got a plan.

yup. but the major difference is that colangelo didn't draft villenueva so he had no vested interest in the guy.

very good point. I would hope Isiah has realized that Curry and Frye can't work together though.
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oohah
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2/6/2007  12:49 PM
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by holfresh:


This year is what last year should have been...Let our young core play and develop...When the Knicks really matter, Marbs,Francis,maybe even Q will be long gone...Let's not hang guys of similar ages and contracts around our financial necks...We try to draft a point guard and a PF that play D...Lets not get crazy...Since November,the Knicks have been playing a touch less than .500 ball...Thats 40 wins annualized...That's progress...Patients...



actually isiah has gone on record as saying that last year the focus was on to win games, and not to develop the young players.

Did Isiah actually say that the focus was to win, and not to develop young players?

Why are winning and development considered to be mutually exclusive on this board?

Curry and Lee have certainly shown strong development.

oohah



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SlimPack
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2/6/2007  12:51 PM
Posted by holfresh:


This year is what last year should have been...Let our young core play and develop...When the Knicks really matter, Marbs,Francis,maybe even Q will be long gone...Let's not hang guys of similar ages and contracts around our financial necks...We try to draft a point guard and a PF that play D...Lets not get crazy...Since November,the Knicks have been playing a touch less than .500 ball...Thats 40 wins annualized...That's progress...Patients...


something like that means next to nothing, oftimes teams will go on runs or finish the season strong only to come out and suck for all of the season after. its true that the knicks are 3 games under 500 since november, but snipping out and analyzing mini stretch like that.. I dont think anyone could get a true sense of how good this or any other team is from something like that.

anyway i have question, when marbs, francis and possibly q are gone, how will this team be competive? after 2 of those 3 are improtant peices to this team.
SlimPack
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2/6/2007  12:53 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by holfresh:


This year is what last year should have been...Let our young core play and develop...When the Knicks really matter, Marbs,Francis,maybe even Q will be long gone...Let's not hang guys of similar ages and contracts around our financial necks...We try to draft a point guard and a PF that play D...Lets not get crazy...Since November,the Knicks have been playing a touch less than .500 ball...Thats 40 wins annualized...That's progress...Patients...



actually isiah has gone on record as saying that last year the focus was on to win games, and not to develop the young players.

Did Isiah actually say that the focus was to win, and not to develop young players?

Why are winning and development considered to be mutually exclusive on this board?

Curry and Lee have certainly shown strong development.

oohah

yeah he did. and they almost always are mutually exlusive. obviously the more a young players plays the faster he will develop and vice versa. however playing someone that young as opposed to a vet will mean less wins.

[Edited by - Slimpack on 02-06-2007 12:53 PM]
Nalod
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2/6/2007  12:53 PM
YOu knew he wasn't fooling cuz you knew what he was doing.......

Yes Hollfresh, this is last years team. Let them jell, and we can't add contracts one year and dump the next.

Time is what this team needs and then figure out how to enhance what you got.

Starphuching is nice but I really don't want to compromise the youth movement.

Trading TJ for Villenuava was to fill a need, and it was youth for youth. Toronto is on the right track and with Bosh and the Itialian fella they are set at the 3 and 4 and just need a shotblocker-rebounder type for up front. They got young KG and Dirk on that team right now and took a gamble on TJs back.

We are not solid on our youth core and are redunant in areas.

Trade Nate is fine by me. If someone wants Frye and is willing to pay up, I'd listen if I were Isiah.

But if I were Isiah,...... well thats another story.
holfresh
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2/6/2007  1:02 PM
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by holfresh:


This year is what last year should have been...Let our young core play and develop...When the Knicks really matter, Marbs,Francis,maybe even Q will be long gone...Let's not hang guys of similar ages and contracts around our financial necks...We try to draft a point guard and a PF that play D...Lets not get crazy...Since November,the Knicks have been playing a touch less than .500 ball...Thats 40 wins annualized...That's progress...Patients...


something like that means next to nothing, oftimes teams will go on runs or finish the season strong only to come out and suck for all of the season after. its true that the knicks are 3 games under 500 since november, but snipping out and analyzing mini stretch like that.. I dont think anyone could get a true sense of how good this or any other team is from something like that.

anyway i have question, when marbs, francis and possibly q are gone, how will this team be competive? after 2 of those 3 are improtant peices to this team.

That "mini strech" is two thirds of the season....After a 5-11 start in November, the Knicks are 16-17 in December,January,and now February...The way the Knicks are player now, Do you think the go on a big win streak or a big losing streak...I say the former is more likely...

That Marbs/Francis question is 2.5 years away...If they are still the focus of the Knicks then the Knicks are really screwed....They won't win...It's the challenge of the coach and front office to make Frye,Curry and Lee the focus...
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