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Ariza trade set other moves in motion...NY Times
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holfresh
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2/2/2007  1:07 AM
Whatever goes wrong for the Knicks this weekend — and something surely will, given their recent ill fate — Coach Isiah Thomas will at least be spared one cringe. He will not have to see Trevor Ariza soaring over his team for a thunderous, momentum-altering dunk.


Trevor Ariza was traded last season to the Magic for Steve Francis, who has done little for the Knicks.

Ariza earned his reputation as a frequent flier with the Knicks, who drafted him out of U.C.L.A. in 2004. But he was buried on the bench by Coach Larry Brown last season, then shipped to Orlando in a trade for Steve Francis, a three-time All-Star. That deal now looks like a steal for the Magic.

Ariza, 21, was blossoming into a key reserve before injuring his right knee Jan. 10. Francis has been alternately injured and ineffective. Neither player will be in uniform when the Knicks play tomorrow night in Orlando.

“When I see Trevor, I’m going to give him a big hug and a kiss,” said Thomas, who as team president drafted Ariza with the 43rd pick two and a half years ago. “I’m happy that he’s doing well.”

Thomas called Ariza “one of my favorite guys that I drafted” and said he was “extremely proud of him.”

“I don’t like that he’s hurt,” Thomas said, “but I’m glad that he’s hurt because we play them next.”

Thomas has made a dizzying number of roster moves in the past three years, and most have been panned — usually for the players the Knicks acquired, rather than the ones they gave up. But, pending the outcome of this June’s draft (when Chicago can swap first-round picks with the Knicks), Ariza is probably the one player the Knicks will regret trading away.

He is young and supremely athletic, the qualities Thomas touts the most. He is also a dedicated defender and a hard worker. His offense is limited but growing. Ariza spent last summer working on his jump shot, which Magic officials say is now reliable to 16 or 17 feet.

“To me, Trevor has always had very good basketball instincts,” Magic General Manager Otis Smith said. “He’s just pulling those things out of him.”

Losing Ariza is only one reason why the Francis trade — made at Brown’s behest — could be regarded as Thomas’s worst deal. Consider the domino effect: After trading Ariza, the Knicks were desperate for an athletic small forward. So they drafted Renaldo Balkman with the 20th pick last June and passed on the gifted point guard Marcus Williams. The stated reason? Because they already had too many guards, a glut created when they acquired Francis. The Knicks later spent $30 million to sign small forward Jared Jeffries, who has been a bust.

Thomas certainly would have made different decisions last summer if Ariza, and not Francis, were on the roster.


Before spraining a knee ligament, Ariza was averaging 8.6 points with a .532 shooting percentage, 4.5 rebounds, 1.2 steals and 1.3 assists, playing only 23 minutes a game for Orlando. He scored in double figures in eight straight games from Dec. 20 to Jan. 5.

A rangy 6 feet 8 inches, Ariza can defend four positions, and the Magic often assigns him to the opponent’s best player. With a nose for the ball and great leaping ability, he is a superior offensive rebounder and nicely complements Dwight Howard, the Magic’s gifted young center.

“When he’s on the floor with Dwight, their offensive rebounding is crazy,” Smith said.

Ariza has always thrived in the open court, but with a reliable jumper, “He’s going to be scary,” Smith said.

Ariza said he used visualization techniques as he worked on his jumper in the off-season, imagining himself shooting against every guard and small forward in the league.

“I just kind of went back to my childhood,” Ariza said in a recent telephone interview. “I always imagined myself going up against Reggie Miller, Michael Jordan, guys like that, and I had to make the shot to win the game.”

Ariza has adopted the number of another childhood idol, Penny Hardaway, who was traded with him in the Francis deal. (Hardaway was immediately waived.) With Hardaway’s blessing, Ariza wears No. 1, Hardaway’s number during his six years in Orlando. “That brings me a lot of joy,” Ariza said.

Ariza said he should be back next month and looked forward to playing at Madison Square Garden when the Magic visits March 26. When he last played there, for the Knicks, Ariza was being assailed by Brown as “delusional” during a disagreement about his role.

“I learned a lot from that situation,” Ariza said. “I learned that no matter what you do, nothing’s going to be given to you, and you always have to work for everything you get.”

It was Brown who pushed to acquire Francis, which led to Ariza’s unplanned exit. The Knicks had offered a package of Jamal Crawford and Maurice Taylor. But Smith was leery of their big contracts and he wanted Ariza.

“Isiah fought me,” said Smith, who made re-signing Ariza a priority last summer. “I think the kid’s going to be a special basketball player.”

AUTOADVERT
Rich
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2/2/2007  1:13 AM
I like Balkman a lot, but they still could have drafted Williams at #20 and Balkman at #29 based on value alone.

It can't be said enough. The two biggest problems during Isiah's tenure is not getting top three protection for this year's pick, and generally overpaying for almost every asset.
Rich
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2/2/2007  2:58 AM
A similar article:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02022007/sports/knicks/magic_man_knicks_marc_berman.htm
fishmike
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2/2/2007  7:49 AM
yup... easily Isiah's worst move (there are so many to choose from)

If I could have anyone back it would be that one... no brainer
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
bigbeast
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2/2/2007  8:06 AM
Its all LB's fault.....
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
oohah
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2/2/2007  8:07 AM
I remember guys were KILLING Ariza around here right before he got traded.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Bippity10
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2/2/2007  8:11 AM
When you have no long-term plan you are forced into desperation moves. JJ, Renaldo, JJ2. That's the way of the Knick world.

We are rebuilding but things are so awful and guys are aobut to be fired so let's make a desperation move, trading a young guy for a vet. This is the way NY is run.
I just hope that people will like me
fishmike
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2/2/2007  8:32 AM
Posted by oohah:

I remember guys were KILLING Ariza around here right before he got traded.

oohah
if disagreeing with him being the next Marion = killing him than I am certainly an offender.

More than losing Ariza I'm more bothered by the other stuff mentioned. I think this trade above all affected his drafting pattern, which has been vastly overrated.

If Isiah drafted Bynum and Marcus Williams I would say let him stay and see where how things go for the next couple of years.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Andrew
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2/2/2007  8:42 AM
What a great trade for Orlando. This off season they have all sorts of cap flexibility if they choose to use it. Wow...this really reminds me of the Suns trade.
PURE KNICKS LOVE
TheGame
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2/2/2007  8:53 AM
Losing Ariza is only one reason why the Francis trade — made at Brown’s behest — could be regarded as Thomas’s worst deal. Consider the domino effect: After trading Ariza, the Knicks were desperate for an athletic small forward. So they drafted Renaldo Balkman with the 20th pick last June and passed on the gifted point guard Marcus Williams. The stated reason? Because they already had too many guards, a glut created when they acquired Francis. The Knicks later spent $30 million to sign small forward Jared Jeffries, who has been a bust.

Thomas certainly would have made different decisions last summer if Ariza, and not Francis, were on the roster.

That pretty much sums it up. The Ariza trade had a domino effect that has really set us back. I am not sure who I blame more, Larry for requesting the move knowing it would not work, or IT for going along with the trade when he probably had serious doubts it would work also. I, however, am happy with Balkman. If he can improve his jumper, which I think he can, he will be a better player than Ariza. In his first year, he has shown to be a better shot-blocker, rebounder, ball-handler than Ariza and he plays at the same energy level as Lee. He has alot of work to do, but I really think that he can become a great SF for us.
Trust the Process
fishmike
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2/2/2007  8:57 AM
Posted by TheGame:
I am not sure who I blame more, Larry for requesting the move knowing it would not work, or IT for going along with the trade when he probably had serious doubts it would work also.
Let me help you with this. The person to blame is Isiah because he and only he had the authority to make such a transaction. Its also consistant with other trades Isiah has made, very consistant.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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2/2/2007  9:12 AM
THe great Larry debate is never to be resolved. But why in the hell if Isiah loved Reezy so much did they just say "NO" for that insane trade? They booted larry anyway and I think by then there was a thought that perhaps Larry was not gonna work out.

This win now attitude does not work, even in the short run.

Isiah was right not to draft Williams because of the glut at guard, but he created that glut and the need for a 3 which Balkman fits very well.

The lack of patience for opportunity kinda kills it for Isiah. Jackie Blue turned out better than JJ1, Reezy=Balkman, Williams is better than Nate, and JJ2 is not money well spent.

We could have rebuilt on the fly and not been worse record wise.

This is pure hindsight but how many of us objected to Isiahs methoeds?

The guy is good at the young guys but by trying to reduce his risk he creates a clusterphuch instead.

Given all the damm money wasted, even if Marbury were to be bought out it still would have equated to the other monies he has pissed away!

It would not freak me out if we Isiah constructed a disciplined rebuild. I could get behind it.

WTF, winning less than 40 games is happening anyway!
MS
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2/2/2007  9:29 AM
Because Isiah is a ****ing loser! He is still harping on this, you simply say no if your to dumb to realize what your coach is doing trying to get you fired.

He hasn't made one great move since he has been here outside of drafting david lee, not one every deal he has made we get ****ed long term
babyKnicks
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2/2/2007  9:31 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by TheGame:
I am not sure who I blame more, Larry for requesting the move knowing it would not work, or IT for going along with the trade when he probably had serious doubts it would work also.
Let me help you with this. The person to blame is Isiah because he and only he had the authority to make such a transaction. Its also consistant with other trades Isiah has made, very consistant.

I disagree with you 100%.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
JrZyHuStLa
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2/2/2007  9:37 AM
The Knicks last season traded what they need most today...

A young, athletic, defensive minded wingman.

Pathetic !

[Edited by - jrzyhustla on 02-02-2007 09:38 AM]
djsunyc
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2/2/2007  9:37 AM
isiah had a shot to bring him back this summer via the MLE. i believe ariza's agent also contacted isiah but he passed and brought in jeffries. you can blame whomever you want about the trade that sent him away, but isiah is the lone reason as to why he's not here now.
MS
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2/2/2007  9:39 AM
you would disagree the coach makes suggestions the gm makes decisions, their was not one analyst out there that was in favor of the trade, much like there wasn't one in favor of the James or Jefferies signing, but Isiah went ahead and traded for a guy that is notrious for acting like a child, bitching and killer locker room chemistry.

The only way the trade made sense is if you had someone lined up to take marbury/francis, but they didn't isiah took on another terrible deal and created dissension in the lockeroom.....

Isiah is fully to blame, you tell your coach listen i just got you Jalen I can't take on 32 million between the two for 5 more wins it just doesn't make sense.....period, if isiah couldn't see that brown was ****ing with him, then isiah is at fault
MS
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2/2/2007  9:43 AM
You pile up assets:

Marcus Williams would have been an asset, Ariza could have been signed on the cheap could have been an asset, they can help you move players that are undesirable...

You don't gamble over and over again. The Q trade was a gamble, and guess what its blowing up, q is going to be injured the rest of his career and nate robinson is not good enough to justify blowing cap space. He gambled on francis and it blew up, he gamble on older players and it blew up, he even gamble on taking frye a notriously soft jump shooter that didn't rebound in college and its backfiring, curry was a gamble and for all his offensive skills his defense loses games.

If you have a plan you stick with it and don't change it. Isiah continues to prove himself incompetant.
MS
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2/2/2007  9:51 AM
And frankly if you think Isiah is a good talent evalutator.

Look at Jefferies career numbers, since he is a great defensive player, keep in mind he is 6'11, long and quick

4.8rbs 0.7stls 0.5blks what about those numbers says he is a good defensive player, he is a 58% free throw shooter and he is a sf

Everyone knows the James signing was terrible but why commit that many years to someone with career averages of

4.6pts 3.2rbs 1.1blks

So when you tell me you don't think Isiah made the trade, look at those two moves, along with the Crawford trade and his 7year 55million dollar deal and tell me it wasn't Isiah.

The man can't do anything right
Bonn1997
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2/2/2007  9:59 AM
Posted by fishmike:

yup... easily Isiah's worst move (there are so many to choose from)

If I could have anyone back it would be that one... no brainer

I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic. (It's hard to tell over the internet!). I'd undo the Curry and Marbury trades well before that one.
Ariza trade set other moves in motion...NY Times

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