This is all easier said than done, I know that, but here goes. First and foremost, like Michael6835 mentioned in his post, the two biggest problems are indeed Crawford and Jeffries. First, to be fair, Crawford does do a lot of good out there (I agree with some that his passing is very underrated and he's got guts and the ability to make shots with the game on the line, for example) - but I fear that under Isiah he will never improve to that next level where we need him to be. Remember the training camp footage MSG was showing early on of Zeke yelling encouragement at Jamal: "Get hot Jamal! Get hot! You've got to stay hot Jamal! You should just step out on the floor and be hot!" Bottom line is that under Isiah the guy has the green light to do whatever he wants out on the court and it's now very apparent that Zeke is content to live with all of Jamal's shortcomings without trying to identify and correct them - and that's a problem.

As for Jeffries, I said it at the time of the acquisition, the guy is one of the most unremarkable players in the history of the league at that size. He can't score, doesn't rebound, is not a shotblocker, is a terrible passer and very turnover-prone, and his defensive abilities are COMPLETELY OVERRATED. OK, so that leaves the intangibles, the little things I thought this guy might be able to bring to the table. I'm a HUGE Yankee fan and when I think of intangibles the first guy I think of without any hesitation at all is Derek Jeter. Now of course Jeter's an overall star player and in a completely different stratosphere than Jeffries, we all know that, but it's the little things that Jeter brings to the table (the plays in the hole, going out on pop-ups, hitting the other way, his clutch hitting, being in the right place at the right time like that play at the plate in that Oakland playoff game, etc.), you know, THINGS THAT DON'T SHOW UP IN THE BOX SCORE, that make Jeter one of the most special players to ever put on a Yankee uniform. And those are the sort of intangible qualities I was sure Jeffries was going to provide. Well you know what, he doesn't. No deflections. No tip-ins. No diving on the floor. No drawing offensive fouls. No locking up his man. NOTHING!!!! INVISIBLE and UNREMARKABLE. That's what I think of when I see him play. For the time being, he needs to sit right at the end of the bench with Jerome James and all of his minutes should be split up among Balkman, Lee and Q until we can come up with something better.

I can't help thinking how much better this team might be with the following changes:

NEED TO GO (however they can get rid of these players they have to do it):

(1) Jamal Crawford - He won't get any better, at least not here. He'll win a game here and there but he'll shoot the Knicks right out of countless others. For me, if the Knicks are ever able to get there hands on a really good 3, Q plays the 2 full time and Jamal's minutes should be reduced.

(2) Jeffries - Needs to sit immediately. Provides absolutely nothing. He's wasting minutes that should go to other players.

(3) Frye - My #1 trading chip. I just pray he's enough to get back a decent player in a trade as the deadline approaches (Mickael Pietrus anyone??) Like Crawford, I just don't know how much better this guy will ever be. Looks great shooting the ball but has absolutely horrible rebounding, shotblocking and overall defensive instincts. His game is the furthest thing you want out of your PF esp. playing next to Curry. I actually liked his game in college a hell of a lot better than what he's become with us.

(3) James - Complete waste. A total check collector. At least Isiah realizes it and doesn't play him.

(4) Francis - If he's ever healthy he can help, but he doesn't fit here. Never did.

(5) Nate Robinson - Trading chip #2. I'm actually willing to give Nate a little longer leash than most on this list because of his uniqueness and over incredible athletic ability that can change a game but truth be told he's immature, stubborn as hell, has trouble running the offense and is a terrible perimeter defender which is the most surprising and puzzling thing because it's a deficiency that has nothing to do at all with his lack of size. As a backup PG, there are better options right now, even in the D-league, believe it or not.

(6) Rose - Looks like a good locker room/bench guy but he doesn't fit here esp. with the emergence of Lee. Too expensive to include in a trade. Should be bought out after the season to open up the roster spot.

(7) Cato - Ditto comments about Rose. At least he's good trade fodder with the inexpensive/expiring contract. He was brought here to be a practice player to bang Curry around and that's all. Man, Jerome James can't even do that?????

(8) Collins - Poor kid will never get any burn here at all. Complete waste of a pick that should've been used to fill deficiencies (Justin Williams, Alexander Johnson, etc...) Should go in a trade.

GUYS I WANT (target these guys right now as possible solutions/upgrades):

(1) Andrei Kirilenko - Granted that contract scares me, but whatever man, he's young and one of the best 2-way SFs in the game. We've got to take advantage of the bad situation out there right now. As long as he's healthy, Zeke should be working the phones hard on this one. I'd offer all my trading assets except Lee.

(2) Ron Artest - Rumors are Sac. might be trying to unload him. Ditto AK-47 - I offer all my chips except Lee. He's that good and still relatively young.

(3) Mikael Pietrus - young, explosive wing that no longer has a home in Golden State esp. after the big trade. He can shoot it, take it to the basket and play solid D. He'd be perfect - him at the 3, Q as the full-time 2. I actually like hearing him talk about himself too - he thinks he should be getting more touches, more shots, more minutes, and he said that when Jason Richardson was healthy. Some might think that's ****y, I think it's pure confidence - he's a guy who believes he can be a star and you know what, so do I. If we can't land AK-47 or Artest (my first and 2nd trade options) we go get this guy. If he winds up going to Detroit for a guy like Nazr Mohammed and we never even inquire I'm gonna be really pissed off.

(4) Justin Williams - If Sacramento lets him go after his 10-day contract is up we get him and don't even think twice about it. If used properly he'd be an incredible 3rd frontcourt player to compliment Curry and Lee. He is what he is: an incredible weakside shotblocker/help defender and a very good rebounder. We don't have anything close to a player like him. Zeke needs to keep an eye on him. If he becomes available, cut Cato and go get him!

(5) Hilton Armstrong - For whatever reason he's not getting any minutes for the Hornets. I know he was banged up a little early on, but I think he's healthy now. Maybe Byron Scott doesn't like him. Maybe he prefers Cedric Simmons instead, who knows? But how he's not getting any mins. behind Chandler and West is a mystery. He's better than Simmons and he's everything I would love Channing Frye to be. He's active, a solid rebounder and an incredible weakside defender/shotblocker. Would be an INCREDIBLE 3rd big to team up with Curry and Lee. Plus, he's no slouch on offense either. He's actually got a real nice touch for a big man out to about 20 feet and looks comfortable enough posting up. His offensive game is one of the best kept secrets in the NBA to be honest. He came from a program that had enough scorers in U-Conn. and he might never be asked to supply offense with N.O. too but I'm telling you he can play both sides of the ball. Maybe a Frye/Nate/Balkman/Mardy Collins-type package (Nate and Collins would be nice backups for Paul at the 1, better than Jannero Pargo).

(6) Louis Amundson - D-leaguer playing for Colorado/played for UNLV. At 6'9"/ 230 lbs. he's the closest thing to David Lee that there is. Averaging about 12 pts/7 reb/2 blocks per in about 25 minutes. He's a 3/4 that's aggressive as ****, relentless and a real solid defender and rebounder. He's actually got a slightly more advanced offensive game than Lee at this point. Looks for his offense a little more than Lee does but very, very similiar players. Already a much, much better option than Jared Jeffries. Imagine, two David Lee's on the court at the same time! I say sign this kid to a 10-day contract right now! Really a complete mystery he wasn't drafted, at least in the 2nd round. Whatever, he'd be a great addition. Would be in a Knick uniform already if I were at the controls.

(7) Chris Rodgers - D-Leaguer playing for Albuquerque/played at Arizona. 6'4" combo. guard who's a absolutely MAGNIFICENT on-the-ball defender. Seeing him hawk his man is a thing of beauty. He can also score a little, run an offense and he makes his FTs at a high clip. I'd sign him in an instant if we ever dealt Nate and/or Jamal and needed a reserve guard.

(8) Frank Williams - D-leaguer playing for Sioux Falls/played for Illinois. 6'3" PG played for us before and played well. Can shot and run the offense and like Rodgers makes his FTs. Plays good D (not the type of D Rodgers plays though). He'd be a solid backup if we ever unloaded Nate or Jamal and Chris Rodgers wasn't available.

(9) JP Batista - Not sure where this guy is now (he's not on a D-league roster) but he's definitely a FA. You guys all remember him at Gonzaga - a wide load, a guy that can score on the block and a more than capable rebounder. He actually has great hands too despite that bad turnover in the game Gonzaga was eliminated in last season. A guy that did all the dirty work for that team. He actually allowed Morrison to just concentrate on scoring the ball while also managing to score the ball himself quite often very quietly. Reminds me a lot of Eddy Curry - not as tall as Eddy, but def. as wide and a very similiar offensive game in close albeit not as refined as Eddy's at this early stage. When thinking about big men that can come in and do a lot of dirty work you can do a hell of a lot worst than this guy.

Interesting group. It seems we often value our guys less and other teams guys more.

Posted by Finestrg:

This is all easier said than done, I know that, but here goes. First and foremost, like Michael6835 mentioned in his post, the two biggest problems are indeed Crawford and Jeffries. First, to be fair, Crawford does do a lot of good out there (I agree with some that his passing is very underrated and he's got guts and the ability to make shots with the game on the line, for example) - but I fear that under Isiah he will never improve to that next level where we need him to be. Remember the training camp footage MSG was showing early on of Zeke yelling encouragement at Jamal: "Get hot Jamal! Get hot! You've got to stay hot Jamal! You should just step out on the floor and be hot!" Bottom line is that under Isiah the guy has the green light to do whatever he wants out on the court and it's now very apparent that Zeke is content to live with all of Jamal's shortcomings without trying to identify and correct them - and that's a problem.

As for Jeffries, I said it at the time of the acquisition, the guy is one of the most unremarkable players in the history of the league at that size. He can't score, doesn't rebound, is not a shotblocker, is a terrible passer and very turnover-prone, and his defensive abilities are COMPLETELY OVERRATED. OK, so that leaves the intangibles, the little things I thought this guy might be able to bring to the table. I'm a HUGE Yankee fan and when I think of intangibles the first guy I think of without any hesitation at all is Derek Jeter. Now of course Jeter's an overall star player and in a completely different stratosphere than Jeffries, we all know that, but it's the little things that Jeter brings to the table (the plays in the hole, going out on pop-ups, hitting the other way, his clutch hitting, being in the right place at the right time like that play at the plate in that Oakland playoff game, etc.), you know, THINGS THAT DON'T SHOW UP IN THE BOX SCORE, that make Jeter one of the most special players to ever put on a Yankee uniform. And those are the sort of intangible qualities I was sure Jeffries was going to provide. Well you know what, he doesn't. No deflections. No tip-ins. No diving on the floor. No drawing offensive fouls. No locking up his man. NOTHING!!!! INVISIBLE and UNREMARKABLE. That's what I think of when I see him play. For the time being, he needs to sit right at the end of the bench with Jerome James and all of his minutes should be split up among Balkman, Lee and Q until we can come up with something better.

I can't help thinking how much better this team might be with the following changes:

NEED TO GO (however they can get rid of these players they have to do it):

(1) Jamal Crawford - He won't get any better, at least not here. He'll win a game here and there but he'll shoot the Knicks right out of countless others. For me, if the Knicks are ever able to get there hands on a really good 3, Q plays the 2 full time and Jamal's minutes should be reduced.

(2) Jeffries - Needs to sit immediately. Provides absolutely nothing. He's wasting minutes that should go to other players.

(3) Frye - My #1 trading chip. I just pray he's enough to get back a decent player in a trade as the deadline approaches (Mickael Pietrus anyone??) Like Crawford, I just don't know how much better this guy will ever be. Looks great shooting the ball but has absolutely horrible rebounding, shotblocking and overall defensive instincts. His game is the furthest thing you want out of your PF esp. playing next to Curry. I actually liked his game in college a hell of a lot better than what he's become with us.

(3) James - Complete waste. A total check collector. At least Isiah realizes it and doesn't play him.

(4) Francis - If he's ever healthy he can help, but he doesn't fit here. Never did.

(5) Nate Robinson - Trading chip #2. I'm actually willing to give Nate a little longer leash than most on this list because of his uniqueness and over incredible athletic ability that can change a game but truth be told he's immature, stubborn as hell, has trouble running the offense and is a terrible perimeter defender which is the most surprising and puzzling thing because it's a deficiency that has nothing to do at all with his lack of size. As a backup PG, there are better options right now, even in the D-league, believe it or not.

(6) Rose - Looks like a good locker room/bench guy but he doesn't fit here esp. with the emergence of Lee. Too expensive to include in a trade. Should be bought out after the season to open up the roster spot.

(7) Cato - Ditto comments about Rose. At least he's good trade fodder with the inexpensive/expiring contract. He was brought here to be a practice player to bang Curry around and that's all. Man, Jerome James can't even do that?????

(8) Collins - Poor kid will never get any burn here at all. Complete waste of a pick that should've been used to fill deficiencies (Justin Williams, Alexander Johnson, etc...) Should go in a trade.

GUYS I WANT (target these guys right now as possible solutions/upgrades):

(1) Andrei Kirilenko - Granted that contract scares me, but whatever man, he's young and one of the best 2-way SFs in the game. We've got to take advantage of the bad situation out there right now. As long as he's healthy, Zeke should be working the phones hard on this one. I'd offer all my trading assets except Lee.

(2) Ron Artest - Rumors are Sac. might be trying to unload him. Ditto AK-47 - I offer all my chips except Lee. He's that good and still relatively young.

(3) Mikael Pietrus - young, explosive wing that no longer has a home in Golden State esp. after the big trade. He can shoot it, take it to the basket and play solid D. He'd be perfect - him at the 3, Q as the full-time 2. I actually like hearing him talk about himself too - he thinks he should be getting more touches, more shots, more minutes, and he said that when Jason Richardson was healthy. Some might think that's ****y, I think it's pure confidence - he's a guy who believes he can be a star and you know what, so do I. If we can't land AK-47 or Artest (my first and 2nd trade options) we go get this guy. If he winds up going to Detroit for a guy like Nazr Mohammed and we never even inquire I'm gonna be really pissed off.

(4) Justin Williams - If Sacramento lets him go after his 10-day contract is up we get him and don't even think twice about it. If used properly he'd be an incredible 3rd frontcourt player to compliment Curry and Lee. He is what he is: an incredible weakside shotblocker/help defender and a very good rebounder. We don't have anything close to a player like him. Zeke needs to keep an eye on him. If he becomes available, cut Cato and go get him!

(5) Hilton Armstrong - For whatever reason he's not getting any minutes for the Hornets. I know he was banged up a little early on, but I think he's healthy now. Maybe Byron Scott doesn't like him. Maybe he prefers Cedric Simmons instead, who knows? But how he's not getting any mins. behind Chandler and West is a mystery. He's better than Simmons and he's everything I would love Channing Frye to be. He's active, a solid rebounder and an incredible weakside defender/shotblocker. Would be an INCREDIBLE 3rd big to team up with Curry and Lee. Plus, he's no slouch on offense either. He's actually got a real nice touch for a big man out to about 20 feet and looks comfortable enough posting up. His offensive game is one of the best kept secrets in the NBA to be honest. He came from a program that had enough scorers in U-Conn. and he might never be asked to supply offense with N.O. too but I'm telling you he can play both sides of the ball. Maybe a Frye/Nate/Balkman/Mardy Collins-type package (Nate and Collins would be nice backups for Paul at the 1, better than Jannero Pargo).

(6) Louis Amundson - D-leaguer playing for Colorado/played for UNLV. At 6'9"/ 230 lbs. he's the closest thing to David Lee that there is. Averaging about 12 pts/7 reb/2 blocks per in about 25 minutes. He's a 3/4 that's aggressive as ****, relentless and a real solid defender and rebounder. He's actually got a slightly more advanced offensive game than Lee at this point. Looks for his offense a little more than Lee does but very, very similiar players. Already a much, much better option than Jared Jeffries. Imagine, two David Lee's on the court at the same time! I say sign this kid to a 10-day contract right now! Really a complete mystery he wasn't drafted, at least in the 2nd round. Whatever, he'd be a great addition. Would be in a Knick uniform already if I were at the controls.

(7) Chris Rodgers - D-Leaguer playing for Albuquerque/played at Arizona. 6'4" combo. guard who's a absolutely MAGNIFICENT on-the-ball defender. Seeing him hawk his man is a thing of beauty. He can also score a little, run an offense and he makes his FTs at a high clip. I'd sign him in an instant if we ever dealt Nate and/or Jamal and needed a reserve guard.

(8) Frank Williams - D-leaguer playing for Sioux Falls/played for Illinois. 6'3" PG played for us before and played well. Can shot and run the offense and like Rodgers makes his FTs. Plays good D (not the type of D Rodgers plays though). He'd be a solid backup if we ever unloaded Nate or Jamal and Chris Rodgers wasn't available.

(9) JP Batista - Not sure where this guy is now (he's not on a D-league roster) but he's definitely a FA. You guys all remember him at Gonzaga - a wide load, a guy that can score on the block and a more than capable rebounder. He actually has great hands too despite that bad turnover in the game Gonzaga was eliminated in last season. A guy that did all the dirty work for that team. He actually allowed Morrison to just concentrate on scoring the ball while also managing to score the ball himself quite often very quietly. Reminds me a lot of Eddy Curry - not as tall as Eddy, but def. as wide and a very similiar offensive game in close albeit not as refined as Eddy's at this early stage. When thinking about big men that can come in and do a lot of dirty work you can do a hell of a lot worst than this guy.

Wow...someone had some free time on his/her hands.

Ya that was quite some post there Finest.

I agree, this is the PERFECT time to go after that "2-way" defensive forward.

There are 2 available right now that are on the ropes with their respective ballclubs.

Sacramento would probably want to throw in Kenny Thomas or another bad contract.

Kirilenko makes a ton but is less of a headcase and less selfish.



There's a solid chance Curry will be an All-Star next year, and I've said it all along for us to make the playoffs we need another All-Star playing with him, not a Kobe-Shaq tandem, (b/c Curry will never be a 3rd All Team defender), but more of a Curry/Artest, Curry/Kirilenko type.


The tricky part is not including Lee, caz you know Sactown and Utah will probly inquire about him FIRST.

I don't think minusing Lee and adding AK or Artest is worth it. Lee does alot for us, alot more than some of us realize. He's one of the big reasons we're 1st in team rebounding.


I'd offer all of our youth except Lee: Nate, Frye, Balkman, Collins.

Take your pick from that bunch, then include Crawford and if necessary Malik or Jefferies.

I'd even offer up a 1st, this year's or next.



I think Utah MIGHT be interested in a package that includes Crawford (b/c they could use a "bigtime" scoring guard), and maybe Malik, Balkman, and this year's 1st.

Not sure if it's enough.

For Sacramento I'd offer up Nate, Q-Rich, Malik, and a 1st for Kenny & Ron.

I don't think they'd take Crawful or Jefferies...



That's my .02$

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 01-22-2007 09:55 AM]

Keep in mind we have the distinct advantage of being on the East coast -- Sac and Utah won't trade within their conference.

I think instead of figuring out who sucks, or who is inconsistent and then getting rid of them. We need to build. We need to figure out who our core is and then build around them. If Curry is our core then we figure out what our PF, PG, SG, SF would ideally look like next to him and then target guys that fit that mold. We may find that Jeffries fits on that team somewhere despite what we think he should bring. I think this is one step we continually miss in NY. We are constantly trying to find the best available person at each postion. Instead of the best available fit.

Posted by Allanfan20:

Posted by Bippity10:

I think instead of figuring out who sucks, or who is inconsistent and then getting rid of them. We need to build. We need to figure out who our core is and then build around them. If Curry is our core then we figure out what our PF, PG, SG, SF would ideally look like next to him and then target guys that fit that mold. We may find that Jeffries fits on that team somewhere despite what we think he should bring. I think this is one step we continually miss in NY. We are constantly trying to find the best available person at each postion. Instead of the best available fit.

Herb Brooks style. I personally think that we have no business building around Curry b/c he's too 1 dimensional. If you're going to build around 1 player, build around someone with a lot more versatility. Heck, if he were healthy consistently, building around Q would be a better idea (And I think it's a bad idea.)

I personally have no great solutions and would make a terrible NBA GM, but I also know there's another terrible GM who's probably worse than me, and that's the guy working for the Knicks. I just can't trust him building a team, if the team he's building is just a pile of bricks but no foundation and no cement.

well, curry is good at one thing...but he is dominant in that category...to the point where defenses need to adjust their game plan. in that case, i think it's ok to build around him. but we need to get some defensive studs in the frontcourt to make up for curry's lack of presence there.

bip is right, every player in the league CAN be part of a winning situation, you just got to find the right place and the right fit. if curry is our center, then we have to get him some jumpshooters from the perimeter. good ones. and we have to find a defensive stud at the PF spot.

First off Crawford and Jeffries are going no where soon, so lets just end that rant. Our Problem is Shotblocking and Turnovers other than that we are a pretty good team. I thin kBalkman should be starting at 3 but Isiah did alot to get Jeffries, so dont expect to see him leave the line up. We need to trade Frye (who has alot of trade value, even though not as much as last yr) for a shot blocking player i.e. Josh Smith. Trade Frye and Nate for Josh Smith and second round pick. I see no reason why the Hawks would not do this trade when they can move Frye to the center spot, the dukey at 4, and Marvin williams @ 3.

On the contrary, I think Marbury is having his best season at the point guard position

I personally would not build around Curry because his lack of shot blocking and rebounding makes him a difficult person to build around. But his offense is another story. YOu can win with him at center you just have to be very selective about the types of players that you find. The day we traded a lottery pick for Curry is the day we said he was our guy. So I expect us to build this way. Can Isiah do this? Based on his free agent pickups I'm not entirely confident. I wish he would target draft picks.

It seems like when Isiah goes in the draft he looks for the best player. When he goes for free-agents he goes for people from his area of the country, school or reclamation projects to fix.

Posted by JrZyHuStLa:

This team's biggest weaknesses are:

1) Turnovers
2) Interior Defense
3) No TRUE Point Guard

Turnovers- number one problem.

And its not Marbury not being a pure PG- its a team that for whatever reason, can't pass.

We can't make a simple entry pass. Our players make stupid passes at times- forced, careless.

Part of this is developing BBall IQ & cohension as a unit.

Honestly- if everyone on this squad had average 'good' games all the time- Frye, Crawford, Curry, Q & Marbury- your looking at a team that could win 50.

I don't know that that bunch can do it every game.