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Turning the Knicks Into a 2nd round or better team in two steps
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Solace
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1/12/2007  2:40 PM
1) Trade: Frye, Nate, Marbury for Ray Allen+
2) Sign: Chris Webber

Main pieces:
C-Curry
C-Cato
C/PF-Webber
PF-Lee
SF/SG-Q Rich
SF-Balkman
SG-R. Allen
SG/PG-Crawford
PG-Francis

Which would leave us with these leftovers:
C-James
PF-M. Rose
SF-Jeffries
PG-Collins

I would try to see, if possible, of packaging one or two of the "leftovers" and seeing if we could get a shotblocker. Etan Thomas would be a nice piece. We also need a distributing PG off the bench. Maybe Mardy Collins could be this player.

I'd feel a lot better about a more balanced team, constructed in the way I described.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
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TMS
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1/12/2007  2:49 PM
- Frye, Nate & Marbury for Ray Allen & Damien Wilkins
- Jefferies & cash considerations for Etan Thomas
- sign CWebb

this would be a team i can easily picture going into the 2nd round & maybe beyond this season:

C - Curry / Etan / Cato
PF - CWebb / Lee / Malik
SF - Q Rich / Balkman
SG - Ray / Wilkins
PG - Crawford / Mardy
IA - Francis / Turd

[Edited by - TMS on 01-12-2007 2:49 PM]
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Bonn1997
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1/12/2007  2:51 PM
Curry and C Webb as your starting interior defenders? I don't see that team even making the playoffs unless .400 gets the team in in this division.
Solace
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1/12/2007  2:52 PM
Posted by TMS:

- Frye, Nate & Marbury for Ray Allen & Damien Wilkins
- Jefferies & cash considerations for Etan Thomas
- sign CWebb

this would be a team i can easily picture going into the 2nd round & maybe beyond this season:

C - Curry / Etan / Cato
PF - CWebb / Lee / Malik
SF - Q Rich / Balkman
SG - Ray / Wilkins
PG - Crawford / Mardy
IA - Francis / Turd

Sold. I like it.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Solace
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1/12/2007  2:55 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Curry and C Webb as your starting interior defenders? I don't see that team even making the playoffs unless .400 gets the team in in this division.

I'm high on defense too, but if we're talking about Webber replacing Frye, we're replacing one bad defensive player with another... sorta. Webber's defensive woes are due to lack of mobility from the microfracture surgery, but he still stays on his man. Frye, on the other hand, is just poor defensively, has bad insticts and is slow to react. I'm not sure having Webber would hurt us. He's a good rebounder, and we'd have Etan Thomas off the bench for a defensive punch. Also, Balkman, Mardy and Q getting more minutes helps to solidify the team defense concept.

Overall, it's still not a great defensive team, but I do think it's better than what we have now.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
TMS
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1/12/2007  2:58 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Curry and C Webb as your starting interior defenders? I don't see that team even making the playoffs unless .400 gets the team in in this division.


the starting lineup defense is admittedly weak, but you make up for it in sheer scoring muscle... who's going to stop a starting 5 w/that much offensive scoring power? if you try & stop Curry, Q Rich, Ray Allen & Jamal will light u up from the perimeter... if you try & tighten down on the perimeter D, then Curry & CWebb get theirs in the paint & in the pick & roll... then you have some good defensive role players in the 2nd unit like Etan, Balkman, Wilkins, Cato & Mardy, & 1 of the game's best rebounders in D Lee.

it's not a championship winning team just yet, but it's a start... definitely can picture that team winning the Atlantic & beating the Bulls or Wizards in a 1st round series... then you take your chances in the 2nd round... if 1 of those guys goes off & has a great series, you never know what can happen... & it's not selling the future for immediate mediocrity either, since you still have a good young core still developing.
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nyk4ever
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1/12/2007  3:01 PM
While I kind of like your ideas Solace, especially Ray Allen, the window to win a championship for that team would be about 2 years. So I'm not so sure I would go through with it.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Solace
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1/12/2007  3:06 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

While I kind of like your ideas Solace, especially Ray Allen, the window to win a championship for that team would be about 2 years. So I'm not so sure I would go through with it.

I have a different view. I don't see Frye, Nate or Jeffries as major pieces ever. That may be harsh, but that's how I see them. In other words, expendable. So trading them for RayRay, Etan, and signing Webber gives us a good team now, and at the same time, in a few seasons, they'll be off the books, we'll be under the cap (getting rid of Nate and Frye will ease the future cap situation), and might be able to make a bigtime run at whoever is available at that time, along with a young core with accumulating draft picks during a few seasons with no pressure of them developing right away.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
TMS
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1/12/2007  3:06 PM
what changes in 2 years? CWebb goes, we still have D Lee... Ray & Marbury are 1 year apart in age & 1 year apart in contract length, so the cap situation is the only difference there... losing Frye is the only thing that effects the longterm future in that respect, but we at least get ourselves a tough hardnosed shotblocking presence down low in Thomas... not a star obviously, but he would fill a big need... & Nate & Wilkins are a wash imo.

& we still have a young core of Curry, D Lee, Jamal, Q Rich & Balkman to build on, same as before.
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TMS
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1/12/2007  3:08 PM
Posted by Solace:

I have a different view. I don't see Frye, Nate or Jeffries as major pieces ever. That may be harsh, but that's how I see them. In other words, expendable. So trading them for RayRay, Etan, and signing Webber gives us a good team now, and at the same time, in a few seasons, they'll be off the books, we'll be under the cap (getting rid of Nate and Frye will ease the future cap situation), and might be able to make a bigtime run at whoever is available at that time, along with a young core with accumulating draft picks during a few seasons with no pressure of them developing right away.

Ray's contract goes 1 year longer than Steph's, so it actually hurts us for a year cap wise... but we do get 1 year of Jefferies' contract off the books also... other than that, i agree w/all that.



[Edited by - TMS on 01-12-2007 3:11 PM]
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nyk4ever
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1/12/2007  3:09 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by nyk4ever:

While I kind of like your ideas Solace, especially Ray Allen, the window to win a championship for that team would be about 2 years. So I'm not so sure I would go through with it.

I have a different view. I don't see Frye, Nate or Jeffries as major pieces ever. That may be harsh, but that's how I see them. In other words, expendable. So trading them for RayRay, Etan, and signing Webber gives us a good team now, and at the same time, in a few seasons, they'll be off the books, we'll be under the cap (getting rid of Nate and Frye will ease the future cap situation), and might be able to make a bigtime run at whoever is available at that time, along with a young core with accumulating draft picks during a few seasons with no pressure of them developing right away.

That's a fair argument and one I agree with. The sooner this team can get some cap-room, the better I say, so I guess it wouldn't be too bad. The team that you assembled would certainly be in the playoffs and at least into the 2nd round, as you said. I'm still 50/50 on the trades but it's interesting to think about.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
MS
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1/12/2007  3:10 PM
Q is shooting it as good as Ray Allen and giving us good d and rebounding
nyk4ever
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1/12/2007  3:12 PM
What I don't get is this.

If Isiah EVER offered Channing Frye and Jamal Crawford for Ray Allen, I have a pretty good feeling that the Sonics would accept that trade. If you have to throw in Nate, then you throw in Nate. Adding Ray Allen to this team would do absolute WONDERS. Instead of having your PF be the guy that "spreads" the floor for Curry, you now have a elite scorer from outside in Ray Allen and a great 2man game between Ray and Curry. I don't think trading Frye, Craw, and Nate really hurts our team because RayRay does all the things they do, rolled into one. If anything it would open up roster spots for Isiah to bring in some good young talent.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
TMS
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1/12/2007  3:13 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by TMS:

- Frye, Nate & Marbury for Ray Allen & Damien Wilkins
- Jefferies & cash considerations for Etan Thomas
- sign CWebb

this would be a team i can easily picture going into the 2nd round & maybe beyond this season:

C - Curry / Etan / Cato
PF - CWebb / Lee / Malik
SF - Q Rich / Balkman
SG - Ray / Wilkins
PG - Crawford / Mardy
IA - Francis / Turd

Sold. I like it.


no G's under 6'5" would give us some good matchups to take advantage of also.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
MS
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1/12/2007  3:18 PM
I would rather do this deal and clear up some space and then move Ray Allen

Seattle Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Ray Allen
6-5 SG from Connecticut
24.8 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 3.6 apg in 40.5 minutes
Incoming
Jamal Crawford
6-5 SG from Michigan
17.2 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 4.2 apg in 36.8 minutes
Jared Jeffries
6-11 SF from Indiana
6.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 1.2 apg in 29.6 minutes
Channing Frye
6-11 PF from Arizona
10.3 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 0.6 apg in 27.1 minutes


You get rid of long term deals for Jefferies and Crawford, and can possibly move Ray Allen for something decent, or just move him to move him.

TMS
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1/12/2007  3:21 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

What I don't get is this.

If Isiah EVER offered Channing Frye and Jamal Crawford for Ray Allen, I have a pretty good feeling that the Sonics would accept that trade. If you have to throw in Nate, then you throw in Nate. Adding Ray Allen to this team would do absolute WONDERS. Instead of having your PF be the guy that "spreads" the floor for Curry, you now have a elite scorer from outside in Ray Allen and a great 2man game between Ray and Curry. I don't think trading Frye, Craw, and Nate really hurts our team because RayRay does all the things they do, rolled into one. If anything it would open up roster spots for Isiah to bring in some good young talent.

i wouldn't include Frye if they wanted Crawford & Nate... too much youth to give up for a player who's reached his prime already & is likely on the decline in another year or 2... i do the Marbury one because it's basically a huge veteran contract for a huge veteran contract type deal, & i have more faith moving forward w/Allen on the roster than Marbury anyway... Jamal & Ray in the backcourt is deficient defensively, but a powerhouse scoring tandem... then adding on the other defensive role players we would add can help balance out the roster.

hey, it's fun to play fantasy GM... but i think this is a doable plan myself.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Michael6835
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1/12/2007  3:30 PM
why do we think Webber will make a difference on this knicks team ?

Did he make on on the 76er team ?
M
TMS
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1/12/2007  3:35 PM
I don't... i think Ray Allen would make a difference on this Knicks team, & to a lesser extent, Etan Thomas... CWebb is only being signed to take Frye's role on the team.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-12-2007 3:36 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Solace
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1/12/2007  3:37 PM
Posted by TMS:

I don't... i think Ray Allen would make a difference on this Knicks team, & to a lesser extent, Etan Thomas... CWebb is only being signed to take Frye's role on the team.

Exactly what I was going to say.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Anji
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1/12/2007  4:18 PM
SMH..........
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Turning the Knicks Into a 2nd round or better team in two steps

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