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Rotation is f'ed... Last 2 games = ISIAH'S FAULT
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Elite
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12/31/2006  6:58 PM
Jeffries/Balkman on the floor at the same time???? How are we supposed to score seriously... Even Rose Jeffries together.. it just doesent work... James??? How the hell has James earned PT over Kato? who busted his ass during our WINS...........

DLEE 8 min in the first half????

Isiah what the **** are you doing????
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islesfan
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12/31/2006  7:25 PM
I agree with you but this thread is getting deleted.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
EnySpree
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12/31/2006  7:28 PM
Yeah I just noticed the F bomb in the title. Maybe Martin can just change it to screwed.

The topic itself is something that needs to be debated.
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bigbeast
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12/31/2006  7:29 PM
Malik was only in to guard Brand. He killed Frye in the opening 5 minutes. Almost got he seasons average by the end of the first quarter. Malik did a deacent job. Duped Brand into 2 offensive fouls and sent him to the bench.
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joec32033
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12/31/2006  7:30 PM
Can I start a thread to petition to keep another thread?
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Elite
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12/31/2006  7:39 PM
hey Malik can be in but not at the same time with Balkman and Jeffries
SugarRayRichardson
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12/31/2006  7:39 PM
3-1 with Curry, Lee, frye, Jcraw and Marbury starting because of suspensions but Isiah hates success so the minute he can bench Lee he does.
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
Elite
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12/31/2006  8:02 PM
oh yeah how come announcers never comment on a coaches rotations and lineups?? its like an unwritten rule they are not allowed to criticise the coachs rotation????
joec32033
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12/31/2006  8:26 PM
Posted by Elite:

oh yeah how come announcers never comment on a coaches rotations and lineups?? its like an unwritten rule they are not allowed to criticise the coachs rotation????

I'm just wondering why Isiah Thomas seems to be having the same issue with this the other guy had.
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SlimPack
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12/31/2006  9:09 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by Elite:

oh yeah how come announcers never comment on a coaches rotations and lineups?? its like an unwritten rule they are not allowed to criticise the coachs rotation????

I'm just wondering why Isiah Thomas seems to be having the same issue with this the other guy had.

Yeah i was just thinking the same thing . but I think isiah can do a much better job.
BigC
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12/31/2006  9:15 PM
There was a point I think Isiah had Balkman, Rose, and Jeffries on the court together. lol
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crzymdups
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12/31/2006  9:50 PM
agree with this thread. Isiah is digging his own grave with his stupidity.
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joec32033
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12/31/2006  10:03 PM
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by Elite:

oh yeah how come announcers never comment on a coaches rotations and lineups?? its like an unwritten rule they are not allowed to criticise the coachs rotation????

I'm just wondering why Isiah Thomas seems to be having the same issue with this the other guy had.

Yeah i was just thinking the same thing . but I think isiah can do a much better job.

IMO, the answer is that Isiah overestimated the team he built and convinced Dolan that all it needed was a coach like Brown. But Brown got a read on this team early, and knew moves had to be made and it would be a process. Problem is after spending all that cash, Isiah didn't want to tell Dolan he was wrong.

In the process, he couldn't make any moves that showed he was sacrificing the present for the future(hence moves for Francis-who was wanted by Brown to make it so much easier to just get Stephon out of NY-and Jalen-who was acquired before Francis as a guy who could initiate the offense instead of Steph, who couldn't do it.) No matter what motives, both guys may have signed off on both moves, but I think Larry wanted to actually build while Isiah needed to win now because he sold Dolan that this team was good.

Once the real power struggle started, Isiah got the nod because #1-he believed the team was good as is right now, and wouldn't require wholesale changes. #2-Larry is a whiny little man has a reputation of being fickle with players. You can't have a guy like that running your organization.

Now that Isiah is coaching he is seeing ALL the problems Larry did. He even got on Steph's bad side less than a month into the season. I only need to look at him on the bench. He looks like a dead man walking. He looks like he is trying to figure something out that will work-anything that will work-but he is trying anything and everything Larry Brown wouldn't/didn't because if he has to be like Larry and follow Larry's plan, he will be exposed for what he did do here.

Now I know it sounds a little out there and conspiracy theory-ish, but alot of the facts are here:

1-Isiah is on eggshells with Steoh since the begining of the season. He has to justify siding with him over Larry.

2-Larry had the exact same rotation(10-11-12 guys deep some games)problems.

3-Larry couldn't get these guys to play defense either.

4-Isiah's "quick" offense-which was effectivley what Larry wanted the Knicks to do on offense with a catchy name. Move the
ball, take the open shot.

5-Isiah is using-or at least origionally-wanted to use the defense to key the fast offense. just like the other guy.

6-All the problems that everyone said would be fixed-the lineups, Malik not playing, Lee getting all this time-were supposed to be solved. Their not. Same "mistakes" Larry made.

7-Now we have a GM who made-at the very least questionable-moves on projects. But instead of having a coach who cares only about winning regardless of how guys got there, you have a coach who almost has to justify his moves as a GM and now has the ability to do that unchecked.

Look I don't want to sound like I am bringing this all up again to justify anything Larry did. He acted like a POS. But all these items that came up with Larry are still here. The only difference is instead of losing by 20 with the team extending the lead throughout the game, we are down by the end of the first quarter and then come back to make it look respectable at the end.

I'm sure some are going to take this as Isiah bashing and try to grill me, but it isn't. It is a review of all the problems that are still present.
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BasketballJones
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1/1/2007  12:10 AM
Posted by Elite:

Jeffries/Balkman on the floor at the same time???? How are we supposed to score seriously... Even Rose Jeffries together.. it just doesent work... James??? How the hell has James earned PT over Kato? who busted his ass during our WINS...........

DLEE 8 min in the first half????

Isiah what the **** are you doing????

Isiah's fault !?! WTF? Man, where have you been? The blame for this debacle rests squarely on the shoulders of one evil man - Larry Brown.
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arkrud
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1/1/2007  1:30 AM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by Elite:

oh yeah how come announcers never comment on a coaches rotations and lineups?? its like an unwritten rule they are not allowed to criticise the coachs rotation????

I'm just wondering why Isiah Thomas seems to be having the same issue with this the other guy had.

Yeah i was just thinking the same thing . but I think isiah can do a much better job.

IMO, the answer is that Isiah overestimated the team he built and convinced Dolan that all it needed was a coach like Brown. But Brown got a read on this team early, and knew moves had to be made and it would be a process. Problem is after spending all that cash, Isiah didn't want to tell Dolan he was wrong.

In the process, he couldn't make any moves that showed he was sacrificing the present for the future(hence moves for Francis-who was wanted by Brown to make it so much easier to just get Stephon out of NY-and Jalen-who was acquired before Francis as a guy who could initiate the offense instead of Steph, who couldn't do it.) No matter what motives, both guys may have signed off on both moves, but I think Larry wanted to actually build while Isiah needed to win now because he sold Dolan that this team was good.

Once the real power struggle started, Isiah got the nod because #1-he believed the team was good as is right now, and wouldn't require wholesale changes. #2-Larry is a whiny little man has a reputation of being fickle with players. You can't have a guy like that running your organization.

Now that Isiah is coaching he is seeing ALL the problems Larry did. He even got on Steph's bad side less than a month into the season. I only need to look at him on the bench. He looks like a dead man walking. He looks like he is trying to figure something out that will work-anything that will work-but he is trying anything and everything Larry Brown wouldn't/didn't because if he has to be like Larry and follow Larry's plan, he will be exposed for what he did do here.

Now I know it sounds a little out there and conspiracy theory-ish, but alot of the facts are here:

1-Isiah is on eggshells with Steoh since the begining of the season. He has to justify siding with him over Larry.

2-Larry had the exact same rotation(10-11-12 guys deep some games)problems.

3-Larry couldn't get these guys to play defense either.

4-Isiah's "quick" offense-which was effectivley what Larry wanted the Knicks to do on offense with a catchy name. Move the
ball, take the open shot.

5-Isiah is using-or at least origionally-wanted to use the defense to key the fast offense. just like the other guy.

6-All the problems that everyone said would be fixed-the lineups, Malik not playing, Lee getting all this time-were supposed to be solved. Their not. Same "mistakes" Larry made.

7-Now we have a GM who made-at the very least questionable-moves on projects. But instead of having a coach who cares only about winning regardless of how guys got there, you have a coach who almost has to justify his moves as a GM and now has the ability to do that unchecked.

Look I don't want to sound like I am bringing this all up again to justify anything Larry did. He acted like a POS. But all these items that came up with Larry are still here. The only difference is instead of losing by 20 with the team extending the lead throughout the game, we are down by the end of the first quarter and then come back to make it look respectable at the end.

I'm sure some are going to take this as Isiah bashing and try to grill me, but it isn't. It is a review of all the problems that are still present.

good overview of the problems.
But solution is clear - fire IT and all in the past.
Of course the team will still suck but the way for the common sense will be cleared.
This will not be a given that we will have no new mess-makers on hand but at leat it will be some hope for the best...
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Elite
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1/1/2007  11:30 AM
Posted by BigC:

There was a point I think Isiah had Balkman, Rose, and Jeffries on the court together. lol

YUP and i think in the phoenix game too... he should be fired for allowing that to go down lol
islesfan
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1/1/2007  11:41 AM
“I was just searching, pushing every button I could push tonight,” Thomas said. “And I finally got a group out there that had some semblance of working together and I just tried to stick with it.”

Gee, doesn't that sound like something that another coach was doing last year?

When Larry does it, he's the devil.

When Isiah does it, that's just good coaching.

At least that's what the hypocrites on this board will tell you.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Ray15
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1/1/2007  1:05 PM
Completely agree with this thread.

I would've fired Isiah right after the game and given these reasons:

1) Pulling our best/most consistent player, David Lee, from the starting unit
2) Playing David Lee 8 mins in the first half when we clearly came out flat. He's the one guy who's going to work as hard as he can for every second he's on the court. If the rationale is you want Rose to guard Brand (I still think we should've at least tried Lee and see how he did), then Jefferies shouldn't play in this game.
3) Cato did everything possible to beat out Jerome James for mins and James still somehow gets them. He is the worst player I've seen get on the court in meaningful mins in a long long time. The guy is a joke -- who does he think he is posting up and demanding the ball every time down the floor? Or how about grabbing a rebound and dribbling it up the court Balkman style? When you want height on the floor, why would you ever play James and Curry together -- Cato at least showed he's going to be a rock on the defensive end and make things happen -- that would actually complement Curry quite nicely.
4) How is Balkman still allowed to chuck up threes? He is dreadful but rather than tell him to do what he's good at, Isiah is too worried about making friends with all his players so he keeps his mouth shut.

Fire Isiah -- he's too worried about making all his awful signings look good and about making friends with his players.

I brought these things up after our great win in Detroit and got killed by some on this board. It's not about hating, it's about doing what's best for the team and not getting blinded by wins and losses. Holfresh, where are you in this thread?
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holfresh
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1/1/2007  2:33 PM

I'm here Ray, true, I do agree some of Isiah's lineup had me scratching my head as well...The entire team came out flat and need to be benched..Not sure if it was New Yr's eve or what...Cato should get minutes ahead of Big Turd...But I didn't really see the Knicks being in the game against PHX where anything would have mattered...They were all flat against the Clippers...I guess you can blame the coach for that..

I doubt Isiah is trying to validate his signings...I think it's more important for him to win games...This team just seems like to needs it back against the wall to play well...

I think we saw some good things the last month...Q would have made a huge difference if he was healthy...I won't panic yet...I ahve always maintained that it won't be until February until we know what we have...

holfresh
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1/1/2007  2:42 PM

Joe-Larry never tried or was a advocate for a fast paced or up tempo offense...NEVER...What Isiah is doing this year is completely different to Larry...Larry always wanted to slow it down running a play each time down court...

Rotation is f'ed... Last 2 games = ISIAH'S FAULT

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