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The difference between this year and last year.
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BigC
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12/27/2006  11:15 PM
I never felt that this team couldn't make a comeback. This year the game is not over until the final seconds in a game.
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Bippity10
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12/28/2006  7:41 AM
That's because this year they are actually trying, as opposed to last year where they quit.
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Silverfuel
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12/28/2006  7:44 AM
the differences are huge. for starters, we are playing David Lee in crunch time instead of Malik Rose. That makes a huge difference.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Bippity10
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12/28/2006  8:15 AM
David Lee is also a second year player and better than he was last year. The biggest difference in this team is not who we are playing and when. The difference in this team is simple. Last year they mailed it in and used the coach as an excuse. Early this year they used the fans as an excuse. Now they are doing what Bip has asked them to do for two years. Stop worrying about who's being mean to you and just worry about winning games. Focus.

Now the key to this team at this moment is to sustain. We have been here before. We have had a great stretch of games in the past and wasted it by getting involved with the excuses and sideshow again. Now is the time to forget the sideshow and sustain the defensive effort we have, that we have refused to sustain in the past. In the past we gave no defensive effort. Now we play d for 48 minutes. Who's fault was the not playing defense? The fans? The players?

I have said many times in the past that this team is it's own worst enemy. Every report about every player on the roster is true. They have immense talent but have been unable to focus upon what is important on the court. Unable to focus upon doing the things that you need to do in order to win games. To focused on excuses and not focused upon winning. For the past 5 games we have had a singular focus. It's time to sustain.

If we go 0-5 on this road trip, make no excuses and play our arses off it will benefit us greatly in the future. If we choose to make excuses and talk about how hard these trips are and say that it's hard to win, blah, blah, blah you will see the same signs of complacency sneak back up when they get home. Its' time to set a standard of performance and effort and stick to it.
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Silverfuel
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12/28/2006  8:58 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

Last year they mailed it in and used the coach as an excuse. Early this year they used the fans as an excuse.
Thats BS. They went on a 6 game winning streak in Jan 2006. Then Marbury went down and Lee went to the bench. That was the difference. Coach as an excuse? Did you know there were close 40 different starting lineups? You want to talk about the difference between the two years, at least be consistent. They weren't blaming anything on the fans this year. thats just you misreading it.

I would wait till the end of the season before comparing the two. I had decided to give this team until January and thats what I plan on doing but its best to wait until the end of the season.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
franco12
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12/28/2006  9:11 AM
I think the difference is this team is playing like a team. We're finally starting to see this motley assortment of talented but flawed players come together and gel.

Chemistry is developing.

Everyone is pretty much on the same page.

I hate to say it, but I think you've got to give credit to Isiah Thomas as coach. I think he's been a dubious GM at best, but as a coach, he's done a great job.

He's gotten guys to hustle.

He's gotten Curry to play more than 26mins a game.

He's gotten Marbury to play hard.

In terms of in game strategy- I think Isiah's excelled as well as- just look at Lee's tip in with .1 on the clock- a play he drew up on the spot.
Bippity10
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12/28/2006  9:29 AM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by Bippity10:

Last year they mailed it in and used the coach as an excuse. Early this year they used the fans as an excuse.
Thats BS. They went on a 6 game winning streak in Jan 2006. Then Marbury went down and Lee went to the bench. That was the difference. Coach as an excuse? Did you know there were close 40 different starting lineups? You want to talk about the difference between the two years, at least be consistent. They weren't blaming anything on the fans this year. thats just you misreading it.

I would wait till the end of the season before comparing the two. I had decided to give this team until January and thats what I plan on doing but its best to wait until the end of the season.

Okay so they didn't blame the coach, maybe they just blamed the 40 different lineups.

I'm with you that shiot can be tough and really contributed to a tough season and a poor record. But it should not have contributed to quitting. Which it did.
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technomaster
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12/28/2006  9:39 AM
Part of it may be that the Knick players have stopped blaming everything around them and have been forced to look into the mirror and be held accountable for their play.

This year we've had our fair share of missed games due to injury and what not (suspensions). We've made tweaks to our starting lineup. Maybe not 40 different changes(yet), but...

Off the top of my head, we've had at least 5 different starting lineups, probably more. We've had Francis, Frye, Q-Rich, & Jeffries in and out of the lineup. Crawford and Lee have both started for stretches. Balkman has been in and out of the rotation for quality minutes, same goes for Robinson & Malik. Marbury has been arguably more lost than last season.

While it appears Isiah is doing a solid job w/ this bunch, I think the Knicks could have saved a lot of money by sticking w/ Brown. Maybe he could have re-connected w/ his players after a learning year about closing out games and playing with effort whenever they're on the floor, regardless of matchups.

Maybe Isiah's pushing the right buttons now, maybe he's not. It's tough to say.

Right now, the Knicks are on a roll. We won the 6 in a row last year, but what we learned as a team didn't stick. Instead, the players started fueding w/ the coach when they hit adversity. Maybe this year they'll do better as a result of IT piloting the ship, or maybe they'll do better as a result of experience.
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NYKBocker
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12/28/2006  9:47 AM
Posted by franco12:

I think the difference is this team is playing like a team. We're finally starting to see this motley assortment of talented but flawed players come together and gel.

Chemistry is developing.

Everyone is pretty much on the same page.

I hate to say it, but I think you've got to give credit to Isiah Thomas as coach. I think he's been a dubious GM at best, but as a coach, he's done a great job.

He's gotten guys to hustle.

He's gotten Curry to play more than 26mins a game.

He's gotten Marbury to play hard.

In terms of in game strategy- I think Isiah's excelled as well as- just look at Lee's tip in with .1 on the clock- a play he drew up on the spot.

Here lies the question about Zeke. If he was such a bad GM, why is the team oozing with potential and seems to be in most of the games. You gotta have the horses and Zeke has given us that. Sure he has made some bad moves and changed his direction once or twice but you can't argue what you see right now.

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misterearl
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12/28/2006  10:11 AM
technomaster - who holds the players accountable for their play by controlling their most valued commodity.. minutes?
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Bippity10
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12/28/2006  10:29 AM
Posted by misterearl:

technomaster - who holds the players accountable for their play by controlling their most valued commodity.. minutes?

Isiah does. Why? Because he now has leverage. Leverage that other coaches under his reign were not allowed.
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Bonn1997
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12/28/2006  10:32 AM
Isiah's coaching better than the hall-of-famer Larry did.
Bippity10
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12/28/2006  10:40 AM
Yes he is. He's also coaching better than Don Chaney and Herb and Lenny Wilkens. What is your point Bonn? Are you still stuck in this mentality that everyone loves LB and hates Isiah. Try that immature argument with someone else, stop dragging me into it.

But the truth is truth. You posted with me at MSG and you know I have been saying the same thing for four coaches now. Our coaches don't have leverage. Our coach and GM have been at odds for years. and the reason our coaches don't coach games the way they are meant to be coached because they are coaching to preserve their jobs. They aren't coaching to win, they are coaching to avoid being scapegoated. They are coaching to try to expose the roster so that when the inevitable firing comes they hope it will be the GM.

Now the situation is different. Now we have a GM/coach on teh same page. We don't have two guys trying to udnermine the other. Isiah is just coaching basketball. This is something our past coaches have not been able to do. This is a theme for us and the reason why JVG left and 5 others have ben fired. It was a culture of scapegoating and now it's not. Does this sound familiar? It better be because you've read this stuff from me for years. I'm not an idiot. I have said this is the single most important change that this organization can make.
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Bonn1997
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12/28/2006  10:41 AM
Yes he is. He's also coaching better than Don Chaney and Herb and Lenny Wilkens. What is your point Bonn? Are you still stuck in this mentality that everyone loves LB and hates Isiah. Try that immature argument with someone else, stop dragging me into it.
I wasn't even replying to you. I would have quoted you if I were. You just happened to be the last person who responded in the thread.
Bippity10
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12/28/2006  10:51 AM
Okay, just checking. I had to deal with that a lot last year with people misquoting me and saying I loved some and disliked others. and it became very annoying.
I just hope that people will like me
buddapaw
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12/28/2006  10:57 AM
The players are playing for their coach, with one exception STEVE FRANCIS his body language said it all. Also NO DRAMA or HEADLINES just frickin basketball
"Low Percentage Shots r US, these are our Knicks" "NY KNICKS the cure for basketball fanatic"
franco12
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12/28/2006  11:00 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Yes he is. He's also coaching better than Don Chaney and Herb and Lenny Wilkens. What is your point Bonn? Are you still stuck in this mentality that everyone loves LB and hates Isiah. Try that immature argument with someone else, stop dragging me into it.
I wasn't even replying to you. I would have quoted you if I were. You just happened to be the last person who responded in the thread.

I don't know but I see the biggest difference between last year and this is coaching.
technomaster
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12/28/2006  11:02 AM
Misterearl,

I think you want to hear this answer: The coach.
But beyond that, the GM and the team owner.

I get the impression that Brown and the GM/Owner weren't on the same page about how to work with the team's personalities and how to impress upon the young players a solid work ethic.

Brown used the tried and true "veteran leadership" method (playing the vets over the young guys). He instituted rigid play calling to create a framework for decision making on the court. Probably the idea was that at least in the short term, the players would have to think through plays. A painful process, but ultimately, he hoped the players would take it in as second nature then build up from there.

The long term goal was to teach how to play "the right way". I'm guessing that with so many young guys, he felt it was necessary to teach them this way.

As we know, it didn't work... Marbury was a big problem. He imported Francis probably thinking, "Francis is a veteran all-nba guy--- he knows how to play the right way." Brown then realized that Francis was more or less the same player as Marb's. Both of them tend to bail out of the structure and freelance using their awesome 1-on-5 skills.

With Brown gone and IT installed as coach, Marbury has no more excuses. Maybe after having like 11 coaches in 10 years (and a talk from Magic Johnson), he's finally starting to understand that maybe the previous coaches maybe weren't all wrong. :)

It wasn't all Brown's fault that he failed in his 1 year. But with so many young players, his veteran leadership feuding w/ him openly, and several players hampered w/ injuries throughout the year, his words of wisdom were lost on the team.

I think Crawford clearly is a better player after a year of Brown-- While he's still a streaky chucker, he makes better decisions on the court and gets his teammates involved in the action. It's also possible that IT is preaching the same things as Brown... only now, they're starting to get it.
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
TMS
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12/28/2006  11:03 AM
biggest difference between this year & last year IMO:

last year these players didn't seem like they were having fun playing basketball (except for that 1 stretch where they won 5 straight & went on that little roll)

this year, they look like they really enjoy playing w/each other & they actively root for each other out on the court... alot less sulking, & that all happened after Marbury stopped feeling sorry for himself & started playing basketball... let's hope that continues & isn't just a short stretch like last season.
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BlueSeats
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12/28/2006  11:12 AM
Posted by technomaster:

Part of it may be that the Knick players have stopped blaming everything around them and have been forced to look into the mirror and be held accountable for their play.


Yep, and largely by the fans.
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