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Evident Progress?
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oohah
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12/20/2006  10:48 PM
I think the Knicks have made evident progress.

Last year at the 28 game mark the Knicks were 7-21. This year they are 11-17. The Knicks have won over 50% more games over the same period of time.

Is it good? No.

But are we inching toward respectability? I think so.

Isiah has had to deal with all of the same issues LB did, some worse. Injuries, attitudes, slumps. We also played our toughest month at the start of the season.. The team has looked awful at times. But somehow they have won 4 more games to the same point.

The reason I pick the 28 game mark is because that is when the "Streak" began last year and was supposed to mark the beginning of the "LB effect" of improvement after being awful. That was when the "Great LB Debate" blew wide open.

I think they probably won't have a 6 game winning streak this season, but they might. I am more confident they won't have any 13 game losing streaks or any other double-digit losing streaks either.

I'm not too excited, but I can see something happening. Baby Steps.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
AUTOADVERT
Michael6835
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12/20/2006  10:52 PM
i too see baby steps in the right direction, only thing different between IT and lb is no one was calling for his head. He got the benefit of the doubt. IT farts and their is a headline, i am really cheering for him and the team to do well. It seems they like playing for him. He just needs to put aside the players egos and make the tough decision to bench the used to be big name players "franchise" and play the young guys balkman and lee more minutes. Balkman and Lee are everything we need on the court.

also got to give props to my man Kato, he is showing he deserves to play ahead of Jerome James. He is a force on defense and actively pursues the rebounds.

[Edited by - Michael6835 on 12-20-2006 10:54 PM]
M
BlueSeats
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12/20/2006  10:53 PM
Well if a one year ultimatum to improve can ever be considered a good deal, one that followed such a season as last year has to be considered as good of one as possible.

This is what is known as a very low set bar.
islesfan
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12/20/2006  10:53 PM
One of the worst seasons in their history is a great benchmark to use as a basis for comparison if you're looking for "evident progress".

The 28 game mark is being picked because the Knicks just won 2 straight last second wins.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
holfresh
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12/20/2006  10:54 PM

Can I please get some love for Marbs' defense in the end and the heads up play to call a time out before the clock expired?
Michael6835
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12/20/2006  10:55 PM
Knew it was only time before the pessimists came out with their gloomy view of everything. Never fails.
M
Swishfm3
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12/20/2006  10:55 PM
Posted by islesfan:

One of the worst seasons in their history is a great benchmark to use as a basis for comparison if you're looking for "evident progress".

The 28 game mark is being picked because the Knicks just won 2 straight last second wins.

Knicks are going to beat the Bulls and Pistons...
oohah
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12/20/2006  10:56 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

Well if a one year ultimatum to improve can ever be considered a good deal, one that followed such a season as last year has to be considered as good of one as possible.

This is what is known as a very low set bar.

As important as the wins is the building of cohesion. The Knicks are showing much more of that don't you think?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Michael6835
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12/20/2006  10:57 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Can I please get some love for Marbs' defense in the end and the heads up play to call a time out before the clock expired?


hells yeah, balkman came is to guard the white dude who was scoring all the jumpers (sorry i cant remembr his name) Marbury waived him off. I like that attitude, thats what he is supposed to do.

Also love for Frye, he blew it on defense then redeemed himself with a tough shot.
M
holfresh
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12/20/2006  10:57 PM
Posted by islesfan:

One of the worst seasons in their history is a great benchmark to use as a basis for comparison if you're looking for "evident progress".

The 28 game mark is being picked because the Knicks just won 2 straight last second wins.

OK, how about the last 20 games for progress...Knicks are 9-11...Anything?
oohah
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12/20/2006  10:58 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Can I please get some love for Marbs' defense in the end and the heads up play to call a time out before the clock expired?






oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
nyk4ever
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12/20/2006  10:59 PM
Ugh. I don't want to be the guy that rains on the parade but I also don't want to be labeled as someone that doesn't post after victories because tonights game was awesome and I want this team to win every game!

I honestly just don't see the "evident progress" though. The Bobcats are a bad team who were missing 2 of their better players in Brevin Knight and Sean May, so us using the excuse that we were without some players doesn't cut it for me. Sure the team has more wins this year compared to last year but comparing anything to last year is trivial because we all know it was 100X worse then it could have been. I still think its horrible that we were down 19 at one point tonight AGAIN and to a bad team at HOME. That is not a good sign and while we did win the game, we also benefited from the Bobcats array of poor play, including plays drawn up for Matt Carrol, which is baffling.

There were some positives like Frye having a great shooting game, Lee's outstanding play, as well as Curry's but I feel this is a team that should feast on the Bobcats big men (sans Okafor) We got the usual Crawford good game every 5-7 games. Marbury was pretty good, kind of a non factor. I don't know, I just don't see the "evident" progress that Oohah sees. If this team had a legit PG and SG, I might be singing a different tune.

Again, I don't want to throw cold water on all of this and ruin everyones fun, I'm just responding to the topic how I feel but if I don't respond, I risk being labeled as someone who doesn't show up after wins and thats not how I want it to be! Anytime the Knicks win it's a great feeling but to me, I gotta put this win in perspective.

Just my 2cents. Flame away on me.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Michael6835
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12/20/2006  10:59 PM
There is progress, clyde said it best, you have to be good to keep spotting teams 20pt leads and coming back. IT just needs to tinker with the lineup to start the game with the energy.
M
islesfan
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12/20/2006  11:00 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by islesfan:

One of the worst seasons in their history is a great benchmark to use as a basis for comparison if you're looking for "evident progress".

The 28 game mark is being picked because the Knicks just won 2 straight last second wins.

OK, how about the last 20 games for progress...Knicks are 9-11...Anything?


How about this entire season? That's what Dolan is using, right?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TheGame
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12/20/2006  11:00 PM
Posted by oohah:

I think the Knicks have made evident progress.

Last year at the 28 game mark the Knicks were 7-21. This year they are 11-17. The Knicks have won over 50% more games over the same period of time.

Is it good? No.

But are we inching toward respectability? I think so.

Isiah has had to deal with all of the same issues LB did, some worse. Injuries, attitudes, slumps. We also played our toughest month at the start of the season.. The team has looked awful at times. But somehow they have won 4 more games to the same point.

The reason I pick the 28 game mark is because that is when the "Streak" began last year and was supposed to mark the beginning of the "LB effect" of improvement after being awful. That was when the "Great LB Debate" blew wide open.

I think they probably won't have a 6 game winning streak this season, but they might. I am more confident they won't have any 13 game losing streaks or any other double-digit losing streaks either.

I'm not too excited, but I can see something happening. Baby Steps.

oohah

This team just needs experience and more heady play. The talent is here. The team is starting to play together and they are starting to understand what they want to accomplish on offense. The team defense is still terrible, but they showed tonight that they can get stops when focused. There is no question this team is better than last year, but I still would like to see a little more improvement before I would say the Knicks have substantially improved.
Trust the Process
BlueSeats
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12/20/2006  11:01 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by BlueSeats:

Well if a one year ultimatum to improve can ever be considered a good deal, one that followed such a season as last year has to be considered as good of one as possible.

This is what is known as a very low set bar.

As important as the wins is the building of cohesion. The Knicks are showing much more of that don't you think?


This is what is known as a very low set bar.
martin
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12/20/2006  11:02 PM
Posted by oohah:

I think the Knicks have made evident progress.

Last year at the 28 game mark the Knicks were 7-21. This year they are 11-17. The Knicks have won over 50% more games over the same period of time.

Is it good? No.

But are we inching toward respectability? I think so.

Isiah has had to deal with all of the same issues LB did, some worse. Injuries, attitudes, slumps. We also played our toughest month at the start of the season.. The team has looked awful at times. But somehow they have won 4 more games to the same point.

The reason I pick the 28 game mark is because that is when the "Streak" began last year and was supposed to mark the beginning of the "LB effect" of improvement after being awful. That was when the "Great LB Debate" blew wide open.

I think they probably won't have a 6 game winning streak this season, but they might. I am more confident they won't have any 13 game losing streaks or any other double-digit losing streaks either.

I'm not too excited, but I can see something happening. Baby Steps.

oohah

could be just a hot streak: we must wait until the end of the season to determine progress. Why start a thread like this anyway?
Posted by oohah:
what constitutes a hot period? 1 month? 2? 3? 6?

A better way for me to answer is to define progress. To me progress has be sustained for more than a season and it cannot be proclaimed after a few good weeks. You really have to become a better player and stay a better player, not just do it for a few weeks. Just take a look at JC's 2005-2006 game log. Or any of the years before that. He has 3-5 pretty strong weeks in a row every year. Players get hot!

oohah

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oohah
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12/20/2006  11:03 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by oohah:
Posted by BlueSeats:

Well if a one year ultimatum to improve can ever be considered a good deal, one that followed such a season as last year has to be considered as good of one as possible.

This is what is known as a very low set bar.

As important as the wins is the building of cohesion. The Knicks are showing much more of that don't you think?


This is what is known as a very low set bar.

Low bar and all, is it progress?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Rich
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12/20/2006  11:04 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by oohah:
Posted by BlueSeats:

Well if a one year ultimatum to improve can ever be considered a good deal, one that followed such a season as last year has to be considered as good of one as possible.

This is what is known as a very low set bar.

As important as the wins is the building of cohesion. The Knicks are showing much more of that don't you think?


This is what is known as a very low set bar.

Low bar and all, is it progress?

oohah

It's too soon to tell.
Michael6835
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12/20/2006  11:05 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Ugh. I don't want to be the guy that rains on the parade but I also don't want to be labeled as someone that doesn't post after victories because tonights game was awesome and I want this team to win every game!

I honestly just don't see the "evident progress" though. The Bobcats are a bad team who were missing 2 of their better players in Brevin Knight and Sean May, so us using the excuse that we were without some players doesn't cut it for me. Sure the team has more wins this year compared to last year but comparing anything to last year is trivial because we all know it was 100X worse then it could have been. I still think its horrible that we were down 19 at one point tonight AGAIN and to a bad team at HOME. That is not a good sign and while we did win the game, we also benefited from the Bobcats array of poor play, including plays drawn up for Matt Carrol, which is baffling.

There were some positives like Frye having a great shooting game, Lee's outstanding play, as well as Curry's but I feel this is a team that should feast on the Bobcats big men (sans Okafor) We got the usual Crawford good game every 5-7 games. Marbury was pretty good, kind of a non factor. I don't know, I just don't see the "evident" progress that Oohah sees. If this team had a legit PG and SG, I might be singing a different tune.

Again, I don't want to throw cold water on all of this and ruin everyones fun, I'm just responding to the topic how I feel but if I don't respond, I risk being labeled as someone who doesn't show up after wins and thats not how I want it to be! Anytime the Knicks win it's a great feeling but to me, I gotta put this win in perspective.

Just my 2cents. Flame away on me.


ok here is my flame,
Why do you make an excuse for opponents, we won the game that should be the bottom line. We could have lost, but we grinded it out and somehow found a way to win. Good teams find a way to win, I am not saying we are a good team yet, I am just pointing out that point. Also we were missing half of our squad, and if you want to compare victories, the game against the jazz we beat at home at the buzzer; they had the 2nd best record in the league. A win is a win, in the end its like fish mike always says, its about ws and ls. Tonight we got another W, thats all that matters to me.

If we were as good as the spurs or the suns and barely beat the bobcats, then your point would make sense. They are great teams and barely winning against bad teams would be a red flag. But we are not the spurs or the suns, we are the knicks and we are a bad team playing another bad team. The only difference is we are starting to move in the right direction. I'm rambling but u get the point.
M
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