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How are Knick fans affraid of thuggery?
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Killa4luv
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12/18/2006  11:53 AM
When we had Pat, Oak, Ant Nason, Xavier McDaniels, Starks, ets, this team was built on intimidation, physical intimidation.
We manhandled our opposition. HARD fouls, were a way of life. Don't come in trying to dunk unless your sure you can do it. Point blank, our team was thugged out, you cannot deny it. How is it that 2 hard fouls is drawing all of this criticism from Knicks fans who cheered this same thing 10-12 years ago? I mean Mardy's foul wasn't anything really crazy, it was a hard foul, a flagrant, but he didn't do anything really crazy or attempt to injure him.

Twist and contort away.
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K22
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12/18/2006  11:55 AM
I miss Thugball. I miss when the NBA wasn't so soft and when fouls like this one, the guy who got fouled just brushed himself off and went to the line.

But that was then and this is now. Not the same Knicks, not the same NBA.

And, when it comes down to it, people would be bashing us exponentially less if we were winning.
-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
Nalod
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12/18/2006  12:03 PM
Rules are different now.

The game went away from thuggery when the games were 75-69 and the offense went stagnent.

Bottom line the game needed to evolve and players were getting hurt.

QUite frankly, I found the thuggery a bit of a bore after a few years and it masked our deficient roster.

Oak was the real deal tough guy. X-man used it to prolong his career.

Pat was a warrior, but no thug.

Starks and Mason were inconsistant idiots who had some nice moments but were too volitile to win consistantly.

Mardys foul was no big deal, but Smith retaliated, which was no big deal, but when Nate got involved, and Carmello round housed, it could have gotten real ugly.

I don't want to be in the way of a punch in the stands if one of these giants misses.

You want your daughters face hit by a player whom might be 260 lbs and say 6-8? A punch like that by a pro athlete could kill someone!

Back then, you took your asswhooping like a man too! Those knick teams rarely got down that bad. They could rarely hold a lead, but thats a different story.

You play hard with intimidation thru the whole game. The knicks are a soft team.

And Nate is an idiot.
djsunyc
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12/18/2006  12:07 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

When we had Pat, Oak, Ant Nason, Xavier McDaniels, Starks, ets, this team was built on intimidation, physical intimidation.
We manhandled our opposition. HARD fouls, were a way of life. Don't come in trying to dunk unless your sure you can do it. Point blank, our team was thugged out, you cannot deny it. How is it that 2 hard fouls is drawing all of this criticism from Knicks fans who cheered this same thing 10-12 years ago? I mean Mardy's foul wasn't anything really crazy, it was a hard foul, a flagrant, but he didn't do anything really crazy or attempt to injure him.

Twist and contort away.

it wasn't the same thing. those fouls occurred throughout the entire game. these last 2 occurred after two blowouts in the final minutes. totally different context.
oohah
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12/18/2006  12:09 PM
it wasn't the same thing. those fouls occurred throughout the entire game. these last 2 occurred after two blowouts in the final minutes. totally different context.

I fail to see the moral difference.

oohah


Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
fishmike
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12/18/2006  12:10 PM
Ki the big difference is the Knicks of old owned the paint. Everyone in the NBA knew if you went to the hoop to expect a hard foul.

Also those Knick teams played harder on D than any other team in the league. Remember the Pizza give away? Anytime a Knick opponent was held to less than 85 you could turn in your ticket for a free slice? I think it was Uno, but I forget. I do remember chanting P-ZZA P-ZZA a couple times. That lasted about 3 games.

How is establishing a tough physical defensive presence that at times went too far anything at all like telling your players to take a cheap shot because your getting embarrased?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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12/18/2006  12:11 PM
Posted by oohah:
it wasn't the same thing. those fouls occurred throughout the entire game. these last 2 occurred after two blowouts in the final minutes. totally different context.

I fail to see the moral difference.

oohah

there is no moral difference. thuggery is thuggery.

it's just a different situation now than it was 10 years ago (like nalod said). i think we can agree on that.
Elite
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12/18/2006  12:13 PM
Killah im wit you i want to see more of this but the thing is i want to see it when the game actually matters. Give ahrd fouls ALL the time.. Not jus to send a message at the end of the game.. Play physical.. intimidate.. YES... but dont get down by 19 leaving the lane wide open all game and then decide you want to send in a rookie who never plays to deliver a "message"
oohah
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12/18/2006  12:13 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by oohah:
it wasn't the same thing. those fouls occurred throughout the entire game. these last 2 occurred after two blowouts in the final minutes. totally different context.

I fail to see the moral difference.

oohah

there is no moral difference. thuggery is thuggery.

it's just a different situation now than it was 10 years ago (like nalod said). i think we can agree on that.

I do agree. I just don't think it is a big deal. Riley ordered hits all the time. (PJ Brown in the playoffs.)

I didn't like the murder-ball style either, Bad-Boys or Knicks. But the NBA may have gone too far the other way by just a tad.

As far as fights spilling into the crowd, why not just put ropes around the court like in a boxing match? There, I solved it!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
TMS
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12/18/2006  12:15 PM
difference between being thugs like Nate, JR & Melo displayed & playing tough, hard nosed basketball.

btw, i don't have a problem w/Mardy's foul... that's something our old Knicks were well known for & none of us ever had a problem w/it then.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
djsunyc
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12/18/2006  12:23 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by oohah:
it wasn't the same thing. those fouls occurred throughout the entire game. these last 2 occurred after two blowouts in the final minutes. totally different context.

I fail to see the moral difference.

oohah

there is no moral difference. thuggery is thuggery.

it's just a different situation now than it was 10 years ago (like nalod said). i think we can agree on that.

I do agree. I just don't think it is a big deal. Riley ordered hits all the time. (PJ Brown in the playoffs.)

I didn't like the murder-ball style either, Bad-Boys or Knicks. But the NBA may have gone too far the other way by just a tad.

As far as fights spilling into the crowd, why not just put ropes around the court like in a boxing match? There, I solved it!

oohah

i'm not that upset about the foul. it's the fallout and the failure on isiah's part to not even take into account the collateral damage. and more importantly, why commit that foul down 20 with a minute left instead of during 1 of those wide open dunks that they had every other possession. remember when miller waltzed right to the hoop? why do we scatter like roaches instead of committing a hard foul then? and isiah making mardy his personal henchman is not cool either. the kid makes minimum and he's a rookie.
Bippity10
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12/18/2006  12:33 PM
Be a thug in a two point game to send a message that you own the paint. In another 20 point blow out you need to be more focused upon fixing what you are doing wrong. But with us, the focus is never on fixing anything. It's about crying and making excuses.
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nyk4ever
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12/18/2006  1:49 PM
I could care less about the foul. I'm just sick of Isiah blaming everyone for everything that goes wrong that is HIS FAULT. He blames the fans, he blames the coaches, he blames the salary cap, when in reality it's Isiah's fault that the team is down 20 at home with a 9-17 record and that things actually came down to fouling someone because your team is getting blown out at home. Isiah put this roster together and instead of taking his abuse he deflects blame EVERYWHERE. This time the blame shifted to the Nuggets and a brawl ensued. He needs to go.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 12-18-2006 2:01 PM]
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babyKnicks
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12/18/2006  1:52 PM
But this isn't an excuse, this is a rule.

Run up the score, get hard fouled.

Even at temple, it was a rule, funny, didn't mardy play on that team? He's from that school of thought.

No excuses, just letting everyone know that's what happens.

Steal bases in a blow out, get beaned.

Throw deep passes in a blow out, get cheap shotted.

It's the unwritten rules of sports...same rules apply to Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Isiah Thomas, Pat Riley and on down.

To act like this is the first you are hearing of this, is being extremely naive.

Maybe it's just my generation, but as recently as this year there have been hard fouls and bean balls and cheap shots...

Are we misdirecting our anger and inadvertently throwing our franchise under the bus?

You know, cutting off our noses to spite our faces.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
Bippity10
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12/18/2006  1:57 PM
I agree babyknicks. Dunk on guys=hard foul. Also understand that if you foul someone hard they are going to react. All involved were wrong in this situation but there is no rationale for what Carmelo and Nate did. Without them, this is a shoving match with 2 technicals.
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babyKnicks
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12/18/2006  1:59 PM
exactly my point, everyone is looking for any type of collateral damage that can suck in Isiah Thomas because of their agenda.

Nate's a goofball, and he reminds me of a short rasheed wallace...just won't learn.

I'm just glad it's over and most people agree with the penalty.


[Edited by - babyknicks on 12-18-2006 1:59 PM]
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
TMS
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12/18/2006  2:10 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

I agree babyknicks. Dunk on guys=hard foul. Also understand that if you foul someone hard they are going to react. All involved were wrong in this situation but there is no rationale for what Carmelo and Nate did. Without them, this is a shoving match with 2 technicals.

that's what i'm saying... it's on those players for acting like thugs, nothing more, nothing less.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
misterearl
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12/18/2006  3:34 PM
TMS - what you said
once a knick always a knick
Bippity10
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12/18/2006  3:36 PM
I personally think the overall image of this team is a reflection on Isiah. But I agree with TMS that the actions of the players on this particular night, are not Isiah's fault. Even if Isiah said foul someone that goes in the paint hard. It does not mean drag a guy down from behind because he beat you on yet another lay-up. As a player you have to know better. In that case Marty needs to get yelled at by the coach for not getting back on D, and know not to risk a guys career/season by tackling him from behind.

For the record: How did JR Smith not start laughing when Nate got in his face. I thought he looked hilariouis

[Edited by - bippity10 on 12-18-2006 3:37 PM]
I just hope that people will like me
djsunyc
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12/18/2006  3:38 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

When we had Pat, Oak, Ant Nason, Xavier McDaniels, Starks, ets, this team was built on intimidation, physical intimidation.
We manhandled our opposition. HARD fouls, were a way of life. Don't come in trying to dunk unless your sure you can do it. Point blank, our team was thugged out, you cannot deny it. How is it that 2 hard fouls is drawing all of this criticism from Knicks fans who cheered this same thing 10-12 years ago? I mean Mardy's foul wasn't anything really crazy, it was a hard foul, a flagrant, but he didn't do anything really crazy or attempt to injure him.

Twist and contort away.

killa, you need to make your way back to the garden. the best home win of the year happened when you were there.
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How are Knick fans affraid of thuggery?
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