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TrueBlue
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12/15/2006  9:39 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/stats/rpi?season=2007&sortColumn=sos


Draw your own conclusions because I came to mine after about the 5-6th game of the season.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
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BlueSeats
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12/15/2006  10:07 PM
what's interesting is the number of fans who think ESPN are so unfair in their expectations/criticism of the Knicks. Yet they expected our winning percentage to be .426, which would rank us at 19th in the league by that criteria, when in reality we are at .375, which, in reality, puts at 26th in the league.

Yeah, ESPN really has it out for us.
K22
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12/15/2006  10:09 PM
Are you two twin brothers?

I'm not trying to bust on you guys, but you two are like on the same page about damn near everything. :)
-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
TrueBlue
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12/15/2006  10:14 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

what's interesting is the number of fans who think ESPN are so unfair in their expectations/criticism of the Knicks. Yet they expected our winning percentage to be .426, which would rank us at 19th in the league by that criteria, when in reality we are at .375, which, in reality, puts at 26th in the league.

Yeah, ESPN really has it out for us.


LOL I thought that was hilarious also projected win-loss 10-14 and we're sitting at a paltry 9-16
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
BlueSeats
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12/15/2006  10:14 PM
Posted by K22:

Are you two twin brothers?

I'm not trying to bust on you guys, but you two are like on the same page about damn near everything. :)


it's a bit awkward, to say the least.
arkrud
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12/15/2006  11:27 PM
Man...
This stuff is too complicated...
If our Stephan will even think about this he will injured his brain.
Actually left brain. Right brain of his is paralized and canniot be injured
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Bonn1997
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12/16/2006  8:52 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:

what's interesting is the number of fans who think ESPN are so unfair in their expectations/criticism of the Knicks. Yet they expected our winning percentage to be .426, which would rank us at 19th in the league by that criteria, when in reality we are at .375, which, in reality, puts at 26th in the league.

Yeah, ESPN really has it out for us.
It's a purely statistical calculation. It has nothing to do with how reporters feel about the team.

BlueSeats
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12/16/2006  10:13 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by BlueSeats:

what's interesting is the number of fans who think ESPN are so unfair in their expectations/criticism of the Knicks. Yet they expected our winning percentage to be .426, which would rank us at 19th in the league by that criteria, when in reality we are at .375, which, in reality, puts at 26th in the league.

Yeah, ESPN really has it out for us.
It's a purely statistical calculation. It has nothing to do with how reporters feel about the team.

Think a little deeper bonn. Fan's feelings about ESPN's perspective on the Knicks goes a lot deeper than one specific statistical calculation.

And at least let it be known what specifically is the "it" to which you refer.
Bonn1997
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12/16/2006  11:27 AM
BlueSeats
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12/16/2006  11:29 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:



Yes, that's the exact sentiment you left me with. Did you have a point?
Bonn1997
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12/16/2006  11:31 AM
I didn't understand your original point. ESPN reporter bias and the calculations they get their statisticians to do that are reported in that link are two separate issues. You can have biased reporters and objective statisticians.
BlueSeats
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12/16/2006  11:45 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I didn't understand your original point. ESPN reporter bias and the calculations they get their statisticians to do that are reported in that link are two separate issues. You can have biased reporters and objective statisticians.


Homeristic fans often consider guys like myself, dj, and islefan huge "haters" incapable of credible judgments or analysis, however the knicks often underperform relative to or worst expectations. IOW, they do as bad or worse than the biggest haters expect.

Follow so far?

The same accusations are often levied against media like ESPN, SI, etc. Many homeristic fans start thread decrying the media "hate" against the Knicks, yet the Knicks underperform relative to those media expectations as well.

Such fans have to stop thinking the media is dogging their team when in fact the team performs worse than said media's worst expectations.

Is any of this making sense?
Bonn1997
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12/16/2006  12:52 PM
Sorry I didn't understand what you meant. I doubt many people needed this article to realize that this is a terrible organization and a bad team.
tomverve
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12/16/2006  1:25 PM
I think bonn's point was that the "expected win %" you see on that page is a calculation. It's not Marc Stein and friends sitting around a table saying "we expect the Knicks' win % to be .426" So it's a little awkward to phrase it as if the expectation is being attributed to ESPN. For instance you can find the same numbers on Knickerblogger: http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2007/

The fact that the Knicks' actual record is poorer than their (calculated) expected record could suggest two things. One possibility is that the Knicks really have been playing like a .426 team but just have gotten bad breaks so far; in that case we'd expect the actual record to approach the expected record over time as those sorts of things even out. The other possibility is that the Knicks have just been systematically poor in certain kinds of situations in such a way as to bias their actual record to be systematically poorer than the expected record. In that case the actual record should continue to be considerably lower than the expected record, all else being equal.
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djsunyc
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12/16/2006  1:30 PM
Posted by tomverve:

I think bonn's point was that the "expected win %" you see on that page is a calculation. It's not Marc Stein and friends sitting around a table saying "we expect the Knicks' win % to be .426" So it's a little awkward to phrase it as if the expectation is being attributed to ESPN. For instance you can find the same numbers on Knickerblogger: http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2007/

The fact that the Knicks' actual record is poorer than their (calculated) expected record could suggest two things. One possibility is that the Knicks really have been playing like a .426 team but just have gotten bad breaks so far; in that case we'd expect the actual record to approach the expected record over time as those sorts of things even out. The other possibility is that the Knicks have just been systematically poor in certain kinds of situations in such a way as to bias their actual record to be systematically poorer than the expected record. In that case the actual record should continue to be considerably lower than the expected record, all else being equal.

real slick tom, real slick.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 12-16-2006 1:30 PM]
BlueSeats
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12/16/2006  1:46 PM
Posted by tomverve:

I think bonn's point was that the "expected win %" you see on that page is a calculation. It's not Marc Stein and friends sitting around a table saying "we expect the Knicks' win % to be .426" So it's a little awkward to phrase it as if the expectation is being attributed to ESPN. For instance you can find the same numbers on Knickerblogger: http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2007/


I don't know the formula for their calculations but it would appear a certain cognitive evaluation that considers such things as roster redundancies, deficiencies, and deficits of leadership just might be more accurate than pure statistical evaluations.
The fact that the Knicks' actual record is poorer than their (calculated) expected record could suggest two things. One possibility is that the Knicks really have been playing like a .426 team but just have gotten bad breaks so far; in that case we'd expect the actual record to approach the expected record over time as those sorts of things even out. The other possibility is that the Knicks have just been systematically poor in certain kinds of situations in such a way as to bias their actual record to be systematically poorer than the expected record. In that case the actual record should continue to be considerably lower than the expected record, all else being equal.


Where would we be without you to state the obvious.

[Edited by - blueseats on 12-16-2006 1:48 PM]
Allanfan20
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12/16/2006  2:00 PM
DJ, you forgot this part...
Posted by tomverve:

I think bonn's point was that the "expected win %" you see on that page is a calculation. It's not Marc Stein and friends sitting around a table saying "we expect the Knicks' win % to be .426" So it's a little awkward to phrase it as if the expectation is being attributed to ESPN. For instance you can find the same numbers on Knickerblogger: http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2007/

The fact that the Knicks' actual record is poorer than their (calculated) expected record could suggest two things. One possibility is that the Knicks really have been playing like a .426 team but just have gotten bad breaks so far; in that case we'd expect the actual record to approach the expected record over time as those sorts of things even out. The other possibility is that the Knicks have just been systematically poor in certain kinds of situations in such a way as to bias their actual record to be systematically poorer than the expected record. In that case the actual record should continue to be considerably lower than the expected record, all else being equal.


[Edited by - Allanfan20 on 12-16-2006 2:02 PM]

[Edited by - Allanfan20 on 12-16-2006 2:03 PM]

[Edited by - Allanfan20 on 12-16-2006 2:04 PM]
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eViL
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12/16/2006  2:06 PM
Excellent work guys!
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Bonn1997
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12/16/2006  2:11 PM
Posted by tomverve:

I think bonn's point was that the "expected win %" you see on that page is a calculation. It's not Marc Stein and friends sitting around a table saying "we expect the Knicks' win % to be .426" So it's a little awkward to phrase it as if the expectation is being attributed to ESPN. For instance you can find the same numbers on Knickerblogger: http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2007/
That's exactly what I was saying. The expected win % is a statistical calculation that shouldn't leave room to be influenced by any reporter's anti or pro Knicks' attitude.
BlueSeats
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12/16/2006  2:54 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by tomverve:

I think bonn's point was that the "expected win %" you see on that page is a calculation. It's not Marc Stein and friends sitting around a table saying "we expect the Knicks' win % to be .426" So it's a little awkward to phrase it as if the expectation is being attributed to ESPN. For instance you can find the same numbers on Knickerblogger: http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2007/
That's exactly what I was saying. The expected win % is a statistical calculation that shouldn't leave room to be influenced by any reporter's anti or pro Knicks' attitude.


Do you even know the formula that this calculation is based on? I doubt that you do, and I doubt that it's so good that it should be put on any sort of pedestal above an analysts evaluation.

Anyway, the people who carp on and on about how unfair the media is toward the knicks often base those complaints on things like Power Rankings - which are another area based on vaguely defined criteria. If I remember correctly some were shocked and outraged that some rankings started the season with us ranked as low as 27th in the league.

Shocked and Outraged!

Now, 25 games into the season, we're in actuality 26th in the league by win %.
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