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Defending Isiah...
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holfresh
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12/14/2006  9:10 PM
I'm not here to say Isiah is a great GM and that he has done the best possible job that could have been done thus far...What I'm here to say is that Isiah was a necessary evil to turn this ballclub around....Just hear me out for a minute...No other GM would have the gonads to make the BOLD moves necessary to get the Franchise out of the wilderness...Just look at the roster he met here in Dec of 2003..Keith Van Horn..No longer in the NBA..Shannon Anderson..No longer in the NBA..Howard Eisley..No longer in the NBA...Charlie Ward (one of my all time favorites)..No longer in the NBA..Clarence Weatherspoon..No longer in the NBA...Frank Williams..tearing up the NBDL...Allan Houston(I really miss this guy)..Doing commentary for ESPN...Michael Doleac..riding major pine in Miami...Othello Harrington..riding major pine in Charlotte, yes the Bobcats...Dikembe Motumbo..riding major pine in Houston(rumors are that he is a grandfather of three somewhere in Africa)...Antonio McDyss..doing a decent stint as a back up in Detroit...Kurt Thomas..Doing some legit time in Phoenix( his season average is well below his career averages)...

So let's see...Take that roster with a 93 mil salary anchor around it's neck and take me to the playoffs says Dolan...How is that ever possible...To turn that roster to what we currently have has been in short a semi miracle in my eyes...No the Knicks haven't won anything yet, but surely you can see a foundation being formed here...Now we have Curry giving you 20 and 10...David Lee is a double double waiting to happen..Channing Frye, who you know will be solid when he gets his time...A bench that is young and arguably the best in the NBA...Thats is saying a lot..

I hear posters saying they just love the young guys and now we need a GM who can build around them...Excuse me, If you are paying attention, the heavy lifting has been done...Now Isiah is adding the small pieces and building from there...Look at Jeffries..This kid fits this team like a glove in the limited playing time that we have seen...That tells me Isiah knows what the hell he is doing...Not giving this guy the time necessary to see how this all pans out will be totally unfair...I don't mind when Mike and the Mad Dog call for his head and look at the home record and say he needs to be fired...Thats cool because they don't know their arse form their elbows when it comes to basketball..But real Knick fans can see a difference this year..They can see the hustle and the hard play...Only one game this year they have been out of it and they made a charge back..Finally I get the sense that we are on the right track and the tweaking needs to begin..They players need to play and get to know each other..I haven't felt this in a long time...We are on our way and it's almost there...It almost feels like some are afraid he would succeed and wants him out before the team gets better...Have some patients and give the guy a chance, he's making it work...I'm sure by the end of the year most here won't be disappointed...He's not a bad coach to boot...


[Edited by - holfresh on 12-14-2006 9:52 PM]
AUTOADVERT
stanleybostitch
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12/14/2006  9:16 PM

I would agree that Isiah has done a much better job than Layden (who by the way has got to be the poster-child for nepotism if there ever was one), though any one of the posters on this board could probably have done better than Layden (how about a poll for who was more incompetent: Layden or Rich Kotite).

Isiah gets an A for drafting; I would give him a B- for trades; an F for salary cap mgmt, and jury out on coaching.

Overall grade in my book is a C-. Not so good. Unless of course you want to be the President of the United States.
The new new core: Randle, RJ, IQ. Maybe Mitch. Future pick. Future trade. Future FA.
babyKnicks
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12/14/2006  9:44 PM
i think you hit the nail on the head holfresh. Isiah has done all the hard work bringing all these guys in here. Everyone that wants him gone want him gone before he can realize the fruits of his labor.

Unless they want everyone on the team gone...you can't say get rid of isiah because he sucks, and in the next sentence say you want to build around Curry, Lee, Nate, Balkman, Jeffries, etc.

These are his players and he should be given a chance to really see what they can do...most are in their second year on the team and one of those years was basically a throw away under the Hall Of Fame Coach Larry Brown.

This year, I've seen enough to warrant an extension.

By the end of the year, everyone but Islesfan will see it as well.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
TMS
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12/14/2006  9:44 PM
i agree that we're on the right track... NOW... & i agree w/everything you said about the young kids... they give me hope for the future & i give Isiah props for bringing them here... but we're not "almost there" like you're trying to say we are... this team has a long way to go before we get anywhere close to being "there" in my opinion... we're on the right track, but we're at the very beginning of that track at this point... when Isiah got there this franchise was completely & utterly derailed, so he gets credit for at least getting them to this point, although IMO it could have happened alot sooner had he not made certain moves... some of Isiah's bad moves he deserves to be held accountable & any criticism thrown his way is legitimate... that doesn't mean we can't hold out some optimism for this franchise going forward, as long as Dolan & Isiah stick to the plan of developing these young kids & don't take on any more questionable character guys on this team that may put a monkey wrench into the whole thing all over again.

still, it's been a long, torturous journey to get to this point, & i'd rather look ahead to what the future may bring rather than harp on the torturous journey it took to get us here, so with that in mind i give Isiah a little bit more leeway to see where he can take this team... i'm taking the Dolan approach (OMG, did i just say that???)... anyway, yeah, i'm giving Isiah til the end of this season to get this team performing at a noticably higher level than what we've been witness to the past couple seasons... if he can manage that, i have no problem w/him coaching this team next year... as far as being the GM however, i think it's time for someone else to take the reigns... as long as Isiah's in charge i don't ever see Marbury being let go... i think that needs to happen in order for this team to move forward & put the horrible past behind them.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Swishfm3
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12/14/2006  10:12 PM
bet you felt good after typing all that out. lol
islesfan
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12/14/2006  10:23 PM
This is a load of crap.

Any capable GM could have blown it up by gotten those guys off the cap, collected nothing but draft picks, kept their own lottery picks and gotten us into a much better situation than the one we're currently in.

And don't give me that BS about playoff mandates. Where have those mandates been lately? All you hear Isiah talk about is how they're rebuilding. Is Dolan all of a sudden kinder and gentler? No. If Isiah were smart he would have done what was necessary from the beginning.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Rich
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12/14/2006  10:29 PM
Posted by islesfan:

This is a load of crap.

Any capable GM could have blown it up by gotten those guys off the cap, collected nothing but draft picks, kept their own lottery picks and gotten us into a much better situation than the one we're currently in.

And don't give me that BS about playoff mandates. Where have those mandates been lately? All you hear Isiah talk about is how they're rebuilding. Is Dolan all of a sudden kinder and gentler? No. If Isiah were smart he would hAave done what was necessary from the beginning.

Isiah has made tons of mistakes, but your point is flat out wrong. Dolan would not have let Isiah blow it up when he was first hired.
babyKnicks
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12/14/2006  10:30 PM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by islesfan:

This is a load of crap.

Any capable GM could have blown it up by gotten those guys off the cap, collected nothing but draft picks, kept their own lottery picks and gotten us into a much better situation than the one we're currently in.

And don't give me that BS about playoff mandates. Where have those mandates been lately? All you hear Isiah talk about is how they're rebuilding. Is Dolan all of a sudden kinder and gentler? No. If Isiah were smart he would hAave done what was necessary from the beginning.

Isiah has made tons of mistakes, but your point is flat out wrong. Dolan would not have let Isiah blow it up when he was first hired.

yes, I agree, dolan said flat out (actually cut isiah off) "we will make the playoffs this year"
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
islesfan
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12/14/2006  10:31 PM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by islesfan:

This is a load of crap.

Any capable GM could have blown it up by gotten those guys off the cap, collected nothing but draft picks, kept their own lottery picks and gotten us into a much better situation than the one we're currently in.

And don't give me that BS about playoff mandates. Where have those mandates been lately? All you hear Isiah talk about is how they're rebuilding. Is Dolan all of a sudden kinder and gentler? No. If Isiah were smart he would hAave done what was necessary from the beginning.

Isiah has made tons of mistakes, but your point is flat out wrong. Dolan would not have let Isiah blow it up when he was first hired.

He didn't have to blow it up completely. He didn't have to do the stupid Marbury trade.

You honestly think that Dolan would have fired Isiah after 4 months on the job if that team hadn't made the playoffs?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
babyKnicks
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12/14/2006  10:34 PM
is all of the isiah angst from the marbury trade?

Honestly, he hasn't done and isn't doing that bad of a job.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
Rich
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12/14/2006  10:48 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by islesfan:

This is a load of crap.

Any capable GM could have blown it up by gotten those guys off the cap, collected nothing but draft picks, kept their own lottery picks and gotten us into a much better situation than the one we're currently in.

And don't give me that BS about playoff mandates. Where have those mandates been lately? All you hear Isiah talk about is how they're rebuilding. Is Dolan all of a sudden kinder and gentler? No. If Isiah were smart he would hAave done what was necessary from the beginning.

Isiah has made tons of mistakes, but your point is flat out wrong. Dolan would not have let Isiah blow it up when he was first hired.

He didn't have to blow it up completely. He didn't have to do the stupid Marbury trade.

You honestly think that Dolan would have fired Isiah after 4 months on the job if that team hadn't made the playoffs?

Layden reportedly had been negotiating to trade for Marbury as well. At the money Marbury makes, it had to have been run by Dolan. Given Dolan's playoff mandate, it's not unreasonable to think that Dolan may have been a co-driving force behind the trade.

If Isiah had been able to pull off the Rasheed trade, the win now strategy may have worked.

All of this played out against a backdrop of Houston, who was then the Knicks' franchise player, supposedly coming back.
Nalod
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12/14/2006  10:57 PM
In prais of Isiah?

Those guys who were here 3 years ago would not be here anymore.

its not like they'd still be knicks!

Marbury was a mistake. Everything that was negative about the deal has come to be. Marbury was a cancer until he has become irrelevent.
Now he ia a very expensive irrelevent player.

The curry deal was strange but I always held hope the talent was there to shine thru and This is a good trend.

We went on a bizzare path to collect a lot of talent but the sum of the pieces have not added up. Yet.

take out the marbury deal and I could live with certain things.
BRIGGS
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12/14/2006  11:00 PM
It's all about the Ws and Ls.
RIP Crushalot😞
Rich
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12/14/2006  11:05 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

It's all about the Ws and Ls.

In Dolan's world, not necessarily.
K22
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12/14/2006  11:06 PM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by BRIGGS:

It's all about the Ws and Ls.

In Dolan's world, not necessarily.

It's about the dollars and dollars.
-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
Rich
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12/14/2006  11:09 PM
Posted by K22:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by BRIGGS:

It's all about the Ws and Ls.

In Dolan's world, not necessarily.

It's about the dollars and dollars.

Yup, look how long he has stuck with Sather.
Michael6835
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12/14/2006  11:28 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

It's all about the Ws and Ls.

In the grand scheme of things, yes it does come down to wins and losses. But anyone watching this team last year and this year can clearly see that the team is much better than last year. You can see that they are on the verge of turning the corner of being more consistent. To ignore that is saying, I only want to see the negative in the situation. I've got players who are responding to their coach, but I want to fire him in his first year of coachinng because everyone has this perception that he is supposed to come in and automatically win 41 games from 23 or make the playoffs. Which with the way things are going is not that far off. statements like that is why analysts say, NY Fans would never accept rebuilding, because rebuilding/retooling involves losing and no one wants to see losing.
M
Michael6835
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12/14/2006  11:31 PM
also i hear the mad dog show, chris was actually saying that knick fans should root for them to lose so Isaih can get fired. If this is not a loaded statement, I dont know what is. How does an analyst make that statement ? and still keep his credibility. It sounds like he personally doesnt like IT and it comes out.
M
islesfan
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12/14/2006  11:31 PM
Posted by Michael6835:
Posted by BRIGGS:

It's all about the Ws and Ls.

In the grand scheme of things, yes it does come down to wins and losses. But anyone watching this team last year and this year can clearly see that the team is much better than last year. You can see that they are on the verge of turning the corner of being more consistent. To ignore that is saying, I only want to see the negative in the situation. I've got players who are responding to their coach, but I want to fire him in his first year of coachinng because everyone has this perception that he is supposed to come in and automatically win 41 games from 23 or make the playoffs. Which with the way things are going is not that far off. statements like that is why analysts say, NY Fans would never accept rebuilding, because rebuilding/retooling involves losing and no one wants to see losing.

The players haven't completely quit like they did last year. When should we give them their medals?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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12/14/2006  11:35 PM
Posted by Michael6835:

also i hear the mad dog show, chris was actually saying that knick fans should root for them to lose so Isaih can get fired. If this is not a loaded statement, I dont know what is. How does an analyst make that statement ? and still keep his credibility. It sounds like he personally doesnt like IT and it comes out.

No, he's just repeating what more than a few people have said. That Isiah needs to go and the only way for that to happen is for him to not fulfill his Dolan ultimatum.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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