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The Guy who started the Knicks downward Spiral
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playa2
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12/9/2006  11:26 AM
was jeff vandummy.

Him winning the power struggle over Ernie Grunfeld just killed me, along with Ewing promoting him over Don Nelson because Don thought Ewing couldn't pass EFFICENTLY out the post, Nelson choose Anthony Mason to pass out of the post area. This was truly the power struggle that moved the knicks away from the future with Grunfeld and Nellie. We had an owner(Dolan) willing to spend the same X amount of dollars just like Mark Cuban.

Don Nelson @Don JR and Ernie Grunfeld would have kept us among the elite in the NBA
with their basketball savvy and knowledge of where the NBA was headed personel wise.
Players like Arenas and Dirk could be in NY here instead of overpaid Super falling stars.
From Layden to Isiah other than Isiah draft picks ALL OUR TRADES HAVE DONE NOTHING TO MAKE US WINNERS WE PAY SUPERSTAR MONEY FOR SUPER SCRUB PEFORMANCE.

How do you think Layden was able to land a job, jeff vangundy power struggle.

Jeff Vandummy you will always be known by me as the Knicks Franchise Killer.



JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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GoNyGoNyGo
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12/9/2006  11:57 AM
Posted by playa2:

was jeff vandummy.

Him winning the power struggle over Ernie Grunfeld just killed me, along with Ewing promoting him over Don Nelson because Don thought Ewing couldn't pass EFFICENTLY out the post, Nelson choose Anthony Mason to pass out of the post area. This was truly the power struggle that moved the knicks away from the future with Grunfeld and Nellie. We had an owner(Dolan) willing to spend the same X amount of dollars just like Mark Cuban.

Don Nelson @Don JR and Ernie Grunfeld would have kept us among the elite in the NBA
with their basketball savvy and knowledge of where the NBA was headed personel wise.
Players like Arenas and Dirk could be in NY here instead of overpaid Super falling stars.
From Layden to Isiah other than Isiah draft picks ALL OUR TRADES HAVE DONE NOTHING TO MAKE US WINNERS WE PAY SUPERSTAR MONEY FOR SUPER SCRUB PEFORMANCE.

How do you think Layden was able to land a job, jeff vangundy power struggle.

Jeff Vandummy you will always be known by me as the Knicks Franchise Killer.
After all these years, you still are obsessed with JVG? Come on now, Playa.

I will admit, JVG has not done much since he left but, NY has been nothing since he left too. Part of it is the players the other part is the NY Knick attitude that he professed and coached.

You see this year, JVG has the talent and the team is doing well. They wil be heard from in the West before it is all over.

Most fans would be happy to have him back. How great is Washington doing? They are better than NY but they are not a championship team. So every year they make the playoffs and then lose. They get a mid round pick and do it all over again. Nelson? please.

[Edited by - gonygonygo on 12-09-2006 12:00 PM]
Rich
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12/9/2006  1:05 PM
Have you sought help for that?

I mean, I think he's overrated, but still...
Silverfuel
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12/9/2006  1:46 PM
Here we go...
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
playa2
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12/9/2006  2:10 PM
People keep calling layden and Isiah as the guys that brought the knicks down.

IMHO think it all started with Jeff winning the power struggle with Grunfeld.

Gony we had the pieces here with grunfeld remember , so don't compare it with wizards management fiscal responsibilty.

And Nellie and his son were overseas looking for talent that no one had ever heard of. You can't tell me the vision(1999) that grunfeld had almost got derailed because of jeff's ego of wanting Oakley over Camby.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Rich
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12/9/2006  2:31 PM
How was Grunfeld's record with the draft here? Terrible.
franco12
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12/9/2006  3:56 PM
I never really thought about it- but had grunfeld and nelson been able to stay here- it might have worked out nicely. I would trade my roster for either washingtons or dallas. and both teams win and add talent.
Vmart
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12/9/2006  4:39 PM
JVG might have started it but Layden and Zeke have been continuing it.
Ira
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12/9/2006  4:54 PM
Don Nelson benched John Starks to start Hubert Davis.
playa2
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12/9/2006  6:13 PM
Posted by franco12:

I never really thought about it- but had grunfeld and nelson been able to stay here- it might have worked out nicely. I would trade my roster for either washingtons or dallas. and both teams win and add talent.
Franco many haven't seen that scenario, they only saw JVG AND THE KNICKS MAKING THE FINALS. They forgot if Houston doesn't hit that shot JVG is fired.



JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
playa2
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12/9/2006  6:14 PM
Posted by Ira:

Don Nelson benched John Starks to start Hubert Davis.


I wonder if it had to do with starks siding with Pat and being close to Ewing and Ewing not liking Nelson allowing Mason to work in the post.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
crzymdups
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12/9/2006  6:28 PM
I agree that turning point was firing Grunfeld. I don't know if I blame JVG for that. Did it really have to come down to one or the other?
¿ △ ?
Silverfuel
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12/9/2006  6:41 PM
PLAYA IS CRAZY!! DOLAN BUYING THE KNICKS IS WHAT STARTED THE DOWNWARD SPIRAL
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
playa2
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12/9/2006  6:46 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

I agree that turning point was firing Grunfeld. I don't know if I blame JVG for that. Did it really have to come down to one or the other?

Yes that was how it went down.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Bobby
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12/9/2006  9:59 PM
without a doubt, if h20 misses that shot phil jackson would've been ny's next coach and we would've had a championship already.......the rest is just history
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
Silverfuel
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12/9/2006  10:15 PM
Posted by Bobby:

without a doubt, if h20 misses that shot phil jackson would've been ny's next coach and we would've had a championship already.......the rest is just history
I agree! Its Houston's fault.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
CrushAlot
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12/9/2006  11:10 PM
I don't think Van Gundy had anything to do with it and would have kept the team more than respectable had he stayed. However, losing Grunfeld was huge. I see both of those guys as tremendous talents in their field. It was too bad that they couldn't make it work.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
playa2
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12/10/2006  10:34 AM
And the point is if grunfeld stays we get better personel(starting 5) with Dolan's deep pockets, but since Jeff stayed all we got from him was how to play defense not good personel.

IMHO we would have been a better franchise to this day if Ernie Grunfeld stays put and Vandummy leaves.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Nalod
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12/10/2006  5:44 PM
What started the spiral was Ewings last contract.

With Nelson taking the ball out of Ewings hands and not making him the focal point it made Pat mad and he used his leverage (more than once) to leave. Thus, rather than move forward and go in another direction we continued to patch up this roster.

If you go with Ewing, then the JVG type ball was the correct call. Ernie was on the right path, but he made one fatal mistake, he should have moved Ewing.

The team was as mess, built to run but bogged down with ewing and the wrong coach.

So if we must put a face on this, and of course blame must be laid, it was checketts who did not forge the direction of the team.

Nelson was hired to move the team forward from sluggo starphuch ball to the run and gun. Imagine what we could have gotten for Ewing and lets just imagine a camby-spree-h20 run and gun with nelson at the helm?
BasketballJones
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12/10/2006  6:21 PM
Naw, the decline started way back in November 1946.
https:// It's not so hard.
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