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garden faces a seat-uation (lupica)
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djsunyc
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12/6/2006  10:09 AM
Garden faces a seat-uation

Wednesday, December 6th, 2006

This is the way it always works in sports: You do the job, especially in New York, and you get your props. So credit must be given to Knicks fans still showing up at the Garden for finally doing their part for Isiah Thomas and his players and being the kind of home crowd Isiah expects these people to be.

Forget that Monday night's game was against the Grizzlies, the worst team in the league right now with three starters - Pau Gasol, Eddie Jones, Damon Stoudamire - out of Mike Fratello's lineup. Forget that this was one of those nights at the Garden, formerly the world's most famous arena, when there were thousands of empty seats, the most the Knicks have had since before Pat Riley.

This is a results town and a results business and even will be for Isiah Thomas eventually. The fans produced some results Monday night. They finally got the job done and got the Knicks their second home victory of the season, even if Isiah's Knicks - and they sure aren't anybody else's - were hanging on for dear life at the end and might have been saved by a Malik Rose offensive rebound in the last minute.

For one night the people with the most expensive tickets in town - to anything - didn't make the most expensive basketball team in this world so afraid that the players couldn't do their job properly.

Now we'll see how the fans come back tonight against the Wizards.

"I think what needs to happen is (the Knicks) need to be a little more afraid of me than the crowd," Isiah Thomas said after the Knicks hung on to beat the Grizzlies and bring their home record to 2-7 and their record for the whole season to 7-13. "They need to be more afraid of what I'll do as opposed to what the crowd will do or worrying whether they will get booed or not."

Isiah says a lot of things. He has a lot of theories. Not only is he the world's expert on growing up on the West Side of Chicago now, he loves to explain New York to everybody, not just the West Side, but the East Side, and the Bronx and the Battery, too. What he seems to be saying here is that he wants his players to be as afraid of him as his fans are.

Again: There is no more expensive top ticket in town than the Knicks. Make any list you want. A premium ticket for The Nutcracker goes for $200. The Metropolitan Opera is $375. "A Chorus Line" is $251 for a weekend show. "Jersey Boys" - not the Nets - is $351 for a weekend show. The Knicks go as high as $2,500 at courtside. A ticket in the second row behind the basket is $240.

Soon Isiah will celebrate his third anniversary having the run of the Garden and unlimited use of James Dolan's credit cards. And while he has yet to produce a single playoff victory despite spending more money than any other executive in the NBA during his time in New York, he has started to produce a rather impressive number of empty seats for Dolan in a place that had a decade's worth of sellouts not so long ago.

Once a Knicks playoff ticket, against Riley's Heat, was as hot as a ticket to Yankee Stadium to watch Torre's Yankees in October. Now it seems there are good seats available almost every night.

"We've got to start winning at home," Thomas said. "We've got to get to the point where we make our arena uncomfortable."

Actually, he's already done that.

But if you listen closely to what he has been saying for the past couple of weeks, the Knicks' poor play at home is somehow the building's fault. He even gets people in the building to buy into this line of happy horsefeathers. There was Al Trautwig of the happy-talk MSG network talking to Kenny Smith after the Knicks lost to Toronto Saturday night and talking about how there was a bad "vibe" in the building from the start. As if that had anything to do with Chris Bosh abusing people left and right.

Here is a bulletin for all of them over there:

They are lucky they are getting the kinds of crowds they're getting. But since everything bad that happens to the Knicks has to be the fault of anybody or anything besides Isiah, including the sexual harassment suit against him that keeps plodding through the court system, it was inevitable that somehow it would be somebody else's fault that other teams were feeling "comfortable" at the Garden and Isiah's kids were "uncomfortable."

"Our guys have been knocked around pretty tough at home," Isiah said a couple of weeks ago. This was a day when he talked about the Knicks needing some love from the home crowd.

They get it when they earn it. Knicks fans don't want this guy explaining to them what the Garden is and isn't. They are paying more than they would for Broadway or the opera or the Yankees or the Giants for the best seat in the house and they want some results, and not just against the Memphis Grizzlies.

Maybe Isiah's problem is this: Maybe he thinks everybody in town knows as little about basketball as his owner does, an owner who has earned a brand new nickname because of the guy in charge of his basketball operation:

Good Seats Available Dolan!

See, the problem for Isiah isn't the people in their fancy seats. It's the ones who aren't.
AUTOADVERT
anrst
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12/6/2006  10:35 AM
Excellent Column
Bippity10
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12/6/2006  10:44 AM
Pretty harsh but the message is so true. We have been making excuses here for years and are still making excuses. The players have been running the asylum for so long. Nothing is their fault. It's the coach, it's the fans, it's the sun. We need lay down the law(for real) and make sure they understand that they play the games. No matter how mean your coach is, or how mean the fans are, you have to win. End of story. The conditions will never be perfect, so if guys can't handle it they have to be jettisoned. Personally I thought the excuses were gone last year. I thought with the joy being back guys would just play and Isiah would just coach. Enough of the sideshow. Forget the fans and play.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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12/6/2006  10:45 AM
If Isiah had held his players accountable weeks ago they would have adjusted to the garden weeks ago. But by blaming Gardne fans himself he has given the players a built in excuse. Enough!
I just hope that people will like me
Anji
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12/6/2006  10:52 AM
Who Cares, they will start to win because they have shown they can win going into other teams buildings and winning. When they do, it will be inspite of the fans, which is SAD!!!!!! I think that's the point Isiahis trying to make...... Don't be a hindrance.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Bippity10
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12/6/2006  11:14 AM
And the point the fans are trying to make is don't quit and blame the coach for all you ills when we are paying hundreds of dollars for seats. It goes both ways my friend. You don't quit and then get applause. Maybe at your job, but not in men's leagues.
I just hope that people will like me
arkrud
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12/6/2006  11:15 AM
We have only 3 well established players: Q, Curry, and JJ2 (not played yet) at their respective positions
All other guys are young and inexperienced or playing out of position - including Steve and Steph who are not only playing out of position but also at the decluine.
What IT can generate out of this?
He already did all the damage possible and it's time to go...
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
BasketballJones
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12/6/2006  11:28 AM
The fans have a lot to answer for. Not only this season's awful record, but last years as well. Really, we've had five years of lousy basketball because of these fans. It's time for them to go.

Memo to Dolan: You need to hire some new fans. Get on it.
https:// It's not so hard.
Anji
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12/6/2006  12:17 PM
SHM, this is like arguing with 90 year old.......*ugh*


Yeah I know, back in your day you could spit on Ewing and he would go for 20 & 10. LOL!!!


Ok, one last question/point. YOu have a team full of first and second year players, players that weren't on the team team five years ago, hell a couple of players who were in Highschool 5 years ago......... Why not help them when they are showing they can win in front of other teams crowds???? It's stupid!!!!!!!!
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
BlueSeats
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12/6/2006  12:38 PM
If the reason we're losing at home this year (last year it was Larry's fault, remember?) is because of the crowd, how is it Isiah pretty much knew his team "might stink" (and sure enough) for the home opener the day before they even enter the building?

Is it possible that Isiah's comments, and his team's predictable (even to him) poor play, are what sets the crowd off? Is it possible that being told all summer that everything was Larry's fault, and that we're a great team, and everything would be different, and yet we'll probably suck, may have fueled peoples discontent when they in fact opened the season looking every bit as poor as last year?

All I ever want to hear from Isiah is "We're going to work as hard as we can to earn the trust and respect of our fans. We are extremely grateful to them for providing the revenue for our gargantuan salaries. I appreciate their feedback and I look forward to the day they cheer again, because that is when I'll know I've fulfilled on my commitment to give them a team they can be proud of."

Anything less is scapegoating and denial.
Bippity10
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12/6/2006  12:55 PM
Posted by Anji:

SHM, this is like arguing with 90 year old.......*ugh*


Yeah I know, back in your day you could spit on Ewing and he would go for 20 & 10. LOL!!!


Ok, one last question/point. YOu have a team full of first and second year players, players that weren't on the team team five years ago, hell a couple of players who were in Highschool 5 years ago......... Why not help them when they are showing they can win in front of other teams crowds???? It's stupid!!!!!!!!

Are the first and 2nd year players getting boo'd. Are any of them struggling? Frye maybe. It's the 10 year vets that are struggling the most at home. Mainly because they are getting held accountable for their actions for once and they don't like it. It saddens them not to get applause for not winning.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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12/6/2006  12:57 PM
Bottom line: This in NY. Personally I don't boo. Never have. But in NY fans boo when they don't get effort. That's the way it has always been. If you don't like it, accept less money to play in Utah because all the crying in the world isn't going to change it. So suck it up and play despite your "unreasonable" work conditions. Nobody wants to hear the whining.
I just hope that people will like me
arkrud
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12/6/2006  4:34 PM
Nobody expect Frye, Lee, Balkman, and even Nate to be great right away.
And when they committing mental or other mistakes nobody boo. If they show some flashes of grateness the crowed is given them standing ovation because this is the glimps of the future.
But we do expect Marbs, Steve, Curry, Jerome waste of space to play at least up to the money they payed.
And when they are playing crappy we will boo and have all right to do this.
We expected from IT as GM and Couch to built a competative winning team and if he is not making this happen we have all right to boo him all the way out of the NY...

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
babyKnicks
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12/6/2006  4:48 PM
not sure if anyone posted this, but I prefer nobody go to the games, the two games with our lowest attendance, the knicks won.

The boo birds are the one's staying home, so do we really want them back before the team gells? (sp)

just something to chew on.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
BasketballJones
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12/6/2006  4:49 PM
Posted by babyKnicks:

not sure if anyone posted this, but I prefer nobody go to the games, the two games with our lowest attendance, the knicks won.

The boo birds are the one's staying home, so do we really want them back before the team gells? (sp)

just something to chew on.

Agreed. It's best if no fans show up at the games.
https:// It's not so hard.
babyKnicks
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12/6/2006  4:50 PM
or the opposing teams fans only. Can we get that to happen?
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
BasketballJones
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12/6/2006  5:03 PM
Naw, the Garden should be like a library. You should be able to hear a pin drop.
https:// It's not so hard.
djsunyc
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12/6/2006  5:05 PM
SugarRayRichardson
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12/6/2006  5:05 PM
Maybe I'm just a jock stuck in my high school mentality but how can somebody compare going to a Knicks game (or Giants/Rangers/Yankees game) to going to see a broadway show like Rent?
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
BasketballJones
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12/6/2006  5:11 PM
If we do have to tolerate the presence of fans, how about "Ball Gag Day"? As each fan has enters the garden, a garden employee fits him or her with an orange and blue ball gag.
https:// It's not so hard.
garden faces a seat-uation (lupica)

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