http://www.commercialappeal.com/mca/grizzlies/article/0,1426,MCA_475_5188742,00.html


The last time Mike Fratello and Isiah Thomas had a meaningful conversation about coaching happened sometime between late December 2003 and mid-January of 2004.
That was during the infancy of Thomas' reign over the New York Knicks and a period in which the team changed coaches.

Fratello believed he would be Thomas' first major hire. Thomas delivered the strong impression, but then abruptly changed his mind and hired Lenny Wilkens to guide the Knicks.
Fratello and Thomas clearly weren't on the same page back then.




My theory has always been LB and Isiah had a verbal agreemnent that Isiah would move the players LB wanted moved(who wouldn't conform to his ways) and when zeke didn't come thru, he felt he got doublecrossed.

Isiah was always sucking up to dolan using Star power aquisations(MARBURY) to fill up the seats, but Larry knew that approach wouldn't work so he took the job knowing their relationship "WAS" good while getting a verbal from Zeke early on.

By using 42 rotations playing vets instead of the youth, that told me LB knew these guys given the full duty of starting would wilt under the pressure of performing in MSG.

See it unfold right before our eyes... LB knew the personel on the knicks, Zeke did too but didn't want his boss(dolan) to think he was wrong by spending all his money.

IN HOUSE POLITICS

whatta ya think ?







[Edited by - playa2 on 12-04-2006 06:44]

whole article:

Fratello, Thomas share job insecurity

Griz, Knicks coaches also have some history

By Ronald Tillery
Contact
December 4, 2006

The last time Mike Fratello and Isiah Thomas had a meaningful conversation about coaching happened sometime between late December 2003 and mid-January of 2004.

That was during the infancy of Thomas' reign over the New York Knicks and a period in which the team changed coaches.

Fratello believed he would be Thomas' first major hire. Thomas delivered the strong impression, but then abruptly changed his mind and hired Lenny Wilkens to guide the Knicks.

Fratello and Thomas clearly weren't on the same page back then.

They are, however, speaking the same language about three years removed from nearly working together. Interestingly enough, they are on the same level as lame-duck coaches with no guarantees beyond this season.

"We both have to win," said Fratello, who will guide his injury-riddled Grizzlies against Thomas' Knicks tonight in Madison Square Garden. "If you're being judged on wins, then we're both in the position of being on the last year of our deals and we have to win."

That will be the undercurrent after Fratello and Thomas offer nothing more than a head nod from their respective benches.

Thomas won the first showdown -- a triple-overtime thriller on opening night in FedExForum. The Atlantic Division bottom-dwelling Knicks aren't exactly dominant at home with a 1-7 record.

Fratello isn't forgiving about the Knicks' situation -- past and present.

And the Knicks haven't been too forgiving with Thomas, who received stern marching orders in the offseason after firing coach Larry Brown. After building what onlookers view as an unbalanced and underachieving rosters as team president, Thomas was required -- by ownership -- to coach this season.

Thomas has been told that the Knicks must return to respectability or he's out the door.

Perhaps this is poetic justice for Fratello, who insists that Thomas did an about face after contacting him about replacing Don Chaney as head coach.

"He changed his mind for whatever reasons," Fratello said. "Was money discussed? No. Were years discussed? No. We had a conversation and the way we left it was ... well, based on the conversation and what was told to me, what eventually happened wasn't what he said it was going to be."

What happened is that a New York newspaper declared Fratello was the Knicks' coach. Instead, Thomas introduced Wilkens at a press conference. That is how Fratello learned he wasn't the guy.

He remains disappointed by how Thomas handled the situation. But Fratello isn't pining over the Knicks' perceived mess. Not even legendary coach Larry Brown could make the roster successful.

After all, Fratello has his own worries.

This campaign -- Fratello's third since joining the Griz 11 months after being spurned by the Knicks in 2004 -- has been arguably his most challenging as a coach.

"There's an ownership change at hand. Is the guy that hired you going to be back?" Fratello said, referring to Griz president Jerry West. "All of those questions are part of the equation. And not only do we lose Pau (Gasol) but we lose Eddie (Jones) and Damon (Stoudamire), and Kyle (Lowry) was playing terrific for us. These are major losses.

"There's no question this is part of the business. But you're in a difficult spot. As a coach who would like to continue coaching, you're with a team that's been fractured so many different ways. So do you really have a chance on paper to show what you can do and can't with wins and losses? But if you're confident in yourself, you know that people who know basketball know what you can do. Even when you lose, they know whether your team is competing."

Fratello contends that he remains focused on the day-to-day of coaching rather than trying to plot his future.

Fratello knows that his destiny isn't always in his hands.

"I've never been planned out to where I'm thinking this is where I'll be when something is over," Fratello said. "I've always been like what happens, happens for a reason."

F'N FRAUD!

conspiracy theory and its bs. You know why? Because all the jabs that went back and forth were much worse. Why wouldn't LB come out and say Isiah lied to him? He has/had more credibility so we would believe him.

I think the Knicks are losing all these games because of the way the Sun lines up with Venus and Saturn. I bet when that changes, the Knicks will start winning.

Given LB's erratic history when it comes to personnel issues, how could you conclude that LB's actions were predicated on IT lying to him. If LB and IT had an agreement that certain players would be moved, Dolan would have known about and those players would have been moved before last season. IT turned his back on LB only after the public blowups and the losing. That was when IT finally said that he was not going to do what LB wanted. I only wish he had done so before he agreed to do the Francis trade.

i think all 3 were operating on their own private agendas... Dolan to sell tickets, Isiah to save his job, & LB to get Isiah fired... it was all a big mess last year.

Not hiring Fratello was the the first, and probably the worst, of Isiah's bad moves. then came Marbury, TT, Crawford, and on and on.

But hiring a good coach and supporting him would have added a counterbalance to so many of Isiah's mistakes. No way could two basketball minds working together come up with this mishmash of redundancy.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Not hiring Fratello was the the first, and probably the worst, of Isiah's bad moves. then came Marbury, TT, Crawford, and on and on.

But hiring a good coach and supporting him would have added a counterbalance to so many of Isiah's mistakes. No way could two basketball minds working together come up with this mishmash of redundancy.

i don't think Fratello & Isiah would have been any more of a success than LB & Isiah, only cheaper... in the end, this team would still be bad because of the lack of leadership both in the lockerroom & in the upper management.

and on the other end of the spectrum, lenny and isiah didn't work.

that's why isiah's coaching. nobody could work with him.

Anucha?

playa - Larry got PAID to keep his mouth shut

It ain't that deep

Posted by tapseer:

I don't believe this post. It's nonsense and a waste of time. LB was fully aware of everything from the get go. You don't offer a man a $50 million dollar contract to undermine him. This is just some more IT hate.

What exactly is the financial threshold below which you do undermine and above which you don't?

Clearly Wilkens didn't demand enough - he quit for being undermined - and all future coaches under Isiah (should he ever GM again) will similarly need to know how just how much is required.

Posted by crzymdups:

David Stern had a lot to do with Brown not getting his full contract. Stands to reason he doesn't believe the issue was as simple as Isiah undermined Brown. Let's not forget that Brown got less than 50% of the money left on his contract. Maybe those claims that he undermined Isiah were true. It's a too way street and Brown has a history of lying and backstabbing.

we have absolutely no idea what stern's position was on the subject other than that he preferred (and strongly suggested) that the parties work it out on their own.