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babyKnicks
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11/3/2006  11:13 AM
It's my opinion that Lee plays better when he comes off the bench.
Until he can prove that he can hit an outside jumper and make his free throws, all evidence points to him coming off the bench and filling in where the starter of choice is deficient.

Be it coming in for frye, Curry or even at times small forward, it's in the knicks best interest to let the game dictate how lee is used, as opposed to allowing the other team to capitalize on Lee's current flaws. (albeit, there are few)

this article kind of reminded me of this theory...haters...go easy on me.

After starting off slowly, Lee comes up very big

BY ALAN HAHN
Newsday Staff Correspondent

November 3, 2006

ATLANTA -- Somewhat lost in the wild ending in Memphis was the strong performance off the bench - especially in the three extra periods - by David Lee. He was scoreless with one rebound after three quarters, but he finished with 10 points and 12 rebounds in the Knicks' 118-117 win, including the final rebound of the game off Mike Miller's miss.

Lee, who presented Isiah Thomas the game ball afterward, said he promised his coach he would get that final rebound, "because that's what I do."

Lee also put down a reverse jam off an alley-oop pass from Quentin Richardson in the third overtime to tie the score at 115. He had a blocked shot against Rudy Gay and a putback in the first overtime to keep the Knicks from losing.

Thomas praised the 6-10 forward's game and said he went with him over the less effective Channing Frye late because the Grizzlies went small. Frye, a 6-11 power forward who has struggled somewhat in Thomas' up-tempo motion offense, finished with four points and only four rebounds.

Thomas said Lee was a better fit for a game that went small. At one point, Lee was the tallest player on the court for either team. In the third quarter, Thomas had him out there with an otherwise all-guard lineup of Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, Nate Robinson and Jamal Crawford.

"The quickness was bothering us a little bit up front," Thomas said. "So David came in and was able to stabilize. He was able to rebound the basketball and he's such a good passer, so we put the ball in his hands a little bit."

http://www.greenwichtime.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-spknotes034958599nov03,0,1485673,print.story?coll=ny-knicks-print
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
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babyKnicks
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11/3/2006  11:13 AM
Playing against the other teams top players at the PF position, I am of the opinion that this will stunt his effectiveness and lead to foul trouble.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
nyk4ever
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11/3/2006  11:14 AM
RV. Why did you change your name?
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Allanfan20
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11/3/2006  11:22 AM
No shot in hell that that's RV.

And I thought Lee played pretty solidly when he was in the starting lineup last season.

Here's a question though. Who are we hindering more by putting them in the SL. Frye or Lee? Frye gets killed on defense and gets in foul problems, Lee we don't know yet. Gotto try new things!
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
oohah
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11/3/2006  11:27 AM
Here is the argument. His D is worse than Fryes. He is so focused on rebounding that he loses his man constantly.

And I like Lee.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Masterplan
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11/3/2006  11:58 AM
did you guys notice this from the recaps yesterday?
"I told Isiah in the huddle, there's no way they're getting a tip-in to win this thing," Lee said.

lee has a great attitude, coming through on that after battling all game.

not sure how that ties into this question, but wanted to put that out there. maybe going along with the crawford arguments- it's not who starts it's who finished that matters.

i would also add that we need another real hustle player who rebounds in the SL. i remember for the bulk of the first quarter whenever we missed a shot, there were four white jerseys around the ball and absolutely no knicks. one of the first things balkman did when he came in was grab an offensive rebound between three grizzlies. we need someone who gets us extra possessions like that in the starting lineup- someone who gets steals, plays the passing lanes, hits the offensive boards hard. and as much as i like Q (not just after one game, i've been in his corner since we traded for him) it can't be him, not if he's going to have to guard the other team's best perimeter scorer and look for his jumpshot on O.
martin
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11/3/2006  12:35 PM
Posted by oohah:

Here is the argument. His D is worse than Fryes. He is so focused on rebounding that he loses his man constantly.

And I like Lee.

oohah

? You watchin the same game as the rest of us?
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Swishfm3
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11/3/2006  1:03 PM
I think its to early to bench Frye.

They both played 30 minutes each....I think that's good for now. Let's come 10 games into the season and see where they stand
oohah
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11/3/2006  1:07 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by oohah:

Here is the argument. His D is worse than Fryes. He is so focused on rebounding that he loses his man constantly.

And I like Lee.

oohah

? You watchin the same game as the rest of us?

Okay Martin, instead of asking that, why don't you tell how great Lee's defense was/is, last game or last season. Any evidence to back that up?

Did you notice that Warrick went off when Frye came out? Lee does not stay with his man.

I guess I am not watching the same game you are: Lee=Perfect, Frye=Awful.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
fishmike
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11/3/2006  1:25 PM
Lee = keeps his man in front him
Frye = turnstyle

Lee is a much better rebounder on both sides of the ball. Frye has skills on offense Lee doesnt.

Lee is a better fit next to Curry. I've been saying it all summer. Frye just isnt a PF
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
oohah
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11/3/2006  1:41 PM
Lee = keeps his man in front him
Frye = turnstyle

Totally untrue. You just have preconceptions and you are only allowing yourself to see what fits into them:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=261101029&period=1
First Quarter:
Eddie Jones bad pass (Channing Frye steals)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=261101029&period=3
3rd Quarter:
Channing Frye blocks Lawrence Roberts's driving layup

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=261101029&period=4
Fourth Quarter:
Hakim Warrick offensive foul (Channing Frye draws the foul)
David Lee blocks Kyle Lowry's driving layup

I think Lee had a steal as well. Go ahead and check out the play by play. Frye and Curry were the only people on the team doing any intimidating. Frye Caused shot changes 2-3 times in addition to the plays I have highlighted.

Furthermore, Gay, Warrick, Atkins, Miller were doing whatevere trhey wanted to in terms of driving the hole when Frye was out.


Check it out if you want to: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=261101029&period=1

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
King1
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11/3/2006  1:44 PM
If Channing isnt making shots he doenst help the team period. For argument sake neither guy guards anyone, Lee will rebound, and he is a much better passer thatn Frye and he doenst demand the ball. Even when Frye isnt hitting shots he wasnt rebounding or doing anything else. Lee made great outlet passes and didnt turn the ball over and at least got rebounds and made plays. I think Channing is a better player but right now he is getting things done.
oohah
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11/3/2006  1:54 PM
Posted by King1:

If Channing isnt making shots he doenst help the team period. For argument sake neither guy guards anyone, Lee will rebound, and he is a much better passer thatn Frye and he doenst demand the ball. Even when Frye isnt hitting shots he wasnt rebounding or doing anything else. Lee made great outlet passes and didnt turn the ball over and at least got rebounds and made plays. I think Channing is a better player but right now he is getting things done.



That is a fairer view but not entirely true. he did infact make many good defensive plays last game, he had a couple of nice passess, and he grabbed a couple of boards, though not enough. His offense was off that was the major problem, but he did contribute.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
fishmike
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11/3/2006  2:09 PM
I dont have to look at the game log to see Frye could not keep Warrick in front of him. How many rebounds did Warrick have in the first 5 minutes? Frye had a terrible game defensively, plain and simple.. getting a steal or a block here or there doesnt equat to playing 'OK' defense. Please, you dont have an objective bone in your body when it comes to judging anything Frye does. Thats fine, glad your a fan of the guy. If you want to defend his abilities or potential fine, but I would stay away from his performance.

Lets see how he does against Sheldon tonight. Better matchup for Frye (slower player)
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Allanfan20
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11/3/2006  2:22 PM
I'm just wondering if his defense stays this, if Isiah sticks to this gun or if he does make a change. It will be interesting if he did put Lee in the SL instead.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Cookdcokehop
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11/3/2006  2:24 PM
David Lee is the Aaron Heilman of the Knicks. It wouldnt be the same if he was starting. Sure he would make a decent starter, but it would take away from our second team's tenacity. We need Lee, Nate Rob, and Balkman coming off the bench providing their energy.
martin
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11/3/2006  2:26 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by martin:
Posted by oohah:

Here is the argument. His D is worse than Fryes. He is so focused on rebounding that he loses his man constantly.

And I like Lee.

oohah

? You watchin the same game as the rest of us?

Okay Martin, instead of asking that, why don't you tell how great Lee's defense was/is, last game or last season. Any evidence to back that up?

Did you notice that Warrick went off when Frye came out? Lee does not stay with his man.

I guess I am not watching the same game you are: Lee=Perfect, Frye=Awful.

oohah

hey, I don't claim that Lee's defense is perfect, and no need to put words in my mouth with the Lee=perfect, Frye=Awful.

Anyone can quote the log for just about any play and show that the player gets a rebound or block or steal at some point. I watch the game and see Frye not go for rebounds or box out or move his feet as much as Lee does and draw a conclusion.
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King1
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11/3/2006  2:29 PM
All I am saying is Frye scores more if he doesnt start, because he would be the first option with the second group. With the first group when he get the balls he feels he has to shoot because he will never get it back thus forcing bad shots. David will do all of Curry dirty work and he may not run out of gas so quick. I dont care who starts as long as they win.
gr33d
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11/3/2006  2:34 PM
Posted by babyKnicks:

Playing against the other teams top players at the PF position, I am of the opinion that this will stunt his effectiveness and lead to foul trouble.

Are you describing Channing or David?

They're both young players, that need to improve defensively. Patience is key at this point, it's the only way either of them will develop.

My opinion: If David starts taking and hitting his jumper, the pressure might suffocate Frye.
"If you ain't first, you're last" - Ricky Bobby
oohah
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11/3/2006  2:35 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by oohah:
Posted by martin:
Posted by oohah:

Here is the argument. His D is worse than Fryes. He is so focused on rebounding that he loses his man constantly.

And I like Lee.

oohah

? You watchin the same game as the rest of us?

Okay Martin, instead of asking that, why don't you tell how great Lee's defense was/is, last game or last season. Any evidence to back that up?

Did you notice that Warrick went off when Frye came out? Lee does not stay with his man.

I guess I am not watching the same game you are: Lee=Perfect, Frye=Awful.

oohah

hey, I don't claim that Lee's defense is perfect, and no need to put words in my mouth with the Lee=perfect, Frye=Awful.

Anyone can quote the log for just about any play and show that the player gets a rebound or block or steal at some point. I watch the game and see Frye not go for rebounds or box out or move his feet as much as Lee does and draw a conclusion.

And Martin, there is no need to suggest that I am not aware of what I am looking at, though I do understand you were joking. It just gets tiresome.

I did not just quote one play, I went through the whole log. It's pretty easy, all you have to do is search the name.

This Lee moves his feet stuff/Frye does not is just untrue. Bogus. There is no evidence, either statistical nor anecdotal to back that up. His D is just as bad as Frye's probably worse.

On the other hand Frye moved his feet real nice when he drew that Charge on Warrick.

Again, when Frye was out and Lee was in, the entire Memphis squad was going to the hole like they were driving down I95. Did you see that or did you not see it?

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 03-11-2006 2:39 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
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