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the age of the Thug is gone...
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rvhoss
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10/22/2006  10:42 PM
and good riddance.

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061022/REPOSITORY/610220374/1007/SPORTS

Dinosaurs of the East adopt up-tempo style
Rough-and-tumble approach waning



By CLIFF BRUNT
The Associated Press


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
October 22. 2006 10:00AM


INDIANAPOLIS - The Indiana Pacers were the last holdouts, a plodding dinosaur in the Eastern Conference.

Not anymore.

The slow-paced, rough-and-tumble style of basketball that was all the rage in the East through the 1990s? It's extinct.

The Pacers are switching to a free-flowing offense this year, opting for a scheme similar to the one the Phoenix Suns used to light up scoreboards across the league the past two seasons.

It follows a trend that has the Eastern Conference looking more like the old wild, wild West. East teams outscored their West counterparts last season for the first time since 1991, and had their highest scoring average (97.5 points per game) since 1995.

Coaches, players and team officials say better athletes, an increase in foreign talent, rules changes that limit the defense's options and the league's desire to put out a more entertaining product all have contributed to the East's emergence as the NBA's higher-scoring half.
"At the end of the day, I think the league would love to see every team average over 100 points because arenas are going to be filled and there's going to be a lot more action," Indiana forward Al Harrington said. "I think the worst thing that can happen is when you have games on national TV and the score is 70-to-60-something. Nobody wants to watch that."

The East's leapfrog in points surprised some players last season. West power Phoenix still led the league with 108 points per game, but the six lowest-scoring teams - New Orleans, Utah, Memphis, Minnesota, Houston and Portland - all hailed from the West.

Indiana guard Darrell Armstrong, a 12-year veteran, was shocked.

"If you ask 10 people out of 10 that question, they'll say the West scores more," he said.

The East took a major step last season when the previously defensive-minded Detroit Pistons began focusing more on the other end of the floor. Detroit should score even more this year now that defensive ace Ben Wallace is in Chicago and has been replaced by Nazr Mohammed, more of an offensive threat.

Even Toronto and New York will run.

The Pacers added versatile forward Shawne Williams and guard James White on draft day, then picked up athletic veterans Marquis Daniels and Harrington in the offseason to help make their plan work.

Toronto added lightning-quick point guard T.J. Ford in the offseason to be its version of Phoenix's Steve Nash, the two-time defending league MVP.

"We went out and traded for a fast point guard, someone who arguably is one of the quickest in the league with the ball, end to end," said Bryan Colangelo, former president and general manager in Phoenix who now holds the same position with the Toronto Raptors. "T.J. Ford serves as the catalyst for the type of style we hope to employ, and that is an up-tempo, high-scoring, simplified offense."

The Knicks, the franchise that epitomized the old slow-down style, also is going up-tempo. Playmakers Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury, Jamal Crawford and Nate Robinson could turn New York games into track meets.

The high point totals are a throwback to the golden age of the 1980s. In 1984-85, teams across the league averaged 110.8 points. That dropped to 91.6 per game during the 1998-99 season, the lowest total since the league introduced the shot clock in 1954. Teams across the league averaged 97 points last season.

"If you look at the great teams, from the Celtics to the Pistons to the Lakers, they ran," Indiana forward Jermaine O'Neal said. "Those are the people that started the fast breaks. The NBA goes in cycles and trends. They had the fast-paced game, then they went to the physical-type game with a slower pace. Now it's going back to the fast pace."

The pace slowed down in the 1990s because of the presence of back-to-the-basket centers such as New York's Patrick Ewing and Shaquille O'Neal, then with Orlando. Now, the trend is to stock up on athletes capable of playing multiple positions.

Harrington, at 6-foot-9 and 245 pounds, will play anything from small forward to center. Jermaine O'Neal, at 6-11 and 260 pounds, also will play some center.

"There's not an abundance of (traditional) big men in our league," Indiana President Larry Bird said. "You always like to have a big man in the middle, but if you don't, you're really playing three forwards, and sure, you're going to get up and down the court a little quicker."

Boston Coach Doc Rivers said teams in the past stuck to traditional lineups. Now, they are putting their top players on the floor, regardless of position, and that is contributing to the spike in scoring.

"The old-school way, you still played a 4 and 5, and a 1, 2 and a 3. Now I think coaches, and I follow in that category as well, are thinking, well, why?"

Rivers said teams went into the offseason looking for quickness and players who can score off the dribble because of stricter enforcement of rules against hand checking last season.

East teams also responded to the influx of young, foreign 7-footers who have used their shooting range and athleticism to open up the floor. New Jersey's Nenad Krstic (Serbia and Montenegro), Milwaukee's Andrew Bogut (Australia) and Orlando's Darko Milicic (Serbia and Montenegro) all have outside shooting skills. This summer's top draft pick, Toronto's Andrea Bargnani (Italy), will join that group.

"Europeans play a fast game," Bird said. "They move the ball. They rely on passing to get open shots and they use the 3-pointer probably a little more than we use ours."

Bird said he's not sure if scoring across the league will get back to the way it was when he played for the Boston Celtics from 1979-92.

"I don't know if the defenses are better now or if we just shot the ball a lot better," he said.

But Colangelo said the shift brings competitive and entertainment value.

"It's certainly more entertaining from a fan standpoint and from a television viewing standpoint than a more deliberate style," Colangelo said.

------ End of article

By CLIFF BRUNT

The Associated Press




all kool aid all the time.
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rvhoss
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10/22/2006  10:45 PM
explains why LB (old dog) couldn't make it in today's NBA (new tricks)

unless he back doors a current coach with a ready made contender that just needs that push to win it all.

all kool aid all the time.
rvhoss
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10/22/2006  10:46 PM
Riley slowed the game down because his team wasn't as good as the other team.

standard basketball...if you're team isn't as good, limit possessions by slowing the game down.
all kool aid all the time.
nyk4ever
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10/22/2006  11:11 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

explains why LB (old dog) couldn't make it in today's NBA (new tricks)

unless he back doors a current coach with a ready made contender that just needs that push to win it all.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Larry Brown was just in the finals 2 years in a row, before last year. The game doesn't change that quick.
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islesfan
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10/22/2006  11:21 PM
Hey dumbass, team's still have to play good defense to be successful. That's something that team's like the old Celts, Lakers and Pistons were great at. This Knicks team doesn't know what defense means and haven't their entire careers.

If today's NBA is about running and playing fast paced then why make a trade for Eddy Curry, an out of shape post player who needs to play in the half court. Plus he's a terrible defender who can't or won't do anything about quick players going to the basket.

The best part of that article is that if shows the Knicks to be one of the last teams in the East to make the transition. So once again we're behind the curve. It only took Isiah 3 1/2 years to figure this out. Of course you Kool Aid drinkers will tell us that this was Isiah's plan all along.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Allanfan20
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10/22/2006  11:22 PM
If the Knicks had a bunch of "Thugs" and were winning basketball games, you'd be the biggest thug cheerleader on the face of the planet, RV.

If it's good enough to play winning basketball, then it's good basketball.
“I couldn’t dunk it so I tried to, you know, just touched it.”- OG Anunoby
EnySpree
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10/23/2006  3:44 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

explains why LB (old dog) couldn't make it in today's NBA (new tricks)

unless he back doors a current coach with a ready made contender that just needs that push to win it all.

That's exactly what he did in Detroit!
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rvhoss
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10/23/2006  9:57 AM
unless he back doors a current coach with a ready made contender that just needs that push to win it all.

all kool aid all the time.
oohah
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10/23/2006  10:02 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

unless he back doors a current coach with a ready made contender that just needs that push to win it all.


LB backdoored us last season, if you know what I mean.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
martin
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10/23/2006  10:03 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

unless he back doors a current coach with a ready made contender that just needs that push to win it all.

dude, you add nothing with posts like this. You've been around enough to have heard about 50 agruments against it. Care to post without bringing LB into the picture EVERY FREAKIN TIME?

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BasketballJones
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10/23/2006  11:33 AM
What the Knicks need are not more thugs but more hugs.
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BlueSeats
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10/23/2006  11:44 AM
Posted by BasketballJones:

What the Knicks need are not more thugs but more hugs.


Our new leader:




Killa4luv
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10/23/2006  11:45 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by rvhoss:

unless he back doors a current coach with a ready made contender that just needs that push to win it all.

dude, you add nothing with posts like this. You've been around enough to have heard about 50 agruments against it. Care to post without bringing LB into the picture EVERY FREAKIN TIME?

Martin I don't see you challenging others to show some sembelance of balance when dealing with Steph. I mean we are getting threads started about things Steph months ago in the summer. You don' think LB is germane to this conversation about the east and style of play?

Isles talks about how long it took the Knicks to figure this out as if it is the correct and only way to go. Of course he does this to bash Isiah. However, he conviniently forgets that if in fact this is something that ought to have been figured out, we had a coach last year that also didn't get it, although I'm sure there will be some half-baked explanation for that.

martin
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10/23/2006  11:57 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by martin:
Posted by rvhoss:

unless he back doors a current coach with a ready made contender that just needs that push to win it all.

dude, you add nothing with posts like this. You've been around enough to have heard about 50 agruments against it. Care to post without bringing LB into the picture EVERY FREAKIN TIME?

Martin I don't see you challenging others to show some sembelance of balance when dealing with Steph. I mean we are getting threads started about things Steph months ago in the summer. You don' think LB is germane to this conversation about the east and style of play?

Isles talks about how long it took the Knicks to figure this out as if it is the correct and only way to go. Of course he does this to bash Isiah. However, he conviniently forgets that if in fact this is something that ought to have been figured out, we had a coach last year that also didn't get it, although I'm sure there will be some half-baked explanation for that.

you miss my point... what does LB taking over Detroit have to do with this thread. At all?

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wsdm
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10/23/2006  12:20 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by martin:
Posted by rvhoss:

unless he back doors a current coach with a ready made contender that just needs that push to win it all.

dude, you add nothing with posts like this. You've been around enough to have heard about 50 agruments against it. Care to post without bringing LB into the picture EVERY FREAKIN TIME?

Martin I don't see you challenging others to show some sembelance of balance when dealing with Steph. I mean we are getting threads started about things Steph months ago in the summer. You don' think LB is germane to this conversation about the east and style of play?

Isles talks about how long it took the Knicks to figure this out as if it is the correct and only way to go. Of course he does this to bash Isiah. However, he conviniently forgets that if in fact this is something that ought to have been figured out, we had a coach last year that also didn't get it, although I'm sure there will be some half-baked explanation for that.

I gotta agree with Killa and RV here. If it was someone complimenting LB often, I don't think you would have told them to stop.
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Allanfan20
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10/23/2006  2:27 PM
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by martin:
Posted by rvhoss:

unless he back doors a current coach with a ready made contender that just needs that push to win it all.

dude, you add nothing with posts like this. You've been around enough to have heard about 50 agruments against it. Care to post without bringing LB into the picture EVERY FREAKIN TIME?

Martin I don't see you challenging others to show some sembelance of balance when dealing with Steph. I mean we are getting threads started about things Steph months ago in the summer. You don' think LB is germane to this conversation about the east and style of play?

Isles talks about how long it took the Knicks to figure this out as if it is the correct and only way to go. Of course he does this to bash Isiah. However, he conviniently forgets that if in fact this is something that ought to have been figured out, we had a coach last year that also didn't get it, although I'm sure there will be some half-baked explanation for that.

I gotta agree with Killa and RV here. If it was someone complimenting LB often, I don't think you would have told them to stop.

Who is actually complimenting Larry Brown? Nobody here appreciates the job he did last season. You should know the arguement by now, you've been a poster here for years.
“I couldn’t dunk it so I tried to, you know, just touched it.”- OG Anunoby
wsdm
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10/23/2006  2:34 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by martin:
Posted by rvhoss:

unless he back doors a current coach with a ready made contender that just needs that push to win it all.

dude, you add nothing with posts like this. You've been around enough to have heard about 50 agruments against it. Care to post without bringing LB into the picture EVERY FREAKIN TIME?

Martin I don't see you challenging others to show some sembelance of balance when dealing with Steph. I mean we are getting threads started about things Steph months ago in the summer. You don' think LB is germane to this conversation about the east and style of play?

Isles talks about how long it took the Knicks to figure this out as if it is the correct and only way to go. Of course he does this to bash Isiah. However, he conviniently forgets that if in fact this is something that ought to have been figured out, we had a coach last year that also didn't get it, although I'm sure there will be some half-baked explanation for that.

I gotta agree with Killa and RV here. If it was someone complimenting LB often, I don't think you would have told them to stop.

Who is actually complimenting Larry Brown? Nobody here appreciates the job he did last season. You should know the arguement by now, you've been a poster here for years.

I've been a poster here for 2 months. Plenty of people compliment Brown for his career and plenty say he had the right ideas last year (a compliment) but the players just weren't committed to them or to winning basketball. The only point is I'm surprised RV would actually get a warning for what he said.
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BasketballJones
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10/23/2006  3:00 PM
I thought the rule was: "Every thread must ultimately end up as a discussion of Larry Brown or Stephon Marbury". Didn't I see that in the Ultimate Knicks FAQ somewhere?
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martin
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10/23/2006  3:04 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

I thought the rule was: "Every thread must ultimately end up as a discussion of Larry Brown or Stephon Marbury". Didn't I see that in the Ultimate Knicks FAQ somewhere?

hmmm, good point. I take back what I said earlier.
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NYK3
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10/23/2006  3:16 PM
I dont understand why all these teams are trying to be the like the Suns? What exactly have the Suns won? They havent made it out of the Western Conference....DEFENSE STILL WINS
I wasn't born with enough middle fingers!!!
the age of the Thug is gone...

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