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knicks dont need a point guard
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EnySpree
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10/14/2006  6:39 PM
I know it was one game but you don't need to see more than that to understand what's going on here.

Isiah describes it as having a push man. I love that too.

If you saw last nights game everybody that got the rock started the break at least once. Lee, Richardson, balkman, Jared, all led the break at least once aside from the guards. It looked great.

Bringing me to Marcus Williams. How come the knicks are the stupid ones for not taking him when 19 teams passed on him that actually needed a point guard? The knicks currently have 4 guys that are supposed to be point guards. Marcus Williams probably is better that all of the knicks guard as far as passing but that's in a point guard dominated offense. Knicks right now don't have a point guard dominated offense. If anything the knicks play like themselves. The knicks hardly took an outside jumper. Most of the points were in the paint.

Stop saying the knicks are suns East. I think before long the knicks will be copied. Right now I think the knicks are a unique team. With no point guard.
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oohah
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10/14/2006  7:08 PM
Williams looked good, but I did not like the score-first mentality he displayed in the context of the team we already have. I am assumimng that he will play more like a distributor during the regular season.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
joec32033
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10/14/2006  7:14 PM
Posted by oohah:

Williams looked good, but I did not like the score-first mentality he displayed in the context of the team we already have. I am assumimng that he will play more like a distributor during the regular season.

oohah

Stephon Marbury averages 20 and 8 from the PG spot, and he is a great PG.

Marcus Williams scores 21 and 7 and you don't like his shoot first mentality?
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4949
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10/14/2006  7:15 PM
EnySpree, why did you make two exact threads. Post on the other one.
I'll never trust this' team again.
EnySpree
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10/14/2006  7:59 PM
Mistake. Cut and paste the comments to the other one. This thread is closed!
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EnySpree
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10/14/2006  8:02 PM
This thread is closed!
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oohah
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10/14/2006  10:16 PM
Stephon Marbury averages 20 and 8 from the PG spot, and he is a great PG.

Marcus Williams scores 21 and 7 and you don't like his shoot first mentality?

"Williams looked good, but I did not like the score-first mentality he displayed in the context of the team we already have. I am assuming that he will play more like a distributor during the regular season."

I've never called Marbury a great PG.

oohah



Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
joec32033
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10/14/2006  10:22 PM
Posted by oohah:
Stephon Marbury averages 20 and 8 from the PG spot, and he is a great PG.

Marcus Williams scores 21 and 7 and you don't like his shoot first mentality?

"Williams looked good, but I did not like the score-first mentality he displayed in the context of the team we already have. I am assuming that he will play more like a distributor during the regular season."

I've never called Marbury a great PG.

oohah

Not in this thread but in the past you have uttered the words that he has to be a good passer because he averages 8 assists...you know you did.Don't make me beg Martin and Anrew for a search feature............again.
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rvhoss
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10/14/2006  10:35 PM
who know's...maybe he'll sign with us because we will be under the cap then.

The knicks give the Brooklyn Nets cap relief by truly sending marbury home.
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oohah
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10/14/2006  10:57 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by oohah:
Stephon Marbury averages 20 and 8 from the PG spot, and he is a great PG.

Marcus Williams scores 21 and 7 and you don't like his shoot first mentality?

"Williams looked good, but I did not like the score-first mentality he displayed in the context of the team we already have. I am assuming that he will play more like a distributor during the regular season."

I've never called Marbury a great PG.

oohah

Not in this thread but in the past you have uttered the words that he has to be a good passer because he averages 8 assists...you know you did.Don't make me beg Martin and Anrew for a search feature............again.


I want the search feature worse than you do!

Anyway, Marbury is a good passer. In his earlier days I remember him throwing some outstanding passes. Also when he first got to the Knicks. He is too enamored with his scoring ability, but he is certainly not a bad passer.

But he is not a great PG, which is something different. He has all the potential to be, but so did Kenny Anderson, you know?

oohah




[Edited by - oohah on 14-10-2006 10:58 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
joec32033
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10/14/2006  11:07 PM
I want the search feature worse than you do!

Anyway, Marbury is a good passer. In his earlier days I remember him throwing some outstanding passes. Also when he first got to the Knicks. He is too enamored with his scoring ability, but he is certainly not a bad passer.

But he is not a great PG, which is something different. He has all the potential to be, but so did Kenny Anderson, you know?

oohah

I agree, but Marcus is also a very good passer that really seemed to run the Net offense well. I just thought it weird how you said that Marcus's "score first mentality" wouldn't be the best fit for this team, but we have a score first PG in Stephon.

Speaking of Anderson, he could have been absolutely sick. You want to talk about the second coming of Isiah Thomas? Kenny had all types of potential, speed, and GREAT court vision.
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oohah
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10/14/2006  11:19 PM
I agree, but Marcus is also a very good passer that really seemed to run the Net offense well. I just thought it weird how you said that Marcus's "score first mentality" wouldn't be the best fit for this team, but we have a score first PG in Stephon.

That is the thing Joe, we have too many score-first PG's already. I am not expecting him to play that way during the regular season, because that is not what the Nets need from him.
Speaking of Anderson, he could have been absolutely sick. You want to talk about the second coming of Isiah Thomas? Kenny had all types of potential, speed, and GREAT court vision.

Pretty sad, I agree.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
joec32033
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10/14/2006  11:26 PM
That is the thing Joe, we have too many score-first PG's already. I am not expecting him to play that way during the regular season, because that is not what the Nets need from him.

That is where I disagree. Not only is he learning behind Kidd(which he wouldn't be here, I grant you)but his strength cpoming out of college was his pure PG ability. He was widely specualted to be the absolute best pre PG prospect (and NBA ready PG prospect, if I recall) in the draft. He ran a great UConn team with quite a few scorers. And he ran the offense quite smoothly.

I just don't see where he is the type of PG you described. Fact is we have 3 PG's that are exactly the same(Francis, Steph, Nate) and 4 if you count Crawford although he is actually learning to run an offense.

Here's a hypothetical for you- If we were able to trade Francis before the draft and the draft unfolded the same way, do you take Marcus?

I think a backcourt of Williams and Crawford in a few years would have been VERY promising.
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simrud
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10/14/2006  11:29 PM
Our crap is the best crap, and soon everybody will copy our crap because we are the coolest!
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
oohah
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10/14/2006  11:39 PM
That is where I disagree. Not only is he learning behind Kidd(which he wouldn't be here, I grant you)but his strength cpoming out of college was his pure PG ability. He was widely specualted to be the absolute best pre PG prospect (and NBA ready PG prospect, if I recall) in the draft. He ran a great UConn team with quite a few scorers. And he ran the offense quite smoothly.

I totally understand and agree. What I am saying is the way he played yesterday he looked like another skilled shoot-first pg. In Summer league he had some 20 shot games I believe.

But, like I said, I do not expect him to play that way during the season.
Here's a hypothetical for you- If we were able to trade Francis before the draft and the draft unfolded the same way, do you take Marcus?

I think a backcourt of Williams and Crawford in a few years would have been VERY promising.

No I would not have. I think he can be a solid NBA player, but I don't think he is destined to be a star, and I can't stand the Mark Jackson comparison, because Jackson was my favorite player, and he ain't no Mark Jackson.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
joec32033
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10/14/2006  11:50 PM
No I would not have. I think he can be a solid NBA player, but I don't think he is destined to be a star, and I can't stand the Mark Jackson comparison, because Jackson was my favorite player, and he ain't no Mark Jackson.

Never heard that comparison. I think Marcus is a MUCH better athlete than Jax ever was and isn't nearly as skilled a passer yet.

I would compare him to someone like a Derek Harper or someone like Avery Johnson. I think he is a solid floor general who can score if he needs to. I think Marcus and Deron Williams are very similiar except Marcus has more scoring ability.
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Ira
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10/14/2006  11:54 PM
Maybe we did blow it by not picking Marcus. One thing, however, needs to be considered. He was only even available where we picked because of character issues. Drafting a player with a personal history like his is a risk. Teams before us didn't take that risk. We didn't either. The Nets did. We'll see how it works out.

It's clear that we did get good value where we picked in Balkman. He doesn't have the ability that Williams has, but he doesn't have the character issues. All in all, I'd say Isaiah made a good call.
We'll see how it works out.
joec32033
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10/14/2006  11:58 PM
Posted by Ira:

Maybe we did blow it by not picking Marcus. One thing, however, needs to be considered. He was only even available where we picked because of character issues. Drafting a player with a personal history like his is a risk. Teams before us didn't take that risk. We didn't either. The Nets did. We'll see how it works out.

It's clear that we did get good value where we picked in Balkman. He doesn't have the ability that Williams has, but he doesn't have the character issues. All in all, I'd say Isaiah made a good call.
We'll see how it works out.
Balkman is not value until he does it in the season. Skita averaged 25 pts per game in summer league and had a decent camp that year. And we STILL could have had Balkman at 29 if we drafted Williams at 20.

He is now on his 3rd team in 2 years just trying to make the cut.


[Edited by - joec32033 on 10-14-2006 11:59 PM]
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oohah
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10/15/2006  12:02 AM
Never heard that comparison. I think Marcus is a MUCH better athlete than Jax ever was and isn't nearly as skilled a passer yet.

It has been floated around here a bit, and yesterday Clyde kept saying it.

I am not sure that Williams is sooooo much better of an athlete, I think Jackson was better than given credit for. One time, on the Knicks, I saw him go one-handed down the lane and jam it. True story.

And the way he posted up and got rebounds took athletic ability, just not the kind that makes for good defense.

But I would totally agree with you on Jax being the better passer by far, but that is not a knock on Williams, Jackson was one of the best passers to ever play the game. Williams is still a pretty good passer.

Did you see a couple of the nice passes from Jay Williams yesterday? I thought he had the best pass of the night even though the dude he threw it to did not convert (Moore I believe.) But he looks like he has lost all his explosiveness.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
joec32033
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10/15/2006  12:23 AM
It has been floated around here a bit, and yesterday Clyde kept saying it.

I am not sure that Williams is sooooo much better of an athlete, I think Jackson was better than given credit for. One time, on the Knicks, I saw him go one-handed down the lane and jam it. True story.

And the way he posted up and got rebounds took athletic ability, just not the kind that makes for good defense.

Clyde's probably fogotten more about NBA basketball, than I'll know, but that comparison seems like a reach to me. Jax was a decent athlete when he came into the league, but still not great. He was slow, and got into the lane more because of his great ball handling than anything else, IMO.
Did you see a couple of the nice passes from Jay Williams yesterday? I thought he had the best pass of the night even though the dude he threw it to did not convert (Moore I believe.) But he looks like he has lost all his explosiveness.
Now that is one kid I can compare to Jax. Another is Tinsley. But back to Williams, he was a great floor general along with being a superior athlete(hence why he went #2). Right now I think he can be a very good backup. Once he gets used to his limited abilities and starts using his head, I think he'll be an above average starter.
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knicks dont need a point guard
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