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Why I think having Frye on the first team will hurt his development
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King1
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10/5/2006  8:56 PM
I think Channing will suffer if he starts at the four. You have a center that cant pass and you cant run a uptempo game. You have two guards that will dominate the ball and they will get their shots. I see the second team moving the ball better, running the floor and playing the game in a more fluid fashion. I think the second team will be able to play with anyone else second team this year. The problem is how far will they be behind when they get in the game?
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Silverfuel
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10/5/2006  9:00 PM
What should the 1st team front court look like?
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King1
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10/5/2006  9:11 PM
I am not saying he shouldnt start I just think he is too good to be the the 4th option in shots.
bigbeast
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10/5/2006  9:16 PM
I think Fryes game is taylor made to play along side Marbury (pick and pop).

I agree playing alongside David Lee (who is an exceptional passer)would definitely help Frye. But Nate isn't looking to get anyone invlove either. I think Frye should slide over to the 5 and get some minutes with the second team.
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BlueSeats
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10/5/2006  9:16 PM
In normal situations (like forget about last year) it's not all that many minutes each game that you run distinct second unit teams. It's usually a mix of players. So what we'll probably see is Curry and Francis come out, with Crawford and Lee coming in. Frye shifts to center, Marbury shifts to SG. The next guy to come in is Jalen or Nate, for Steph, etc.

I suspect our quicker squad will outscore our starters, but what will be interesting to see is who will close games.

And I think we'll miss Butler. Not like I expect him to explode as a player, but he'd be a good up-tempo backup. James wont exactly cut it there.
nixluva
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10/5/2006  9:41 PM
Posted by King1:

I think Channing will suffer if he starts at the four. You have a center that cant pass and you cant run a uptempo game. You have two guards that will dominate the ball and they will get their shots. I see the second team moving the ball better, running the floor and playing the game in a more fluid fashion. I think the second team will be able to play with anyone else second team this year. The problem is how far will they be behind when they get in the game?

I actually don't think we'll see a lot of slow starts like last year. Just take the games during the Streak for instance. We started Steph, Nate, Lee, AD and Curry. Not too different than starting Steph, Francis, Jared. Nate is a scorer like Francis, Jared more of a passer like Lee. Jan. 6 vs. Wash. Frye off the bench scored 30 pts in 26 mins and Steph played 38 mins and Nate played 33 mins. Those two were the only PG's in the game and combined they had 15 or the 19 team assists. Jan. 8 vs. Sea, Frye had 15 in 21 mins off the bench. In that game Steph played 44 mins and Nate 27 mins and combined they had 19 of the 23 team assists. Now this was without Jamal. I think it's very likely that similar things will happen this year. Let's not forget that under normal circumstances your SG isn't really getting a lot of assists, but on our team our SG's are actually PG's too. Frye is gonna get more than the minutes he got in these games. He stands to have good production from what i'm thinking.
Rich
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10/5/2006  9:47 PM
It's up to Isiah to run plays for him.
Allanfan20
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10/5/2006  10:20 PM
King, I don't disagree with you. I see nothing wrong with giving him 30ish minutes a game off the bench. Plus, I think a starting frontcourt of Q, Lee, and Curry can be quite tough to beat, if Curry is up to par of course. Then you got Frye and Jared coming off the bench. Not bad.
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nyk4ever
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10/6/2006  12:08 AM
Posted by King1:

I think Channing will suffer if he starts at the four. You have a center that cant pass and you cant run a uptempo game. You have two guards that will dominate the ball and they will get their shots. I see the second team moving the ball better, running the floor and playing the game in a more fluid fashion. I think the second team will be able to play with anyone else second team this year. The problem is how far will they be behind when they get in the game?

King, I've been saying this ALL offseason. Channing played VERY well last year with Craw and Nate and I think it should stay that way. It's funny, everytime I even remotely mentioned this, people jumped right down my throat. Frye's game fits MUCH better with the 2nd team and not the first becuase with Francis and Marbury dominating the ball and not looking to set others up, Channing is going to be running around out there and getting extremely frustrated. I also think his lack of rebounding, coupled with Curry's is a problem for the starting lineup, I think DLee is much better suited to be a in the KNICKS starting lineup because of his hustle and rebounding prowess. I definately agree with you 100%

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 10-06-2006 12:09 AM]
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gunsnewing
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10/6/2006  12:20 AM
I agree Start Lee. The starting backcourt is a disaster you don't want to waste Channings skills as he stands around watching marbs, francis & curry go to work. At least Lee doesn't need the ball to be effective. Frye is not a good enough rebounder so he is virtually useless in the starting lineup
rvhoss
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10/6/2006  3:30 AM
you guys are nuts.
in an effort to hope the knicks don't make the playoffs, you are suggesting we bench our lottery player (and possible franchise center) in favor of a player picked 30th that same round.

Stop thinking like larry brown. Start thinking like Pat Riley and Phil Jackson.

You go with your best players and design a system that fits them.

Frye and Curry are our best players, Lee coming off the bench is the smartest option.

I noticed this was a pretty small thread....now I see why.

you guys are crazy.
all kool aid all the time.
TheGame
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10/6/2006  3:35 AM
I think Fyre will be fine in the starting lineup. I expect his rebounding to improve from last year and I think the pick and pop will be an effective play for us (I think Marbury will do a good job of distributing the ball this year with IT coaching him). Plus, I like the idea of sitting Curry and letting Fyre move to center. Fyre is in better shape than curry and can probably play 40 minutes a game. You give him 25-30 minutes as the starting PF and let him play 10-15 minutes as the center. In this way we can play Curry 30-35 minutes and keep him fresh for the 4th quarter, but keep our best big man (who I think will turn out to be Fyre) out on the court for most of the game. Nate/crawford, Crawford/Francis, Q, Lee, and Fyre is a pretty good second unit.
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oohah
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10/6/2006  4:49 AM
Who is most likely to be the Knicks' best front-court player this season?

Frye.

Now let's get serious.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
joec32033
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10/6/2006  4:52 AM
Posted by oohah:

Who is most likely to be the Knicks' best front-court player this season?

Frye.

Now let's get serious.

oohah

If Lee actually added a conisistent jumper and got quick enough to play a little 3 also, he has the potential to be a better all-around player than Frye. If even half of the excuses made up for Curry are true an he does get better, he blows away both Lee and Frye.
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oohah
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10/6/2006  5:41 AM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by oohah:

Who is most likely to be the Knicks' best front-court player this season?

Frye.

Now let's get serious.

oohah

If Lee actually added a conisistent jumper and got quick enough to play a little 3 also, he has the potential to be a better all-around player than Frye. If even half of the excuses made up for Curry are true an he does get better, he blows away both Lee and Frye.

Hey if Lee gets his handle to Marbury levels, he may become the white Magic Johnson!

Just breaking horns Joe.

Lee or Curry becoming better players than Frye is possible, but not likely.

oohah



Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
joec32033
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10/6/2006  5:47 AM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by oohah:

Who is most likely to be the Knicks' best front-court player this season?

Frye.

Now let's get serious.

oohah

If Lee actually added a conisistent jumper and got quick enough to play a little 3 also, he has the potential to be a better all-around player than Frye. If even half of the excuses made up for Curry are true an he does get better, he blows away both Lee and Frye.

Hey if Lee gets his handle to Marbury levels, he may become the white Magic Johnson!

Just breaking horns Joe.

Lee or Curry becoming better players than Frye is possible, but not likely.

oohah

I admit Lee is a long shot at being a better player than Frye(BUT, IMO, he is a more all-around player than Frye right now). As for Curry I think Fye and himself are comparable now and Curry has a vast amount more potential than Frye.

After seeing Frye play, I keep comparing his game to what Rasheed Wallace does now-18-ish pts about 7-ish rebounds-but without the defense. Curry has the ability to simply dominate the paint and dominate a game. I don't think Frye can do that.
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TheGame
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10/6/2006  6:01 AM
I like Curry alot and will not argue that he cannot become a dominating center in this league, but he needs to learn how to pass out of the double team and add more to his post game before we could really run an offense through him. Fyre has an awesome post game. He has a good jumphook and can really use the glass to improve the percentage of his shot. Plus, he has the mid-range jumpshot. This guy is the total package on offense and he seems capable of passing out of a double team. If he can improve his defense and rebounding, which I think will come with added strength as he gets older, I see no reason why he cannot be as effective, if not more so, than Curry. He won't be as unstoppable as Curry could be because he lacks that kind of bulk, but his overall game would be superior to Curry's. I am getting excited thinking about the frontcourt we can have if Curry, Fyre, and Lee continue to improve. Add in Crawford, Nate, and Jeffries, and our 24 and under squad is looking pretty strong.
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Silverfuel
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10/6/2006  6:58 AM
Posted by oohah:

Who is most likely to be the Knicks' best front-court player this season?

Frye.

Now let's get serious.

oohah
What about Frye splitting time with Curry and Lee but coming off the bench? It wont be easy to avoid Steve, Steph and Curry being on the floor at the same time as Frye but if we can take out Steve or Curry for Frye, we might be in better shape? I agree with what King1 said that Frye might not get to do as much as the 4th option. Plus, I think Lee fits perfect with Curry cause Lee can rebound anything.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
oohah
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10/6/2006  7:00 AM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by oohah:

Who is most likely to be the Knicks' best front-court player this season?

Frye.

Now let's get serious.

oohah
What about Frye splitting time with Curry and Lee but coming off the bench? It wont be easy to avoid Steve, Steph and Curry being on the floor at the same time as Frye but if we can take out Steve or Curry for Frye, we might be in better shape? I agree with what King1 said that Frye might not get to do as much as the 4th option. Plus, I think Lee fits perfect with Curry cause Lee can rebound anything.



I just think you should start your best players unless the team is so good you can afford the luxury of bringing one of your top 5 off the bench.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
fishmike
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10/6/2006  7:12 AM
Posted by King1:

I am not saying he shouldnt start I just think he is too good to be the the 4th option in shots.
I have been saying that, for some of the reasons you mentioned

The main reason I dont like starting him is he and Curry and both weak rebounders. I've been saying for awhile that Lee (better rebounder)should start at the 4 with Frye coming off the bench as the backup 5 and some 4 as well.

While it might hurt his threat of being an all star the x's and o's make sense.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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