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Reading between the lines is not good..............
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Nalod
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10/4/2006  8:48 AM
I like the young guys, I even think Francis could be a nice surprise, but there is this one element that nags at me..............

And when I think its going to be different this year I lose faith.

Isiah could get buried by Steph
Ken Berger
NBA


October 4, 2006

CHARLESTON, S.C.

As the first sounds of basketballs bouncing and sneakers squeaking resonated in the Knicks' little practice oasis, a quaint gym on the College of Charleston campus, it seemed pretty clear yesterday what has to happen for Isiah Thomas to keep his job.

The Hall-of-Fame point guard turned coach on the hot seat needs to look no further than the bald-headed enigma wearing No. 3 and $15 sneakers for the clue to achieving the "significant improvement" he is under orders to attain.

Given that the aforementioned point guard is Stephon Marbury, this fact no doubt intrigues Thomas, who after all, brought him to the Knicks in the first place.

But it also should worry him, because now Thomas has to do what so many before him couldn't.

Now he has to coach him.

Do not count Bobby Cremins among the frustrated coaches in Marbury's wake, but let's be honest: Cremins had Marbury for only one season at Georgia Tech, good for a Sweet 16 appearance before Marbury went off to the NBA.

But there was Cremins holding court yesterday, in the gym where he now coaches his college team, explaining how Marbury should be coached.

"You gotta let him play," Cremins said, repeating it twice more before adding, "And you gotta to teach him. Steph's a tough kid. You can't take away his game. You gotta let him go ... You gotta let him do his thing."

After producing the worst statistical averages of his career on a team that lost a franchise-record 59 games, Marbury believes it will be different under Thomas. He mentioned how Cremins and Flip Saunders are the only coaches he's had since high school who let him "do his thing." Will Thomas?

"Definitely," he said, "It'll be like that." Why?

"Because I know what he wants," Marbury said.

He couldn't resist taking another shot at Larry Brown, who at that very moment was in New York trying to get $53.5 million more of Cablevision's money.

"It's more free flowing and free going," Marbury said of Thomas' first practice. "You don't have somebody who couldn't handle the ball telling you, 'Don't do this, don't do that.'"

Apparently, in their tumultuous year together, Brown never got around to telling Marbury that he was the ABA's career assists leader ... as a point guard.

Anyway, in trying to appease Brown, Marbury said: "I allowed myself to look like a person who never played basketball at this level before ... I should've been playing like I normally play, and for why I get paid the money that I get paid."

For the record, Thomas hasn't actually told Marbury what he wants, and doesn't have to, according to Marbury. "He knows how I play," he said.

Say what you want about Thomas, but he is not naive. He understands that a team is as good as its point guard, or as good as its best player, and that Marbury is both for the Knicks.

It's easy for Marbury's detractors to point out that he hasn't won a playoff series, and to trumpet the success of all the teams he's left. Despite all that, I am willing to give Marbury another chance. But I have the luxury of choosing. Thomas does not.

He is stuck with Marbury, by his own doing. And if he wants to be coaching the Knicks after the All-Star break, Thomas has to somehow transform Marbury into the player he has yet to prove that he is.

"I don't think it's all predicated on how I play," Marbury said.

And with that, on Day 1, Marbury pointed the finger - not at a teammate or coach, but at the problem itself. The one person who holds the fate of the Knicks and their coach in his hands doesn't seem to realize it.
Copyright 2006 Newsday Inc.
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VDesai
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10/4/2006  9:12 AM
Mabury has to just stop talking to the media.
TMS
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10/4/2006  9:52 AM
hey Marbs... take a friendly word of advice from your ol' pal


After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bippity10
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10/4/2006  10:15 AM
Mabs just needs to play. Noone feels bad for him. He didn't go through a war. He played for a tough coach. Now suck it up and move on. Thirty years old and still hasn't learned that people don't want to hear his mouth and his excuses they just want him to win.
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islesfan
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10/4/2006  10:20 AM
Is anyone else relieved that Starbury is going into this season feeling that he can do whatever he wants on the basketball court?

I mean really, why argue with success?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
SugarRayRichardson
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10/4/2006  10:20 AM
I'm giving Marbs a clean slate for a new season but I agree its in th best interest of the team for Marbs to stop talking to the media. You cant go 2 days even in the offseason without hearing from him.
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
Bippity10
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10/4/2006  10:24 AM
Posted by islesfan:

Is anyone else relieved that Starbury is going into this season feeling that he can do whatever he wants on the basketball court?

I mean really, why argue with success?

That seems to be the theme. Wondering what Stevie is thinking. I'm picturing Houston with cuttino and Stevie only instead of hugging each other they will be trying to stab each other.
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nixluva
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10/4/2006  11:19 AM
Steph isn't like the guys in this league who simply just put up shot after shot. Like AI or Arenas. He's more of a passer than those guys. His career he's avg'd about 16 shots per game. He actually wants to score AND pass. I would think that you guys would know by now what Steph is really about. The way he was playing during the streak is more him than anything else. During that time he was playing the way i'm used to seeing him play and the team benefitted from that. Team scoring and assists were up. The morale was good. He IS NOT a detriment to winning. Not if the team around him is able to do their part, which I think this team is ready to do.

Francis is a tough one to figure, since I'm less familiar with him. I can only hope that he will return to the kind of dynamic play that i've seen from him in the past. Perhaps a bit more in control, tho. Maybe he's grown some from his early days. We'll see.

rvhoss
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10/4/2006  11:28 AM
I'd like to see one of marbury or francis on the floor at all times and not so concerned with seeing both of them.

If they get exposed early, I don't see isiah sticking with it until we are down 20.

He's had some tough coaches in his past, and he coaches in that same manner.

Put up or shut up.

He's not afraid to bench anybody, anytime for any reason.

And for those that think he won't bench marbury or francis or curry or anybody to save the knicks and his job, you've got another thing coming and we are all doomed.

Brown did the right thing benching players, he just lost track of time and forgot to put them back into the game until it was too late.

Zeke is younger and smarter than that.
all kool aid all the time.
Bippity10
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10/4/2006  11:50 AM
Posted by nixluva:

Steph isn't like the guys in this league who simply just put up shot after shot. Like AI or Arenas. He's more of a passer than those guys. His career he's avg'd about 16 shots per game. He actually wants to score AND pass. I would think that you guys would know by now what Steph is really about. The way he was playing during the streak is more him than anything else. During that time he was playing the way i'm used to seeing him play and the team benefitted from that. Team scoring and assists were up. The morale was good. He IS NOT a detriment to winning. Not if the team around him is able to do their part, which I think this team is ready to do.

Francis is a tough one to figure, since I'm less familiar with him. I can only hope that he will return to the kind of dynamic play that i've seen from him in the past. Perhaps a bit more in control, tho. Maybe he's grown some from his early days. We'll see.

Again with the over-reacting defensive posture. Just discuss.

My concern is not about talent with Steph at all. He's a great scorer. He gets on a role when his passing is on point. No one has ever disputed his talent. My thing with him is that when a coach asks him to do anything outside of his comfort zone he struggles and seems to have a problme with trying to learn the new thing. In the past this inability to adjust has lead to some battles with coaches and with us, struggles down the stretch.
He IS NOT a detriment to winning. Not if the team around him is able to do their part, which I think this team is ready to do.

This is the problme with Steph. He has an inability to step it up. All we hear from you Nixluva is how good his teammates are. Then when the team loses it's because his teammates stink. It's time to put all those excuses aside(even if some of his excuses are valid), and take it upon himself to step up his game and help his teammates out.

Now please tell me what is out of line with what I said above.
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Bippity10
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10/4/2006  11:57 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

I'd like to see one of marbury or francis on the floor at all times and not so concerned with seeing both of them.

If they get exposed early, I don't see isiah sticking with it until we are down 20.

He's had some tough coaches in his past, and he coaches in that same manner.

Put up or shut up.

He's not afraid to bench anybody, anytime for any reason.

And for those that think he won't bench marbury or francis or curry or anybody to save the knicks and his job, you've got another thing coming and we are all doomed.

Brown did the right thing benching players, he just lost track of time and forgot to put them back into the game until it was too late.

Zeke is younger and smarter than that.

That's the hope. I think the right thing to do for the Knicks is for Isiah to do exactly as you say. But remember NY and the pressure of NY has a way of changing things. Hall of fame coaches become losers and star players fade into bolivian. It's definitely a possibility

You did raise a good point and could have done it without trying to point out the "pessimist" gloom and doom like the negativity police seem to do with every post. Very few have predicted that Isiah will not discipline Steph or Stevie. Most are wondering and discussing what are ALL THE POSSIBILITIES. The possibility is definitely there and it's okay to discuss that possibility of Zeke coaching for himself as opposed to our future. Or is discussing such thing considered a section 19 in the code of possitivity punishable by banishment from UK?

[Edited by - Bippity10 on 10-04-2006 11:58 AM]
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rvhoss
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10/4/2006  12:25 PM
you da man bip.
all kool aid all the time.
BasketballJones
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10/4/2006  12:27 PM
I think "negativity police" sounds kinda negative. May I suggest the "positivity patrol"?
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Bippity10
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10/4/2006  12:32 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

I think "negativity police" sounds kinda negative. May I suggest the "positivity patrol"?

Sounds good. We should also come up with a logo for them. Someone get on photoshop. We will review all suggestions.
I just hope that people will like me
BasketballJones
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10/4/2006  12:35 PM
I prefer "homers" and "haters". "optomists" and "pessimists" sounds a bit too effete to me.
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Bippity10
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10/4/2006  12:43 PM
Its quicker to type I guess. I just don't like reaching for the quotes that are needed to make pessimist really stand out and become "PESSIMIST". I have a bad pinky and the quotes are tough for me.

It's all on me I guess. I just have gotten bored with every discussion turning from a mature discussion to "your negative", "I'm positive" "you hate the knicks" "I love the knicks" nonsense, and then they go on and agree with what I said two seconds later. The season needs to start now. I need conversations!!! I am calling for a new revolution. I say unite against the positivity patrol. Unite!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure I will be killed for that above paragraph.

[Edited by - Bippity10 on 10-04-2006 12:43 PM]
I just hope that people will like me
EnySpree
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10/4/2006  1:10 PM
Posted by VDesai:

Mabury has to just stop talking to the media.

I wish he would shut up too. He is just as dumb as a-rod. That's why I love jeter. Jeter always knows what to say. That's why he is the captains captain.

Speaking of which, who do the knicks have to speak up for the players that can't speak or just shouldn't speak? The best talkers have been channing, lee, Nate and craw.
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martin
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10/4/2006  1:17 PM
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by VDesai:

Mabury has to just stop talking to the media.

I wish he would shut up too. He is just as dumb as a-rod. That's why I love jeter. Jeter always knows what to say. That's why he is the captains captain.

Speaking of which, who do the knicks have to speak up for the players that can't speak or just shouldn't speak? The best talkers have been channing, lee, Nate and craw.

Agreed... and I this speaks to the lack of leaders on the Knicks.
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fishmike
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10/4/2006  1:42 PM
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by VDesai:

Mabury has to just stop talking to the media.

I wish he would shut up too. He is just as dumb as a-rod. That's why I love jeter. Jeter always knows what to say. That's why he is the captains captain.

Speaking of which, who do the knicks have to speak up for the players that can't speak or just shouldn't speak? The best talkers have been channing, lee, Nate and craw.
hard to compare baseball and basketball but your pretty dead on here. Did you read the SI article where ARod was called out by Giambi? ARod knows ALL about how productive he's been, how many hits he has, his stats his stats his stats... its lame. Does Steph want to play "his way" or does he want to win? Francis said exactly the same crap when JVG took over. He bitched about his scoring average being down because JVG didnt want him chucking 3's. He bitched how fans came to see him play, and NOT to see JVG coach. Pop quiz... guess the one year Steve Francis made the post season, and the ONLY year he made it? YES!!!! It was under JVG.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
arkrud
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10/4/2006  1:52 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

I prefer "homers" and "haters". "optomists" and "pessimists" sounds a bit too effete to me.

What about "NowWinners" and "TeamBuilders"
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Reading between the lines is not good..............

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