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Nalod
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8/23/2006  9:33 AM
Shaq to Marbury: Let your play talk

BY KEN BERGER
Newsday Staff Writer

August 23, 2006

Shaquille O'Neal said Stephon Marbury should let his play speak for itself and speculated that the Knicks' point guard would have been better off playing another season for Larry Brown.

"If you say you're the best point guard in the world, now you have to come out and show that every night," O'Neal said on SportsNet New York. "The only time when I really say that is when I have a real big game. You never really heard me say I'm the best center to ever play the game. When you say that, you have to come out and show that every night, especially here in New York."

When asked before a game against the Nets during the 2004-05 season how he would match up with Jason Kidd, Marbury replied, "I'm the best point guard in the NBA."

O'Neal, in the city with Miami Heat teammate Alonzo Mourning for a charity event, said of Marbury's relationship with Brown, "You have to listen to somebody that's been there.

"If they know and understood that Larry Brown's been there - two years in a row - if you listen to a man like that, then he can take you to the next level," O'Neal said in the interview aired Monday.

Commenting on Brown's messy departure from the Knicks, Mourning said: "I don't like the fact where coaches can be made scapegoats ... If you do what the coach asks you to do, you're going to get results. I don't think L.B. was telling them the wrong things ... It was just a matter of how they responded to what he was saying or how he said it to them."

O'Neal said Marbury and his teammates would've been better off had Brown not been run off after one season.

"It wasn't until I met Phil [Jackson], and put my ego aside, and listened to what he had to say and understood it," O'Neal said. "So I think if those guys would have listened and had paid attention and understood, then they would have been better off."
Copyright 2006 Newsday Inc.
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Ira
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8/23/2006  9:56 AM
I think Shaq got it right. Nice thread.
OasisBU
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8/23/2006  10:18 AM
Yeah I would agree with Shaq on this one, but LB was at fault too for playing games. If he had been more professional, I think things would have gone a little differently - the players were at fault too though. There is enough blame to go around.

Its over though, hopefully they all learned from it and this season will be better.
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
TheGame
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8/23/2006  10:18 AM
IMO LB was on an agenda that involved more than gettting his players to play the "right way" as he puts it. I really don't think the players were not willing to listen to LB. In fact, at the beginning of the season, I think they were killing themselves trying to do what LB wanted. I think they began to see that LB was not about supporting them (but rather would sell them out in the media every chance he got), and so they lost faith in what he was saying. It was not simply a matter of LB being to hard or demanding on them. You can't ask a guy to run through a wall for you and at the same time, stab him in the back every chance you get. I think that is how the players viewed LB, and they were totally confused with his inability to set a rotation. I mean starting players in their hometown. WTF was that about. Phil never sold Shaq out in the media and Pat Riley never sold out Mourning. If they had, I doubt Shaq or Mourning would be saying the things they are saying now.
Trust the Process
fishmike
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8/23/2006  10:21 AM
Shaq and Zo are losers. What do they know about the NBA. Larry was killing Frye's fun. Nuff said
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Pharzeone
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8/23/2006  10:23 AM
Shaq is correct though he should take some of his own advice. Shaq has ignored his coaches in the past too. Poor Del Harris still has the 22EEE size footprints on his ass. Both Riley and Jackson had to plead with the guy to stay in shape during his off season. He tells his teammates that they don't need to go crazy during the regular season which only drove Riley crazy during the season.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
nixluva
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8/23/2006  10:28 AM
Shaq wasn't on the team last year and has no idea what LB said to them or how he expected them to play. A coach probably never asked Shaq to play a style like that of Center who shoot jumpers and take people off the dribble. Cuz its not his game. Likewise I think LB has a very rigid definition of what certain players can an should do. In particular the PG. The problem is that his BEST player was a PG that doesn't thrive playing a traditional PG role. SO that required someone to change or compromise. It also required that we had other players who could successfully fulfill their roles in a traditional offense. Most of our players are also hybrid types. So to me LB is the one who failed to come up with something that would work for his personnel. If Pat Riley coached like LB he would never had been able to get to the Finals with the Knicks or win a title with the Heat. He's won with TOTALLY different rosters and in TOTALLY different styles.

I like what Shaq and Zo said from a certain standpoint, but in THIS particular situation they're wrong. LB didn't have the kind of players that could run his system and he was going to want wholesale changes in the roster, which would be near impossible. So the Coach was wrong in this case. In training camp he knew this team couldn't run his system, so that should've made him make some adjustments to find a way to win with what he had. He instead chose to make a point to ownership and in essence tanked the season.
Pharzeone
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8/23/2006  10:30 AM
Posted by fishmike:

Shaq and Zo are losers. What do they know about the NBA. Larry was killing Frye's fun. Nuff said

Where does Zo come into the equation? Brown and Riley are two different type of coaches. Riley adapts to a Charles Smith, found a way to use a Hubert Davis and still managed to win games while Brown cannot manage to coach the likes of Marbury, Francis or Robinson and crumbles in the process. Riley was able to fight with both Checketts, Grunfeld, discontent players and still get to atleast 50 wins in a strong east conference. Brown needed all new players and more time to get to the bottom of a medicore east conference.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
joec32033
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8/23/2006  10:47 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by fishmike:

Shaq and Zo are losers. What do they know about the NBA. Larry was killing Frye's fun. Nuff said

Where does Zo come into the equation? Brown and Riley are two different type of coaches. Riley adapts to a Charles Smith, found a way to use a Hubert Davis and still managed to win games while Brown cannot manage to coach the likes of Marbury, Francis or Robinson and crumbles in the process. Riley was able to fight with both Checketts, Grunfeld, discontent players and still get to atleast 50 wins in a strong east conference. Brown needed all new players and more time to get to the bottom of a medicore east conference.

This may be nitpicking a bit, but what has Nate Robinson done to deserve being mentioned in the same breath as even Francis and Marbury yet? He has accomplished nothing. He will be remembered for three things last year. The dunk contest, the shot vs Philly, and the game he didn't shoot because he was pouting like his apparent idol-and not necessarily in that order.
~You can't run from who you are.~
Nalod
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8/23/2006  10:56 AM
Shaq knows the gig.

Its his opinion. I doubt any of us have any more insight than he does on this subject.

You can CHOOSE to agree, or not. But I would try to discredit Shaq.

I was taken back that he admitted he was not the bigger person with penny and Kobe and he learned (hey, it takes time right?) to give DWade the props to let him be the Man. He pretty much said he should have done this with Kobe but wanted to be the focus. Hindsight 20-20.

He credits Phil Jax alot.

After playing for Jax and Riles he respects credible coachs and has learned its not a good idea to fight them, but to join them. He kinda is saying that Marbury should have joined Larry. Thats my take.

I think Larry was corupted by the money (a large amount) to join the knicks. The roster was not constructed properly, was immature, and obviously was not on the same page as management.

Curious the withholding of Larrys paycheck is not more newsworthy.

My prediction, Larry will fire back not just for his pay, but for damages as well. They orchestrated and tried to trap him. He may have grounds.

It could get ugly, or dolan might just pay him anyway.
Nalod
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8/23/2006  11:00 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by fishmike:

Shaq and Zo are losers. What do they know about the NBA. Larry was killing Frye's fun. Nuff said

Where does Zo come into the equation? Brown and Riley are two different type of coaches. Riley adapts to a Charles Smith, found a way to use a Hubert Davis and still managed to win games while Brown cannot manage to coach the likes of Marbury, Francis or Robinson and crumbles in the process. Riley was able to fight with both Checketts, Grunfeld, discontent players and still get to atleast 50 wins in a strong east conference. Brown needed all new players and more time to get to the bottom of a medicore east conference.

That was 12 years ago and that Ewing fella was pretty good then!

To compare the two is kinda off the point.

Riles back then got the most out of his players and did a good job then. He also had 4 years. There were disappointments also.

And no self proclaimed prima donna (s).
fishmike
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8/23/2006  11:10 AM
well according to Zo he says if you do what the coach says you will be successfull.

It all comes down to the same thing. Players making excuses. Thats what Shaq and Zo are saying.

Nixluva.. remind me again the system that was so hard? Something about sharing the ball, rebounding and defending. Yes.. I believe those were the critical things.

It doesnt matter... we will see this year wont we? We get to see once and for all just how talented this group is, and just how genious Isiah really is. Should be interesting.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Pharzeone
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8/23/2006  11:27 AM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by fishmike:

Shaq and Zo are losers. What do they know about the NBA. Larry was killing Frye's fun. Nuff said

Where does Zo come into the equation? Brown and Riley are two different type of coaches. Riley adapts to a Charles Smith, found a way to use a Hubert Davis and still managed to win games while Brown cannot manage to coach the likes of Marbury, Francis or Robinson and crumbles in the process. Riley was able to fight with both Checketts, Grunfeld, discontent players and still get to atleast 50 wins in a strong east conference. Brown needed all new players and more time to get to the bottom of a medicore east conference.

That was 12 years ago and that Ewing fella was pretty good then!

To compare the two is kinda off the point.

Riles back then got the most out of his players and did a good job then. He also had 4 years. There were disappointments also.

And no self proclaimed prima donna (s).

Ewing's nickname was 'The Franchise' Hubie Brown and Pitino both complained about how Ewing's ego was too big. Most star players are prima donnas, even the ones who claim they aren't. That's right you too Tim Duncan. Granted that Riley did have Ewing, and the guy is a special type of player, is he 40 win difference player? I don't know. Riley had his runs in with trouble players, namely Tony Campbell, Mason (was actually suspended twice by Riley), locker room beefs. The difference is that stuff was white noise to Riley, he is just so focus on the end game while Brown is more focus on how to play the game the "right way" It is easy for Shaq to say that stuff now but until he actually plays for a coach like Brown who knows. You don't have to go too far to get opinions on Brown though. So who knows.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
nyk4ever
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8/23/2006  11:42 AM
Let's get something straight. When the going got tough for Riley with the Heat, he quit and became the General Manager, he didn't want to coach a group that didn't have a shot at the title. What happens when the teams is ready for a title run? He comes right back and fires the current head coach who got to Game 7 of the Eastern Finals. Lets also remember some of the names Riley has coached with the Lakers and the Heat: Magic, Worthy, Kareem, Byron Scott, Shaq, DWade, thats a pretty damn good group of guys to coach. A coach is only as good as the players that fit his system, imagine if Phil Jackson couldn't get the players that fit his triangle offense, it just wouldn't work and he certainly wouldn't change his style because thats his bread and butter and it's won him 9 rings.

The problem with New York is that when you get here, the fans forget all about what made you successful and they immediately want you to change into what THEY want you to be. Shaq's got his head on straight, no one can say Shaq isn't a winner. Shaq is one of the best players in basketball history and he took a backseat to Wade for the better of the team, so that they could win and they did win with Shaq playing 2nd fiddle. Shaq knows what it takes to win in this league and he knows how to accomplish those goals with a team aspect in mind, Stephon Marbury has absolutely no clue about either of those subjects and he never will because he's too concerned about stats and his street cred.
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oohah
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8/23/2006  12:15 PM
If Lb had pulled the media/mind games with Shaq that he pulled with Marbury etc., Shaq would have revolted, and LB would have been let go by the all-star break.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
fishmike
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8/23/2006  1:00 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Let's get something straight. When the going got tough for Riley with the Heat, he quit and became the General Manager, he didn't want to coach a group that didn't have a shot at the title. What happens when the teams is ready for a title run? He comes right back and fires the current head coach who got to Game 7 of the Eastern Finals. Lets also remember some of the names Riley has coached with the Lakers and the Heat: Magic, Worthy, Kareem, Byron Scott, Shaq, DWade, thats a pretty damn good group of guys to coach. A coach is only as good as the players that fit his system, imagine if Phil Jackson couldn't get the players that fit his triangle offense, it just wouldn't work and he certainly wouldn't change his style because thats his bread and butter and it's won him 9 rings.

The problem with New York is that when you get here, the fans forget all about what made you successful and they immediately want you to change into what THEY want you to be. Shaq's got his head on straight, no one can say Shaq isn't a winner. Shaq is one of the best players in basketball history and he took a backseat to Wade for the better of the team, so that they could win and they did win with Shaq playing 2nd fiddle. Shaq knows what it takes to win in this league and he knows how to accomplish those goals with a team aspect in mind, Stephon Marbury has absolutely no clue about either of those subjects and he never will because he's too concerned about stats and his street cred.
man... great call on Riley.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
MS
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8/23/2006  1:03 PM
Lets get something straight Marbury sucks, and hes an *******

He isn't a top 5 pg in the league and since his declaration the knicks haven't sniffed 500, and got swept out of the playoffs by the nets and we have become the disgrace of the nba.....so when a 4 time NBA champion and one of the best of all time makes a statement that everyone believes........

Larry is a little bitch we all no that, but he could have made the team better if they bought into an intial system, he had a terrible team to work with with no one looking to step up
holfresh
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8/23/2006  1:07 PM
Riley is also a coach that let's players be themselves...He is also a coach that coaches to the talent around him....With the Lakers it was showtime, with the Knicks it was defense, with the first Heat team it was a defensive minded team, this current Heat team revolves around Wade's and Shaq's ability ...Riley is a player's coach in every sense of the word...The guy does not need the spotlight to be happy and succesful...LB needs the spotlight....LB does not adapt...LB is not a player coach per say...LB will take it to the media...Riley is an in house guy....You never, never see Riley attacking a player in the media...So I think Shaq's world is totally different than Marbs world...But thats all water under the bridge now....

Zo also demonstrated what a team player he can be with the Nets huh....





[Edited by - holfresh on 08-23-2006 1:17 PM]
Nalod
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8/23/2006  1:29 PM
Riles took over a team in LA that was ready made.

He is a good motivator who kills his players in practice (wore them out) and by playoff time they were cooked. Except for this year.

His motto is not for players to lay back in the off season and turn it on come playoff time.

He dispises that notion but allowed it this year.

Larry has been successful in the past when allowed to mold a team in his image. Was successful with a mature core group in Detroit.

Was unsuccessful when dangled 50 mil, Isiah was wrong to hire him, Isiah was wrong to make promises he could not keep, Larry was wrong to take on this team, and boom you have what you have.

I equally blame Isiah and Larry for last season in my opinion.

Riles x's and o's are weak but a master motivator. The knick teams he had gutted it out on emotion because that the only way they could play at a high level. In retrospect the choke they did is not suprising. They were not a fundamentally strong team except for a few players.

Having Mase and Starks who neither came from winning programs as very important cogs were destined to not complete the championship as they never succeeded under pressure from storied programs.

Larry Johnson was a national champion and given his background in college prepared him to change his career. Mourning, Ewing, Mutumbo all succeeded at some levels both on and off the court as they graduated from the John Thompson school of being a man, then a player.

With a core of Eddy, Steph, and Francis we don't have much leadership. Frye and DLee have had the right coaching and background and in time can lead. Nate must have hung out at Chuck-E-Cheese too much.

My fear is with Marbury around no other player can ever step up as he is such a strong persona that he won't allow it. His strenght is raw and in your face intimidating.

Shaqs comments the last few days about defering leadership to DWade and how in retrospect should have allowed it with Kobe says alot about the man and his maturity.

We can hope Steph is on that path.

And the game will decide in time.
nixluva
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8/23/2006  1:36 PM
Posted by MS:

Lets get something straight Marbury sucks, and hes an *******

He isn't a top 5 pg in the league and since his declaration the knicks haven't sniffed 500, and got swept out of the playoffs by the nets and we have become the disgrace of the nba.....so when a 4 time NBA champion and one of the best of all time makes a statement that everyone believes........

Larry is a little bitch we all no that, but he could have made the team better if they bought into an intial system, he had a terrible team to work with with no one looking to step up

I'm tired of LB and his drama. I'm also tired of so called Knick fans who aren't keeping up with what's going on with the team. This is a NEW team! It started last year and now we have even more new players. So WHY do so many of us live in the past? Many of the players have only been here for a year or less.

Curry, Frye, Lee, Nate, Jared, QRich, Francis, Jalen, Balkman, Colins & James. That's 11 players who have been here for a year or less. Steph, Jamal, Malik & Mo are the only guys who've been here longer. To me we didn't really get a chance to see what this team was under LB. I'm convinced that we weren't all wrong about this team when we thought last year it was a better team than they showed. This year the team will be better and i'm positive that they'll be listening to THIS coach. Who cares what Shaq and Zo say? They aren't on this team and they weren't in the lockeroom or practice, so they DON'T KNOW JACK!!!
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