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Why doesnt dumars get heat
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Caseloads
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7/24/2006  10:18 AM
Lost LB
Lost to Miami
Big Ben Bolts
Traded Darko for Nada, LITERALLY NADA
Delfino wants out
No bench
No future young studs in pipeline
AUTOADVERT
raven
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7/24/2006  10:20 AM
Cause he's not in NY.

NY is a crazy place to play or manage a team, in good or bad times.

Tough place to be. Most of the successful stories that have been done around the league would probably never existed in NY.
bigbeast
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7/24/2006  10:22 AM
He also drafted Darko over Wade, Carmelo and Bosh....
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
Marv
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7/24/2006  10:25 AM
because he did an unbelievably great job assembling that squad and winning a championship. he may be on his way down now but he delivered huge time for that franchise and its fans so he gets tons of leeway for that. deservedly so imo.
TheGame
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7/24/2006  10:28 AM
Really, I think the only bad decisions Dumar made were drafting Darko over Wade, Anthony, and Bosh and then trading Darko to Orlando for basically nothing before securing a committment from Ben Wallace. Losing LB was probably a good thing. Ben Wallace is not worth what Chicago is paying him. Recent comments from Delfino suggests he is willing to stay. They have a few good young players (although no rising star). He signed Flip Murray, which should help their offense. Dumars did a great job constructing a championship team. Although the pistons lost last year, the team, even without Ben, is still a title contender. This is the reason no one is calling for Dumars' head.
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metra
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7/24/2006  10:52 AM
The team's not even close to a title contender this year. I bet they're not getting past the conference semi's.
nyballer
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7/24/2006  10:57 AM
He won a championship 3 years ago, got to game 7 of the finals 2 years ago, and lost in the conference finals this year. His biggest mistake was drafting darko, without a doubt- he was smart not to overpay for ben wallace though. What he does over the next year or 2 will be key, since his team will be on the decline. I don't think he deserves a lot of heat unless he does a bad job over the next couple of years.
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martin
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7/24/2006  11:06 AM
Posted by nyballer:

He won a championship 3 years ago, got to game 7 of the finals 2 years ago, and lost in the conference finals this year. His biggest mistake was drafting darko, without a doubt- he was smart not to overpay for ben wallace though. What he does over the next year or 2 will be key, since his team will be on the decline. I don't think he deserves a lot of heat unless he does a bad job over the next couple of years.

agreed here. Big Ben decision may have been made by the owner for $$ reasons, so we may be able to give Joe a pass here. The next test for him will be to decide when to trade Weed Wallace, Dice and eventually Rip and Big shot and turn them into some young studs.
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Rich
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7/24/2006  11:16 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by nyballer:

He won a championship 3 years ago, got to game 7 of the finals 2 years ago, and lost in the conference finals this year. His biggest mistake was drafting darko, without a doubt- he was smart not to overpay for ben wallace though. What he does over the next year or 2 will be key, since his team will be on the decline. I don't think he deserves a lot of heat unless he does a bad job over the next couple of years.

agreed here. Big Ben decision may have been made by the owner for $$ reasons, so we may be able to give Joe a pass here. The next test for him will be to decide when to trade Weed Wallace, Dice and eventually Rip and Big shot and turn them into some young studs.

Seconded.
fishmike
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7/24/2006  11:57 AM
already has a championship
is working with a fixed budget
turned a 30 game winner into a playoff winner
made great MLE signings for guys like Billups and McDyess
has balanced his team and his moves as GOOD gms do. Didnt put the whole fate of his franchise on the outcome of one draft, or one player.

Gee.. I wonder why he's not blasted more.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Pharzeone
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7/24/2006  12:30 PM
Posted by fishmike:

already has a championship
is working with a fixed budget
turned a 30 game winner into a playoff winner
made great MLE signings for guys like Billups and McDyess
has balanced his team and his moves as GOOD gms do. Didnt put the whole fate of his franchise on the outcome of one draft, or one player.

Gee.. I wonder why he's not blasted more.

I wouldn't call Detroit's budget fixed at all. They just didn't think Wallace was worth the money he got from the Bulls. I totally agree with Dumars, Shaq and Artest. I think Ben Wallace will go down in NBA history as one of the most overrated players. Though I do believe Dumars has been making alot of mistakes over the last couple of years.
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bigbeast
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7/24/2006  12:34 PM
Here's a look at Dumars first 3 seasons as Pistons Pres.

year W L
98-99 29-21
99-00 42-40
00-01 32-50

Dumars wasn't exactly tearing it up his first three years. They went from mediocre (yr 1) to bottom feeder (yr 3). He was able to turn it around by year 4.

Dumars filled hs roster with cast-off's (McDyess), losers (Billups), underachievers (Hamilton, Billups), and headcases (Rasheed) This team was able to banned together and turn it around.

Isiah has been here 3 years. Give the man more time.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 07-24-2006 12:35 PM]

[Edited by - bigbeast on 07-24-2006 12:36 PM]

[Edited by - bigbeast on 07-24-2006 12:37 PM]
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
BigC
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7/24/2006  12:42 PM
Posted by Caseloads:

Lost LB
Lost to Miami
Big Ben Bolts
Traded Darko for Nada, LITERALLY NADA
Delfino wants out
No bench
No future young studs in pipeline

Because his Piston team has won a title recently and he was well liked as player and Dumars is not in the media capitol of America. Let's not forget that his Piston team has also gone to playoffs consistantly.

BigC's Knick blogs and Knicks highlights after every Knicks game http://fromthebaseline.com/
Andrew
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7/24/2006  12:46 PM

Posted by bigbeast:

Here's a look at Dumars first 3 seasons as Pistons Pres.

year W L
98-99 29-21
99-00 42-40
00-01 32-50

Dumars wasn't exactly tearing it up his first three years. They went from mediocre (yr 1) to bottom feeder (yr 3). He was able to turn it around by year 4.

...
...

Isiah has been here 3 years. Give the man more time.

Dumars took over as Detroit's president of basketball operations on June 6, 2000.



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bigbeast
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7/24/2006  12:48 PM
Didn't he move to the front office at the end of the 98 season?
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
Andrew
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7/24/2006  12:51 PM
Posted by bigbeast:

Didn't he move to the front office at the end of the 98 season?

Yes he did. Didn't take his current role until 2000 though.
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BigC
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7/24/2006  12:54 PM
Posted by Caseloads:

Lost LB
Lost to Miami
Big Ben Bolts
Traded Darko for Nada, LITERALLY NADA
Delfino wants out
No bench
No future young studs in pipeline


As far as Dumar losing Larry Brown why do people put the blame on only Dumars?

This is the same Larry that tried to become the Cavs GM during the playoffs when he was still coaching the team. What GM in there right mind would ask Larry to return. Let's not also forget that the Owner also hated Larry.

So how much did Larry really want to be in Detroit?

Now as far as losing to Miami, Who hasn't lost to Miami this year? This was a more talented Heat team.

As far as picking up Darko that was a bad desicion but the Pistons won a title anyway. And if they did draft Wade How do you know Wade would gotten pt over Rip and Billups. Remember Larry would have been the coach.

Now as far as Big Ben, he got expose from the Heat. Why would the Piston invest in the main guy that cost the team to lose to the Heat?

I also think they do have young talent in Amir Johnson, and Jason Maxiell.




[Edited by - BigC on 07-24-2006 1:04 PM]
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fishmike
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7/24/2006  1:25 PM
Posted by bigbeast:

Here's a look at Dumars first 3 seasons as Pistons Pres.

year W L
98-99 29-21
99-00 42-40
00-01 32-50

Dumars wasn't exactly tearing it up his first three years. They went from mediocre (yr 1) to bottom feeder (yr 3). He was able to turn it around by year 4.

Dumars filled hs roster with cast-off's (McDyess), losers (Billups), underachievers (Hamilton, Billups), and headcases (Rasheed) This team was able to banned together and turn it around.

Isiah has been here 3 years. Give the man more time.
of the cast offs and losers Dumar's brought in which had 5 year contracts attached to them? Which did he give up first round picks for? The thing with Dumars is he stuck to a model. He didnt let one or two or even three transactions potentially ruin him. He never gave up too much or gave too much to anyone he rolled the dice on.

Thats what the people that actually think Isiah has done OK are totally blind too. Its not that Isiah has made a move or two that havent worked out. Every GM makes mistakes. Good GMs make them in the context of a plan, a model, a system.

Isiah has none, or if he does it changes every 2 months. He signs guys to fill a hole as if we are winning now. He takes on long term veteran players, then says we are rebuilding. After we are rebuilding he passes on the BPA and takes a role player to fill a need. If we are rebuilding where is that 21 year old kid that dominated the CBA and signed for cheap somewhere else???
He puts all his marbles into a couple of guys, then when it blows up he's got no backup plan. This is why the Knicks won 23 games last year. Not Larry, not Marbury, not Curry, but Isiah. This is why the 2nd pick in the draft yielded Renaldo Balkman and a 5th string point guard.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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7/24/2006  1:41 PM
[quote]

Lost LB---I guess that Detroit fckd up losing LB and paying him 5mm vs us paying him 50mm
Lost to Miami--in the conferenbce finals again
Big Ben Bolts---didnt overpay an againg player
Traded Darko for Nada, LITERALLY NADA--not true, got a orlando one with limited protection
Delfino wants out--who cares
No bench---what does this mean?
No future young studs in pipeline-- have fantastic set-up with their cap amir johnson both number 1s in a great draft next year

what else???


RIP Crushalot😞
nixluva
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7/24/2006  4:04 PM
Dumars didn't have the big contracts and untradeable players Isiah got when he came in. He also wasn't told that he HAD to make the playoffs in his 1st year. Lets be real here. No one really thought that Isiah would be able to do a thing with the contracts and players we had. I can't kick dirt on Dumars cuz I like what he did with that team. However his situation was different.

Still inside of 2.5 seasons, I think Isiah has made some mistakes, but overall did a decent job of retooling this team. If you realize where he started from. It was expensive but this is NY, what isn't expensive about doing business here.
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