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4949
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7/16/2006  2:39 AM
Four years ago (on another board) I started to say that we had a pretty good supporting cast and four years later, I still say the same thing. And so once again I will say that the only thing we are still missing here is a dominatin center. For years we had a dominating center, but never a great supporting cast. Now, ever since Ewing moved on, we have put together a few good cast of players. Guys like Kurt, Spree, Houston, LJ and Camby could have used a dominating center and did not get one. Now we have Frye, Lee, Nate, Curry (as a good back up at this point), Francis, the Roses, the new two rookies, and the others, and we still' don't have a dominating center. So four years later, I am saying the same thing and I don't think we express this fact well enough to make a point of it. I really think we are a dominating center away from going to the playoffs and yes' I'll say it 'to go deep into the playoffs'. If Curry cannot pull it out of the hat by now, then we will 'still' need a dominating center after this next season. If it doesn't work out, let him go and go after two very good centers, once some of this money comes off of the books. It doesn't need to be Shaq or Duncan of whoever is considered a dominating center, but you can get two very good ones who can give our team a chance to play some serious D and put some points on the board, without having to constantly foul and turn the ball over all the time.
I'll never trust this' team again.
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rvhoss
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7/16/2006  8:08 AM
you mean like frye and curry?
Posted by 4949:

but you can get two very good ones who can give our team a chance to play some serious D and put some points on the board

all kool aid all the time.
Panos
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7/16/2006  12:11 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

you mean like frye and curry?
Posted by 4949:

but you can get two very good ones who can give our team a chance to play some serious D and put some points on the board

Which one of them plays D?
anklebraker
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7/16/2006  12:56 PM
Posted by 4949:

Four years ago (on another board) I started to say that we had a pretty good supporting cast and four years later, I still say the same thing. And so once again I will say that the only thing we are still missing here is a dominatin center. For years we had a dominating center, but never a great supporting cast. Now, ever since Ewing moved on, we have put together a few good cast of players. Guys like Kurt, Spree, Houston, LJ and Camby could have used a dominating center and did not get one. Now we have Frye, Lee, Nate, Curry (as a good back up at this point), Francis, the Roses, the new two rookies, and the others, and we still' don't have a dominating center. So four years later, I am saying the same thing and I don't think we express this fact well enough to make a point of it. I really think we are a dominating center away from going to the playoffs and yes' I'll say it 'to go deep into the playoffs'. If Curry cannot pull it out of the hat by now, then we will 'still' need a dominating center after this next season. If it doesn't work out, let him go and go after two very good centers, once some of this money comes off of the books. It doesn't need to be Shaq or Duncan of whoever is considered a dominating center, but you can get two very good ones who can give our team a chance to play some serious D and put some points on the board, without having to constantly foul and turn the ball over all the time.

dude i totally agree with you, i beleive curry can become the dominant center if the offensive fouls didnt hurt him nobody could stop him hes just to big and strong samw goes to jerome james hes a big body and 6 fouls we can waste but if the guy wasnt lazy he could have been good backup to say the least
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Solace
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7/16/2006  1:40 PM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by rvhoss:

you mean like frye and curry?
Posted by 4949:

but you can get two very good ones who can give our team a chance to play some serious D and put some points on the board

Which one of them plays D?

Combined they almost play enough defense to add up to one average player.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
newyorknewyork
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7/16/2006  1:55 PM
Every team in the league other than Spurs & Miami & now Chi are a dominating center way from being in the playoffs or a championship team.

Dominating centers are a gurantee for success if they stay healthy. But the problem is they don't come around to often.

This is the reason why Isiah(though he overpaid) hard pressed for Eddie Curry. HE figured if he was somehow able to turn Curry(who has all the tools other than the most important which is the drive to want to be) into a dominating center. The Knicks will be an elite team for a long time.

A lot of teams can't afford to wait yr after yr to wait for one to come along. So they settle for a stud PF & a quality rebounding shotblocking Center. To go with a good PG or SG.
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4949
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7/16/2006  9:51 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

you mean like frye and curry?
Posted by 4949:

but you can get two very good ones who can give our team a chance to play some serious D and put some points on the board

Frye is not a center. I wouldn't put all of my marbles on Curry just yet either. So if Curry fails, then that is my point.
I'll never trust this' team again.
bigbeast
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7/16/2006  10:03 PM
It would be nice if Isiah can tap into Curry's potential to be a doiminating center.....But with that said, its a new era in the NBA. I don't think its necessary to have a dominating center to be an elite team anymore.

Dallas should have won the championship with there center by commitee approach.

Phoenix was a healthy Stoudamire (pf) away from getting to the championship round and probably winning it. (last year, they tore apart that same Dallas ballclub)

Again, I think its a luxury to have a dominating center, but not a necessity.
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
4949
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7/16/2006  10:46 PM
Posted by bigbeast:

It would be nice if Isiah can tap into Curry's potential to be a doiminating center.....But with that said, its a new era in the NBA. I don't think its necessary to have a dominating center to be an elite team anymore.

Dallas should have won the championship with there center by commitee approach.

Phoenix was a healthy Stoudamire (pf) away from getting to the championship round and probably winning it. (last year, they tore apart that same Dallas ballclub)

Again, I think its a luxury to have a dominating center, but not a necessity.

I think if Boston did not have Bill Russell, Robert Parrish, if L.A. did not have Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul Jabaar, Shaq, if Philadelphia did not have Moses Malone, if Detroit did not have Bill Lambier (who could also shoot the clutch three), Ben Wallace, if Houston did not have 'The Dream' Olojuwon, if San Antonnio did not have Duncan and Miami it's Shaq (again), then I think it's fair to say they probably would not have won.

Now I know what you are talking about, but that is a very rare occasion to be able to win without one. Take chicago for instance had it's Bill Cartwright (remember' the one we had?), but it was jordan who was the real star over there. So if your talking about winning without a dominating center, then I think based on the last 25 years, you better think twice about that. That is almost impossible. Here's another good example. Remember the year Spree took us to the finals a few years back? Who was supposed' to be our dominating centers against Duncan? It was skinny ol' Camby and 6-9 Kurt Thomas. Obviously two very undersized 'dominating' centers? We need Curry to step up or we need a big change in the middle. We need 'something' to happen there!
I'll never trust this' team again.
bigbeast
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7/16/2006  11:39 PM
I'm disputing that the need for a center wasn't essential before. Every center you named is no longer in the league. I'm taking a look at the league as it stands now and as it moves into the future and the traditional role of the center as diminished somewhat.

Other than Shaq and perhaps Ming, there aren't any dominating centers anymore.

Wing players have become the new dominate position in the NBA. James nearly carried that team to the conference finals where they had no business being.
Phoenix, Dallas, New Jersey, Cleveland, all are in position to get to the finals without much in the middle. Again, having a dominant center is something everyone would love to have but most 7 footers in todays game are playing out on the perimeter.

Chris Bosh, Garnett, Dirk, just to name a few are all 7 feet tall but perfer to play on the perimiter. Thats the new mentality.
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
EwingsGlass
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7/17/2006  12:17 AM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by rvhoss:

you mean like frye and curry?
Posted by 4949:

but you can get two very good ones who can give our team a chance to play some serious D and put some points on the board

Which one of them plays D?

Frye

[Edited by - ewingsglass on 07-17-2006 12:18 AM]
You know I gonna spin wit it
nyk4ever
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7/17/2006  12:40 AM
Posted by EwingsGlass:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by rvhoss:

you mean like frye and curry?
Posted by 4949:

but you can get two very good ones who can give our team a chance to play some serious D and put some points on the board

Which one of them plays D?

Frye

[Edited by - ewingsglass on 07-17-2006 12:18 AM]

Frye might get a block or steal here and there but do not confuse him for a good defensive player. He gets pushed around way too easily by other players his own size and if the Knicks are going to go anywhere this year, he's going to really have to improve on that aspect of his game.
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EwingsGlass
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7/17/2006  12:43 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Frye might get a block or steal here and there but do not confuse him for a good defensive player. He gets pushed around way too easily by other players his own size and if the Knicks are going to go anywhere this year, he's going to really have to improve on that aspect of his game.

I really never thought he was getting pushed around. I thought he boxed out pretty well. I think the deficiencies in individual defense that we see is actually the deficiencies of the team defense. When parts of the defense collapse, it is more difficult to defend against your own man. Regardless, I think the point everyone is making is that "team offense" may be good and all, but "team defense" needs to improve also.
You know I gonna spin wit it
nixluva
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7/17/2006  1:10 AM
Curry really isn't that far away from being a good center in this league. If we get him more easy possessions this year and thus keep him in the game longer, he's gonna put up numbers and draw a LOT of fouls. If Curry can get up to around 18/8/1.5 blks, he's gonna REALLY help this team. We don't need him to be Dominant, just good.

Frye may not be the most rugged PF, but he's far from a pushover. How many PF's are really gonna stop Duncan, Amare, KG or Rasheed anyway. He's gotta have time to develop. Its a rare thing for a guy to be dominant right away. Yet we want Frye to get there all at once. GEEZ! can we give him a FREAKIN CHANCE before we start to label him as incapable of being a good PF/C.

I think we're setup pretty nicely in the frontcourt right now. We've got a bunch of guys who are young and talented which is something we haven't had in a LONG TIME. Curry, Frye, Lee, Butler? and James is actually a NICE group of bigs.
nyk4ever
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7/17/2006  8:34 AM
Posted by nixluva:



Frye may not be the most rugged PF, but he's far from a pushover. How many PF's are really gonna stop Duncan, Amare, KG or Rasheed anyway. He's gotta have time to develop. Its a rare thing for a guy to be dominant right away. Yet we want Frye to get there all at once. GEEZ! can we give him a FREAKIN CHANCE before we start to label him as incapable of being a good PF/C.

I'm still wondering where I said he had no chance of deeveloping into a better defensive player. I merely said that he is pushed around by other guys his own size too often, which is a completely different thing than what you said in your post. No ones saying Frye can't do it, and no one's coming close to calling him incapable, I'm going on what I saw last year and this summerleague so far, I don't know where you pulled this stuff from, because I certainly never said some of those things in your post and I think I'm the only one who has said Frye isn't a good defensive player on this thread.
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joec32033
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7/17/2006  9:47 AM
I'm still wondering where I said he had no chance of deeveloping into a better defensive player. I merely said that he is pushed around by other guys his own size too often,

What concernes me is he got pushed around after adding 10-15 pounds of pure muscle over the summer.
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Travla
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7/17/2006  10:46 AM
Frye gets pushed around because he's still learning how to play in the NBA, he was played too inconsistently last season. If he plays consistently, he will learn how people play him and how to play against those people.
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nyk4ever
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7/17/2006  10:52 AM
Posted by Travla:

Frye gets pushed around because he's still learning how to play in the NBA, he was played too inconsistently last season. If he plays consistently, he will learn how people play him and how to play against those people.

Problem is, he was getting pushed around in college when he was a senior by guys that were 2-3 years younger than him. I've seen Frye a million times between college and the NBA last year and I know absolutely nothing changed in Fryes game from college to pros. He was pushed around in college and he was pushed around last year which leads me to believe, he's going to be pushed around this year too.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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7/17/2006  11:18 AM

Every team in the NBA is looking for a dominating center..Shaq mioght just be the last of his breed...The Knicks are a lot closer to having one than most teams in the NBA...

I'm always amazed how much flack Frye's game gets on this board...The guy is one of the best PF in last year's draft...Had rookie of the year potential...Has the skills to develop into an allstar down the road..But leave it to Knick fans to knock the guys game...Amazing...
nyk4ever
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7/17/2006  11:46 AM
Posted by holfresh:


Every team in the NBA is looking for a dominating center..Shaq mioght just be the last of his breed...The Knicks are a lot closer to having one than most teams in the NBA...

I'm always amazed how much flack Frye's game gets on this board...The guy is one of the best PF in last year's draft...Had rookie of the year potential...Has the skills to develop into an allstar down the road..But leave it to Knick fans to knock the guys game...Amazing...


Leave it to some Knick fans to not knock any of the players on this team and think they are all worth their weight in gold.

Frye looks like he's going to be a solid player for the Knicks, but he has some weaknesses, you just refuse to acknowledge them because you want everything to be perfect. I love Frye, I love his shooting ability, now if he can hone his defense which has plagued him for 5 years between college and the NBA, he'll be a even better player than he is. But to not acknowledge that he needs to work on his defense is the REAL fallacy.

I'm sorry, I don't deal with rose-colored glasses, I deal with the here and now.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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