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The new offense
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efw
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7/13/2006  12:07 AM
There's been some mention in the papers and in interviews about the motion offense that Isiah is trying to implement. But watching the summer league games, I was really impressed by how smooth and comfortable the players looked in it. I can't believe how quickly they've adapted to it. Is it similar to the college systems they played in? Is it an easy system to learn? It's fun to see how each player can be used as a pivot and look for the cutters. If there are none, he just passes it back out and they swing it to try it again with someone else.

I have to get a little used to it, in fact, because i've never really seen a Knick team use it in a looooong time. All I've seen for the past couple decades are isolation players for Ewing, Houston (especially Houston), Spree, LJ, etc. It really is great to watch the back cutters and to see the team get hyped off of a pass rather than a fade away jumper. It also necessitates the involvment of all the players on the court.

It will be interesting to see it unfold with the regular roster players because I don't think all of them are suited for it. I actually think Steph could thrive in it as he's a good passer. Francis I think will be terrible and will clog the offense up. As long as Eddy receives the pass for a dunk he'll be fine. Jamal sees cutters excellently. Jalen could be good in it. Q is another one who will succeed as long as he's the finisher, because his passing skills seem mediocre.
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BlueSeats
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7/13/2006  12:48 AM
It looked much the same last summer league too.

I really think it's mostly just guys out there without an overly complicated system playing unselfishly. No ball dominating ('cept when Nate loses perspective), no black holes, little chucking. Mostly just spacing the floor, guys cutting, moving the ball and looking for each other.

Also guys like Nate, Lee and Frye have played together before, but guys like Ariza, Barnes, Butler, etc fit in just as well last year.

[Edited by - BlueSeats on 07-13-2006 12:49 AM]
nixluva
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7/13/2006  1:52 AM
I think Isiah clearly has given this group a sense of the kind of free flowing offfense that he's going to implement and some of what we see is a result of that, but yes its summer league and these guys have a feel for each other as well.

Still Isiah is known to be a very creative Offensive coach and tho its just basketball, the Knicks will have a much less predictable offense this year. Lots of motion and options is just what this team of talented offensive players needs. Its one of the things that killed me watching this team last year. I knew this team was a much better offensive team than it showed last year. Heck the year before the Knicks avg'd 97ppg and that was with a much less talented group of players. So to me this team should be one of the higher scoring teams in the East. LB has never been a great offensive coach, so don't judge these players on how they looked last year under him. He's mostly going to make sure that his teams play vanilla and mistake free and try to dominate on defense. However, if you don't have the defensive pieces to implement that plan, you'll get killed as we did. Isiah will adjust to the actual roster he has and that means we'll have to play D, but our best side of the ball will be our offense. Its just the plain truth. We aren't yet equipped to be a shut down team. So we have to make our offense our best defense. Play just enough D to win games.
Anji
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7/13/2006  2:39 AM
I the offense looks great. The best part about it is not how NAte/Frye/Lee looked in the offense, but how good the Euro-trash and Walker Russell looked in the offense. I think Marbury is going to have his best season to date.
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EnySpree
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7/13/2006  2:53 AM
the offense is definately out of the ordinary for the knicks. Its great.

I just like the fact that everyone is a threat. Something good happens on offense everytime down. On defense the guys are being told to accelerate the ball up court as fast as possible and the summer league guys are making it look easy. Nothing flashy just pure transition basketball. If they can't get the basket they get to the line or they just get right into the offense and start the cutting and rotating.

Its freakin beautiful. I hope the vets pick it up man I truly hope so cuz then we will be on to something finally in ny.

I like that play enough d to win games line from nix. That's all it takes. Its always a team concept anyway.
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BigC
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7/13/2006  7:45 AM
It sounds good, however can you get the vets to implement it is a different story altogether.
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rvhoss
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7/13/2006  7:56 AM
all we need is steph, qrich, crawford and curry to get it.

any additional players is gravy AND the second round.

gulp gulp gulp.
all kool aid all the time.
bigbeast
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7/13/2006  9:18 AM
Posted by BigC:

It sounds good, however can you get the vets to implement it is a different story altogether.

I agree. The summer league roster consists of Free agents, rookies and for the most part egoless players who haven't developed any bad habits to get stuck in.

It'll be a challenge for Isiah to get all the veterans (especially the one on one players like Francis and Taylor) to consistanly run an offense that consists of Passing and Cutting.....Its a great system. Now if only he could a wing shooter, the offense would be awesome.

Now on the defensive end.......
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EwingsGlass
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7/13/2006  9:27 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

all we need is steph, qrich, crawford and curry to get it.

any additional players is gravy AND the second round.

gulp gulp gulp.

Don't hog it all...gimme some too... mmmm...
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efw
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7/13/2006  10:01 AM
I read somwhere that Isiah was going to use a combination of the Princeton offense, the triangle, and someting else I forget. I can see the Princeton now but not so much the triangle. Maybe that's where Curry and Steph/Francis will fit in?
martin
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7/13/2006  10:16 AM
Posted by efw:

I read somwhere that Isiah was going to use a combination of the Princeton offense, the triangle, and someting else I forget. I can see the Princeton now but not so much the triangle. Maybe that's where Curry and Steph/Francis will fit in?

Princeton, UCLA and Phoenix style mix.

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crzymdups
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7/13/2006  10:17 AM
Posted by efw:

I read somwhere that Isiah was going to use a combination of the Princeton offense, the triangle, and someting else I forget. I can see the Princeton now but not so much the triangle. Maybe that's where Curry and Steph/Francis will fit in?

yeah, the backcuts thing is very princeton offense. Curry ran a lot of backcuts last year - that's how he got most of his alley oops with Craw, or at least a lot of them.

I agree, the key to the offense is going to be how much Steph and Francis buy in to executing it. Though, I think Craw will run the point when Marbury is not and I think he will run this offense to a T.
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nixluva
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7/13/2006  10:30 AM
Come on, do you really think that Steph or Francis will have a problem with a free flowing offense, that allows a player to attack when he's open? Its a LOCK that these guys will grasp this offfense, cuz its more natural to them and their game which relies a lot on quick instincts. They see the opening and exploit it. Steph and Francis are All Star level players! They didn't just fall off a bus into this league. ANY offense that allows them to be creative and aggressive will work. Just don't ask them to be Stockton out there. The openings are created by the player movement and just about anyone can make the simple passes to the cutter when open. Its certainly not going to be hard for Steph or Francis to do that. OR do you actually think that any of the guys playing on this summer league team are better passers and decision makers than Steph? The only guy who even approached his level on this team was Jamal and that was for like a month.
NYKBocker
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7/13/2006  11:07 AM
Posted by nixluva:

Come on, do you really think that Steph or Francis will have a problem with a free flowing offense, that allows a player to attack when he's open? Its a LOCK that these guys will grasp this offfense, cuz its more natural to them and their game which relies a lot on quick instincts. They see the opening and exploit it. Steph and Francis are All Star level players! They didn't just fall off a bus into this league. ANY offense that allows them to be creative and aggressive will work. Just don't ask them to be Stockton out there. The openings are created by the player movement and just about anyone can make the simple passes to the cutter when open. Its certainly not going to be hard for Steph or Francis to do that. OR do you actually think that any of the guys playing on this summer league team are better passers and decision makers than Steph? The only guy who even approached his level on this team was Jamal and that was for like a month.


Boobury's idea of an assist is by dribbling for 15 seconds then penetrate and dish. He is the spitting blackhole.
gunsnewing
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7/13/2006  11:15 AM
I just hope Francis doesn't spoil it
nixluva
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7/13/2006  11:34 AM
Posted by NYKBocker:

Boobury's idea of an assist is by dribbling for 15 seconds then penetrate and dish. He is the spitting blackhole.

You haven't seen him in THIS type of offense. You are only judging him playing in an offense where he's told to wait while the team methodically runs a predictable set. This isn't that kind of offense and will be much more quick hitting than that. Steph excels in that kind of offense. He'll be energized by the movement and not being nailed at the top of the key while no one moves. I keep saying this, but don't be so influenced by the negative media crap about Steph. You'd think he was some scrub who can't play.

Just to put some perspective on things. Steph avg'd 12.9 fga a game last year. AI 25.3, Arenas 20.9, Bibby 16.9, Baron 15.9, Mike James, 15.5, Cassell 14.3, Parker 14.2, Terry 13.7 and Nash 13.4. Steph clearly wasn't anywhere near what he should've been as an offensive player last year. He's everybit as talented offensively as these other guards. Let's get one thing straight Steph is a SCORING GUARD, and if you're not using him that way you're making a big mistake. Francis avg'd 10.9 fga last year and scored 14.4ppg and about 5 asts. I think with him its best if he's left to think SCORE and not have to think of running the team so much. He's too turnover prone. An offense with a LOT of motion would really suit his skills and athletic talents.

Isiah will be much more successful in using both Steph and Francis. Being a high scoring guard himself he'll know ways to get these guys in the best position to succeed. That also goes for Jamal and Nate.
kNYks342
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7/13/2006  11:36 AM
i dont think francis will spoil it...in fact francis will thrive in it, you think about the triangle offense and franscis can post, drive and dish, that helps with the cutting that is involved, also when you think about runnning on teams we know francis can finish wit hthe best of them. give him a chance, he is better than we think larry just used him wrong. isiah is gonna be the type of coach who coaches around his players and that will help these guys win somee games.
holfresh
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7/13/2006  11:48 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by efw:

I read somwhere that Isiah was going to use a combination of the Princeton offense, the triangle, and someting else I forget. I can see the Princeton now but not so much the triangle. Maybe that's where Curry and Steph/Francis will fit in?

Princeton, UCLA and Phoenix style mix.



It's actually the UCLA shuffle cut high post offense, Bob Knights passing and Tex Winter's triangle offense....A mix of those...
NYKBocker
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7/13/2006  1:18 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by NYKBocker:

Boobury's idea of an assist is by dribbling for 15 seconds then penetrate and dish. He is the spitting blackhole.

You haven't seen him in THIS type of offense. You are only judging him playing in an offense where he's told to wait while the team methodically runs a predictable set. This isn't that kind of offense and will be much more quick hitting than that. Steph excels in that kind of offense. He'll be energized by the movement and not being nailed at the top of the key while no one moves. I keep saying this, but don't be so influenced by the negative media crap about Steph. You'd think he was some scrub who can't play.

Just to put some perspective on things. Steph avg'd 12.9 fga a game last year. AI 25.3, Arenas 20.9, Bibby 16.9, Baron 15.9, Mike James, 15.5, Cassell 14.3, Parker 14.2, Terry 13.7 and Nash 13.4. Steph clearly wasn't anywhere near what he should've been as an offensive player last year. He's everybit as talented offensively as these other guards. Let's get one thing straight Steph is a SCORING GUARD, and if you're not using him that way you're making a big mistake. Francis avg'd 10.9 fga last year and scored 14.4ppg and about 5 asts. I think with him its best if he's left to think SCORE and not have to think of running the team so much. He's too turnover prone. An offense with a LOT of motion would really suit his skills and athletic talents.

Isiah will be much more successful in using both Steph and Francis. Being a high scoring guard himself he'll know ways to get these guys in the best position to succeed. That also goes for Jamal and Nate.


You are right, I have not seen him on this type of offense, but...He was given every oppurtunity to do so. His last year with PHX, D'Antoni wanted him to play like this but he could/would not buy into the system. I would love to be proven wrong. I have been very vocal about my distaste of Blubbury's play and shenanigans since he was acquired but I have stated that I would like for him to prove me wrong.
Anji
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7/13/2006  1:59 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by martin:
Posted by efw:

I read somwhere that Isiah was going to use a combination of the Princeton offense, the triangle, and someting else I forget. I can see the Princeton now but not so much the triangle. Maybe that's where Curry and Steph/Francis will fit in?

Princeton, UCLA and Phoenix style mix.



It's actually the UCLA shuffle cut high post offense, Bob Knights passing and Tex Winter's triangle offense....A mix of those...


Yeah I was going to post that, no phoenix style...Isiah wants to attack and puh the ball. If that isn't there then he will run his half court.


Hope we see alot of the UCLA back picks too.......... I love those.

[Edited by - Anji on 07-13-2006 2:00 PM]
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