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What do the knicks do?????
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Anji
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7/6/2006  4:52 AM
For a Smallforward????? Two questions.

Would you Take Mike Dunleavy???

Would you Take Stephen Jackson?????

And what for????
A 1rd pick, MoT/JRose/MRose/Q???
Because the knicks probably need a starting smallforward and I don't like Q.

What should Isiah be looking at???
Should he be lookin at a cheap starting Forward like Devan George or Rausal Butler???? Or can Qwoods or Q get it done???

I don't want miles or simmions either. So do we even consider starting Collins???? Or Balkman??? I don't know.

[Edited by - Anji on 07-06-2006 04:53 AM]
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rvhoss
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7/6/2006  5:35 AM
I'm going to have to say qwoods/qrich. they are already here, they won't cost us more, and they are combined a pretty good combination of offense and defense.

I like Qwoods ability to fill the lane, but he's still extremely raw, I like QRich in the 3 like he played in phoenix, he has proven to be one of our top defenders so it makes even more sense that he should get the starting nod.
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joec32033
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7/6/2006  7:23 AM
Posted by Anji:

For a Smallforward????? Two questions.

Would you Take Mike Dunleavy???

Would you Take Stephen Jackson?????

And what for????
A 1rd pick, MoT/JRose/MRose/Q???
Because the knicks probably need a starting smallforward and I don't like Q.

What should Isiah be looking at???
Should he be lookin at a cheap starting Forward like Devan George or Rausal Butler???? Or can Qwoods or Q get it done???

I don't want miles or simmions either. So do we even consider starting Collins???? Or Balkman??? I don't know.

[Edited by - Anji on 07-06-2006 04:53 AM]

I absolutely take Stevie Jax...he is a gritty defender who can score and is very versatile to defend 3 positions (PG, SG, SF). Plus he will lend a bit of leadership and experiece to this team. He wasn't high profile or a first round golden boy (Wazzup, Steph, Franchise?). He worked hard to get where he was and is still working hard to stay here.

I also would really like to see Woods stay too. He's gots da potential.

George is not a starting quality SF, IMO. Neither is Rasual Butler. Both would be nice additions but it is more of the sme question mark we already have.

And I HATE Dunleavy.

It's hard to work out a trade for MO for Jax (you would have to include Tinsley on their side to make it work). I doubt very much they want Malik...It would probably take Q and a first rounder. or Maybe something like Craw for SJax.
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martin
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7/6/2006  8:18 AM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by Anji:

For a Smallforward????? Two questions.

Would you Take Mike Dunleavy???

Would you Take Stephen Jackson?????

And what for????
A 1rd pick, MoT/JRose/MRose/Q???
Because the knicks probably need a starting smallforward and I don't like Q.

What should Isiah be looking at???
Should he be lookin at a cheap starting Forward like Devan George or Rausal Butler???? Or can Qwoods or Q get it done???

I don't want miles or simmions either. So do we even consider starting Collins???? Or Balkman??? I don't know.

[Edited by - Anji on 07-06-2006 04:53 AM]

I absolutely take Stevie Jax...he is a gritty defender who can score and is very versatile to defend 3 positions (PG, SG, SF). Plus he will lend a bit of leadership and experiece to this team. He wasn't high profile or a first round golden boy (Wazzup, Steph, Franchise?). He worked hard to get where he was and is still working hard to stay here.

I also would really like to see Woods stay too. He's gots da potential.

George is not a starting quality SF, IMO. Neither is Rasual Butler. Both would be nice additions but it is more of the sme question mark we already have.

And I HATE Dunleavy.

It's hard to work out a trade for MO for Jax (you would have to include Tinsley on their side to make it work). I doubt very much they want Malik...It would probably take Q and a first rounder. or Maybe something like Craw for SJax.

wow, we have opposite takes on Stephen Jackson. I thought the word on him was that he was not so a defender, not really a team player and was mostly out just to get his. I also thought that Bird/Walsh were kinda tired of him and hoped to move him but couldn't because of his contract.
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joec32033
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7/6/2006  8:22 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by Anji:

For a Smallforward????? Two questions.

Would you Take Mike Dunleavy???

Would you Take Stephen Jackson?????

And what for????
A 1rd pick, MoT/JRose/MRose/Q???
Because the knicks probably need a starting smallforward and I don't like Q.

What should Isiah be looking at???
Should he be lookin at a cheap starting Forward like Devan George or Rausal Butler???? Or can Qwoods or Q get it done???

I don't want miles or simmions either. So do we even consider starting Collins???? Or Balkman??? I don't know.

[Edited by - Anji on 07-06-2006 04:53 AM]

I absolutely take Stevie Jax...he is a gritty defender who can score and is very versatile to defend 3 positions (PG, SG, SF). Plus he will lend a bit of leadership and experiece to this team. He wasn't high profile or a first round golden boy (Wazzup, Steph, Franchise?). He worked hard to get where he was and is still working hard to stay here.

I also would really like to see Woods stay too. He's gots da potential.

George is not a starting quality SF, IMO. Neither is Rasual Butler. Both would be nice additions but it is more of the sme question mark we already have.

And I HATE Dunleavy.

It's hard to work out a trade for MO for Jax (you would have to include Tinsley on their side to make it work). I doubt very much they want Malik...It would probably take Q and a first rounder. or Maybe something like Craw for SJax.

wow, we have opposite takes on Stephen Jackson. I thought the word on him was that he was not so a defender, not really a team player and was mostly out just to get his. I also thought that Bird/Walsh were kinda tired of him and hoped to move him but couldn't because of his contract.

Wow...wierd. I know he was a great defender in NJ and ATL-Maybe he laid back on D in Indy, but I haven't noticed it. I know he can be a little selfish. He reminds me of a taller John Starks-but not as good on D and with a touch less heart-but that doesn't make him and any less gritty, IMO.
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martin
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7/6/2006  8:25 AM
Also, I think he is known for being a little boneheaded.
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joec32033
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7/6/2006  8:27 AM
Posted by martin:

Also, I think he is known for being a little boneheaded.

I don't think I ever said he was smart...he'll fit right in...
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rvhoss
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7/6/2006  8:38 AM
sorry, I'm with martin on this, my only memories of stephen jackson are taking less money to leave the spurs (I think) and then fighting fans in the stands with artest.

no thanks. I like the two headed Q monsters.
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joec32033
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7/6/2006  8:41 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

sorry, I'm with martin on this, my only memories of stephen jackson are taking less money to leave the spurs (I think) and then fighting fans in the stands with artest.

no thanks. I like the two headed Q monsters.

If we were garaunteed to take the leap with Q2, I am all for him over Jax-with age being the deciding factor.
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Finestrg
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7/6/2006  8:44 AM
You sign Q-Woods on the cheap. No way I'm taking back a contract like Stephen Jackson's. More than happy with a Q-Woods/Balkman/Q-Rich scenario at the 3. I'm tell ya though, we better act now on Woods or someone will make an offer and we'll lose him. He's not on anyone's top FA list but he's a good fit for the Knicks. We should've heard something by now. Everyday that goes by with no news on Woods makes me think they don't want him back and I can't understand it.
rvhoss
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7/6/2006  8:45 AM
yeah, qrich and qwoods are both younger...Steph Jax showed me something last year with his ability to post up...I don't remember the playoff series but there was a series of trips where he just simply could not be stopped...unfortunately, he kept the ball out of peja automatiski, but hey, he was making buckets and he had emotion.

While it may be kool aid induced, I'm pretty sure everyone will return to their pre LB form, were most of these guys losers before LB...ofcourse, but they were even BIGGER losers during LB.

It remains to be seen whether or not they will return to form, but even at my age, I still don't remember ever seeing larry brown play the point, and in today's game, there are maybe 3 point guards that play like him.

I remember when jordan played the point and they moved him to the two because he didn't play it old school, same with iverson.

Zeke was part of the new era of point guards and that new era was of a point guard that could drive and dish, hit the open look AND play off the ball.

I remember in the beginning of the season marbs asked if he could play the two like iverson and was flatly denied, but the year before we were successfull in that scenario.

So I see that coming back as well.

If these things happen, I see the two headed Q monster thriving at the 3.
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joec32033
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7/6/2006  8:48 AM
While it may be kool aid induced, I'm pretty sure everyone will return to their pre LB form, were most of these guys losers before LB...ofcourse, but they were even BIGGER losers during LB.

Careful, RV, you came close to actually placing responsibility on the players....wouldn't want to do that! J/K
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rvhoss
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7/6/2006  8:55 AM
i have no explanation for why QRich couldn't hit WIDE open 3's...but he did play defense. He was out of shape and always seemed to have a splint on his hand, so that may have contributed.

Nate hits his shots, and from what I'm seeing and hearing out of SL, he's the back up point...so that may help...but I still don't see us needing anything from the SF position but the ability to hit the open 3.

Curry will be doubled and we are going back to dribble penetration and running off the screen and roll, so in all of these scenarios, the SF ends up wide open.

Marbs, Crawford, QRich, Frye and Curry is a pretty good lineup, especially if QRich can defend on the wing and frye can block shots...a little concerned with Curry's rebounding, but I see Lee coming in and mopping up the boards around that lineup pretty decently.

There aren't that many pure centers in east as they all appear to be converted power forwards (shaq excused ofcourse).

I think the problme is that I tend to throw in my opinion and that's when I expose myself to contradictions, but hey, it's a message board.
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martin
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7/6/2006  9:07 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

i have no explanation for why QRich couldn't hit WIDE open 3's...but he did play defense. He was out of shape and always seemed to have a splint on his hand, so that may have contributed.

Nate hits his shots, and from what I'm seeing and hearing out of SL, he's the back up point...so that may help...but I still don't see us needing anything from the SF position but the ability to hit the open 3.

Curry will be doubled and we are going back to dribble penetration and running off the screen and roll, so in all of these scenarios, the SF ends up wide open.

Marbs, Crawford, QRich, Frye and Curry is a pretty good lineup, especially if QRich can defend on the wing and frye can block shots...a little concerned with Curry's rebounding, but I see Lee coming in and mopping up the boards around that lineup pretty decently.

There aren't that many pure centers in east as they all appear to be converted power forwards (shaq excused ofcourse).

I think the problme is that I tend to throw in my opinion and that's when I expose myself to contradictions, but hey, it's a message board.

RV, it's not the contradictions I am worried about, it's the process of accumulating an opinion.

For instance: Q didn't seem out of shape but he was hurt early in the year. Back problems and then ankle problems and maybe Brandy problems and then death-in-family problems and he hurt his non-shooting hand (right?).

Marbs, Crawford, QRich, Frye and Curry... Good lineup? 4 out of those 5 never played a minute of D. Harsh but realistic. And so far Frye is more of a positional defender than a real shotblocker.
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joec32033
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7/6/2006  9:11 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

i have no explanation for why QRich couldn't hit WIDE open 3's...but he did play defense. He was out of shape and always seemed to have a splint on his hand, so that may have contributed.

Nate hits his shots, and from what I'm seeing and hearing out of SL, he's the back up point...so that may help...but I still don't see us needing anything from the SF position but the ability to hit the open 3.

Curry will be doubled and we are going back to dribble penetration and running off the screen and roll, so in all of these scenarios, the SF ends up wide open.

Marbs, Crawford, QRich, Frye and Curry is a pretty good lineup, especially if QRich can defend on the wing and frye can block shots...a little concerned with Curry's rebounding, but I see Lee coming in and mopping up the boards around that lineup pretty decently.

There aren't that many pure centers in east as they all appear to be converted power forwards (shaq excused ofcourse).

I think the problme is that I tend to throw in my opinion and that's when I expose myself to contradictions, but hey, it's a message board.

I like Lee starting at the SF...he adds some D...I think my dream lineup is(as the team stands right now-ideally we trade 2 of our PG/SG and Jalen):

Curry
Frye(back up some 5 too)
Lee (back up some 4 too)
Q
Steph

With Francis, Craw, Q2(gotta develop him), Adeleke, Balkman off the bench
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rvhoss
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7/6/2006  9:27 AM
i don't know martin, check the tape, he had flabby biceps going into the season and to me, that's out of shape, expecially for a basketball player...in bball, which are the best athletes in the world, you always have tight tri and bi cepts.

Check the tape.

4 out of the 5 could not play man to man stopper defense, but what team that hasn't won a championship in the last 7 years did NOT have 4 defensive stoppers in the starting lineup?

We've got to stop drinking the kool aid in one sentence and then the haterade in the very next sentence.

Either you think these guys all suck, or you think they are underachieved or they are somewhere in the middle.

but to say frye is a positional defender and not a pure shotblocker to me means that a system designed to this will yield him more blocked shots (something like how he performed in Arizona).

You modify the system just a little and even Irk (no d historically) nowitski (who is beloved out here btw) can look like he's playing defense.

the heat have maybe two defenders in their starting rotation? and they won a title...while they had some defenders on the bench, well, I say so do we.

but defending is only half the game.

You mix scorers with defenders and you're talking a championship contender, however, we are not a champsionship contender.

I'll take 2 solid defenders in the starting lineup, even if one is a positional shot blocker, and I'll work on the rest of them and ride my bench defenders to the second round in playoff situational basketball.

My defensive starters are Q and Frye.
My defensive bench, Lee and QWoods (who can defend btw).

I think nate can play defense pretty well when given the opportunity to pressure the ball...i mean he had what a steal a game? Still not fantastic, but Q didn't have many steals either (but he did have a bunch of rebounds) marbury and crawford had 1 a game a piece as well, but like I said, only championship teams have 4 or more great defenders and contenders tend to have 3 atleast (how many do the suns have?)
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Anji
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7/6/2006  3:53 PM
The thing I remember about Jax is two years ago when Artest got suspened, the pacers made the playoffs and were playing the celtics. The media and fan were getting on Jax for his play (even though he was having a very good series) because the celtics had pushed them to a game seven. And I remember Jax giving an interview talking about people always piling on him, but he will always show up.

Game 7 with all this drama around him he goes outs, holds Perice to 19 points and leads the team in scoring with 24.

I like Jaxs..... He's a player.
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nyk4ever
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7/6/2006  4:09 PM
I would love to take on Dunleavy. I know his potential has yet to be realized since he came out of Duke but the guy can shoot the ball, he can rebound, and his defense is pretty decent. When I look at the Knicks I look at the SG/SF positions and I don't see any players that can shoot the ball from mid to 3point range with any consistancy and I think Dunleavy will provide that. Yes I know alot of you are going to look at his FG% from the past year and tell me otherwise but if you saw this guy at Duke and the 2 previous seasons on the Warrios, you would agree that he can shoot the ball. I think a change of scenery would do him real nice.

As for what I'd give up for him? I know Dunleavy is a BYC player, so that makes him hard to get with the contracts on our roster. MAYBE a resigned Jackie Butler and Nate Robinson for him, I'd throw in a future 1st rounder (protected of course) if I had to as well.
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Solace
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7/6/2006  4:35 PM
HELL NO to Dunleavy. He is possibly the worst SF defender in the NBA. He maks Tim Thomas and Keith Van Horn look like defensive studs in comparison. He's a team player, but add him to the Knicks and the opposing small forwards will average 110 pts a night, breaking the NBA record by a wide margin.
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purple012870
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7/6/2006  4:45 PM
I'd take Stephen Jackson but I think he's more of a 2 guard & a starter for the Pacers. I don't think he's going anywhere. I'd take Dunleavy/Foyle for QRich/James.
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