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Isiah failing the roster?
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McK1
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7/5/2006  5:10 PM
can someone please explain why Isiah doesn't believe in guards who can shoot?

he inherited Reggie in Indy and Allan here but if you look at his personnel moves for Toronto Indy and NY he seems to never targets shooters on the wings.

McGrady eventually developed into a decent shooter but that was in Orlando.

has there been a 2/3 ever drafted/acquired/signed outside of TMac that have come close to putting the ball in the hole at a respectable clip from 2 and 3 + the foul line

specifically with this Knicks team, why no plan to surround Marbury and Curry with more than just Frye as a shooter. Crawful and Q-Bricks are as streaky as they come.

some contend he's built a powerhouse, I say he's built the pre-Sam-Cat Mobley Clips aka A highlight reel full of guys unable to take an NBA position long enough to win no more than 30 games (apologies to Dunleavy Sr, I thought for the longest it was him). they lose Rad and pay Tim because every roster needs wings who can square up and deliver.

Fish got overpaid and then GS was able to dump him because if nothing else he knows how to get in position to and once there square up and make shots.

Who do we have at the swing position that you can honestly say that about

I hold out hope for Nate but it seems from the first impression he wants to dunk on the world more than become a legit outside option.





[Edited by - McK1 on 07-05-2006 5:11 PM]
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martin
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7/5/2006  5:14 PM
Posted by McK1:

specifically with this Knicks team, why no plan to surround Marbury and Curry with more than just Frye as a shooter. Crawful and Q-Bricks are as streaky as they come.

I think that you said it yourself. No plan.

Getting younger and more athletic is a good first step in a plan, but you have no know how to build upon that and make sure you CAN build upon it.
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franco12
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7/5/2006  6:07 PM
what shooters are available? I don't want to give isiah a pass, but I think he has done the best he could.

I would have loved Stephen Jackson on the squad- is he available?

And, at this point, whether they admit it in public or not, we are in full rebuilding mode which I think means no more salary.
McK1
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7/5/2006  6:12 PM
Posted by franco12:

what shooters are available? I don't want to give isiah a pass, but I think he has done the best he could.

as recently as this draft Maurice Ager was there at 20 and fell to 28 in a draft where the 21& 27 were sold.

Its not a question of availability but moreso a question of what Isiah is targetting.
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franco12
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7/5/2006  6:18 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by franco12:

what shooters are available? I don't want to give isiah a pass, but I think he has done the best he could.

as recently as this draft Maurice Ager was there at 20 and fell to 28 in a draft where the 21& 27 were sold.

Its not a question of availability but moreso a question of what Isiah is targetting.


We sure should have taken a look- the best shooters we have are Nate and Frye- both 1 year players at this poing- Frye isn't a deep threat and Nate shouldn't be relied upon to produce as a main cog.

On the roster, in terms of vets, only Jalen is a good shooter and he should be bought out. Francis and Marbury do their damage inside.

Prepare to watch opponents zone us to death and clog the lane.
Pharzeone
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7/5/2006  6:46 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by franco12:

what shooters are available? I don't want to give isiah a pass, but I think he has done the best he could.

as recently as this draft Maurice Ager was there at 20 and fell to 28 in a draft where the 21& 27 were sold.

Its not a question of availability but moreso a question of what Isiah is targetting.

You have a valid point, Thomas has always favored scorers over pure shooters. He isn't alone, Jordan has said on a number of occasions that pure shooters are overrated. I know he made reference to Allan Houston a couple of times and RIP. Something about pure shooters needing to have perfect situations usually in order to really benefit teams. His belief was that a pure shooter couldn't be your main option. I never really understood that thought pattern but I do remember Thomas saying as much about Stoudamire and McGrady. I can't believe the Knicks still don't have a reliable outside threat. I can't believe that your 2nd year PF/C will still be your most reliable outside threat.
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martin
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7/5/2006  6:52 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by franco12:

what shooters are available? I don't want to give isiah a pass, but I think he has done the best he could.

as recently as this draft Maurice Ager was there at 20 and fell to 28 in a draft where the 21& 27 were sold.

Its not a question of availability but moreso a question of what Isiah is targetting.

You have a valid point, Thomas has always favored scorers over pure shooters. He isn't alone, Jordan has said on a number of occasions that pure shooters are overrated. I know he made reference to Allan Houston a couple of times and RIP. Something about pure shooters needing to have perfect situations usually in order to really benefit teams. His belief was that a pure shooter couldn't be your main option. I never really understood that thought pattern but I do remember Thomas saying as much about Stoudamire and McGrady. I can't believe the Knicks still don't have a reliable outside threat. I can't believe that your 2nd year PF/C will still be your most reliable outside threat.

COnsidering recent history of talent evaluation, I wouldn't take Jordan's words for much. Great player but that's it.
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nyk4ever
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7/5/2006  7:06 PM
Posted by martin:


COnsidering recent history of talent evaluation, I wouldn't take Jordan's words for much. Great player but that's it.

Sounds like someone else

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misterearl
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7/5/2006  8:30 PM
Shooters

Let's say, just for sake of discussion, 45% from the field is a standard of NBA decency...

Eddy Curry shot 56 per cent from the field

David Lee a gaudy 59.6 per cent

Jackie Butler 54%

Qyntel Woods 50%

and Channing Frye 47 per cent

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BRIGGS
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7/5/2006  8:33 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Shooters

Let's say, just for sake of discussion, 45% from the field is a standard of NBA decency...

Eddy Curry shot 56 per cent from the field

David Lee a gaudy 59.6 per cent

Jackie Butler 54%

Qyntel Woods 50%

and Channing Frye 47 per cent

i think he meant long-range arsenal--like who can shoot past 15 feet at an acceptable %
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islesfan
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7/5/2006  8:42 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by misterearl:

Shooters

Let's say, just for sake of discussion, 45% from the field is a standard of NBA decency...

Eddy Curry shot 56 per cent from the field

David Lee a gaudy 59.6 per cent

Jackie Butler 54%

Qyntel Woods 50%

and Channing Frye 47 per cent

i think he meant long-range arsenal--like who can shoot past 15 feet at an acceptable %

What are you talking about? Shaq is always among the league leaders in FG% so he must be a great shooter.
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bigbeast
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7/5/2006  8:44 PM
Who in there right mind ever said Isiah built a powerhouse here? I don't even think Mrs Thomas would agree with that. So stop overblowing the obvious just to make your point seem valid.

Now, tell me what shooters are sitting by the phone waiting for Isiah to offer them a contract? There are about 30 Gm's who could use a pure shooter, so its not that easy to come by.

Ager is not a pure shooter. He's more of a scorer/slasher who can shoot. Not a Shooter who can score. Big difference.
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Rich
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7/5/2006  8:47 PM
We still need another shooter with range and a rebounder.

[Edited by - Rich on 07-05-2006 8:48 PM]
McK1
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7/5/2006  9:32 PM
who is sitting by the phone?

July 2005 Raja Bell and Jerome James happen to be home the same night
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franco12
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7/5/2006  9:40 PM
Posted by McK1:

who is sitting by the phone?

July 2005 Raja Bell and Jerome James happen to be home the same night


not defending- but was Q already on hand prior to the JJ signing?

And was bell known more as a defender than as a shooter at the time?

Shucks- I just want a brent barry/steve kerr/john paxon uni-dimensional role player who can hit threes when teams collapse on Curry and collapes on Marbs & Francis.

If we are going with Francis and Marbury- our best three point shooter is Nate- so are you telling me we will have three guys who are all under 6'1" in sneakers in the PG, SG & SF positions?
martin
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7/5/2006  9:45 PM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by McK1:

who is sitting by the phone?

July 2005 Raja Bell and Jerome James happen to be home the same night


not defending- but was Q already on hand prior to the JJ signing?

And was bell known more as a defender than as a shooter at the time?

Shucks- I just want a brent barry/steve kerr/john paxon uni-dimensional role player who can hit threes when teams collapse on Curry and collapes on Marbs & Francis.

If we are going with Francis and Marbury- our best three point shooter is Nate- so are you telling me we will have three guys who are all under 6'1" in sneakers in the PG, SG & SF positions?

Q came in the draft day trade for KT and Nate. JJ was after in July.
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McK1
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7/5/2006  9:46 PM
yep. talk at the time was Q at the 3. Bell shot the ball well his last season in Utah.

04 summer Brent Barry was a free agent when Isiah signed Vin Baker to the mid. and with a Brent you get a guy who not only could shoot but can pass the ball as well

its the target





[Edited by - McK1 on 07-05-2006 9:47 PM]
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Killa4luv
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7/5/2006  9:48 PM
Posted by McK1:

who is sitting by the phone?

July 2005 Raja Bell and Jerome James happen to be home the same night

Raja Bell was never known as a shooter. He was a defensive player with a avg. shot.

He is benefitting from the D'antoni effect. Just like Q.
Killa4luv
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7/5/2006  9:50 PM
Crawford is a good shooter, when used properly; and using him as a pg is not using him properly, imo.
McK1
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7/5/2006  9:51 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by McK1:

who is sitting by the phone?

July 2005 Raja Bell and Jerome James happen to be home the same night

Raja Bell was never known as a shooter. He was a defensive player with a avg. shot.

He is benefitting from the D'antoni effect. Just like Q.

are you sure its just D'Antoni.

his last season in Utah

45-40-75 fromn the field 12 ppg

his numbers from 3 went up in Phx but he left the Jazz pretty good from outside

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/raja_bell/index.html

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-05-2006 9:51 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
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