The following is something I posted this morning in alt...knicks. It doesn't take into account Isiah's Marbury recent comments on the SAS show this morning but IMO it doesn't make sense that ISIAH is also in hot water with Dolan at this point if what Dolan said yesterday is the entire story.

Sooo... I caught Al Troutwig's MSG interview with Isiah and Dolan this morning. I left hating them as much as ever.

In summary, they said that they based the firing upon these four criteria

1. Larry violating company policy about using the media to communicate with other employees almost from the get go.

2. Larry demanding that six players with 180 mil locked up in salary (Capn's guess: Marbury, Francis, James, Taylor, and Rose are definitely on the list. Who's the 6th? Woods?) get waived or traded this offseason... despite the fact that Larry (they claim) initiated the Francis and Rose trades.

3. Larry not admitting his mistakes in the season and not promising to be different next season in order to "move forward"

4. Larry going over Isiah's head and angling for his job Seems like pretty damning evidence right??? Until you factor in the elephant in the room... the guy whose name was not once brought up in the entire interview and (looking on the transcript) was only named once in passing the day before.

Stephon Marbury. Insert him into the criteria above, and how the brass has dealt with him vs. Larry, into the equation and the waters get a whole lot muddier.

1. In Orlando Marbury comes out guns blazing about Brown's system and Brown retaliates. Marbury sets the standard for breaking company policy and does so with impunity. Brown responds in kind and is silenced by Dolan. The same playing out of events happens in the spring with Marbury basically saying he won't play for Brown and Brown retaliating and getting shot down. Now, granted he didn't have to take the "I know you are but what am I" route but it exposed the stronghold that Marbury has on management and the double standard in the organization that made it very difficult for the coach to operate.

Even now in the summer Marbury seems to be free to give his 2c on the Knicks while a gag order is placed on Brown.

2. Brown demands Jalen and Francis... begs for them according to Isiah and Dolan. Again, knowing Larry Brown and the players he typically enjoys coaching this is only believeable if he wants these guys FOR MARBURY... or Taylor James etc... In Troutwig's interview Isiah himself said that the Rose and Francis deals were NOT NECESSARILY his decision. WTF does NOT NECESSARILY mean??? Capn' speculates that at this point Larry wanted Marbury gone at all costs and was willing to
accept dealing with one of them over Marbury. When these trades happened and Marbury was still here he revolted and the brass put out the story "but you wanted them here Larry..."

Brown went into the Thursday meeting with Dolan and Zeke demanding that (Marbury, Francis, Taylor etc.) all be waved or traded. Not the most professional thing to do but I suspect after the above situations and the two months of leaving him dangling went down he was at the end of
his rope on how to resolve the situation.

3. Larry stood his ground in the meeting. He does not admit his mistakes because Isiah and Zeke are not going to admit that their treatment of Marbury is preferential and that he did not want Rose and Taylor in and of themselves.

4. Thomas wasn't going to give Brown an environment he could coach in and Brown said **** it, it's him or me fellas. I also find the charge that Larry was attempting to make trades dubious because I'm sure he's not legally able to _actually_ get anything done.

Now keep in mind, even in Brown's best case scenario when he was slighted he certainly responded in a vindictive manner. But can you really blame him here? Furthermore, if the brass thinks that Brown didn't live up to his contract then that's there perogative. But the bottom line is that there were not addressed about the people STILL WITH this franchise. What was Marbury's role in this? How is management going to respond to this preferential treatment. How is Isiah going to deal with players that don't get along with Marbury... because there are quite a few apparently? What were Brown's ACTUAL demands and what was Isiah's role in the Rose/Francis trades? Those have Isiah's stench all over them. What are the criteria by which Isiah succeeds this season? Al threw up a lot of softballs in that "no holds barred, ask anything" interview and A LOT of things have still been left unanswered as our franchise looks to "move forward".

Posted by Allanfan20:

I don't think anyone knows what's really going on with this team, besides Bonn. It's over now though, and Isiah may very well be gone in December.

Posted by McK1:

Posted by crzymdups:

so, everything was peachy until Orlando? We were 7-21 and everything was just fine and then Marbury blew up the season?

isn't it odd that Marbury spouting off and then being allowed to run some screen and rolls and take lead on the scoring led to our only prolonged winning streak of the season? and that when Marbury played "selfishly" and the "wrong way" everyone on the team looked better? including Frye's first 30pt game, a 23pt 15reb game for Lee, three straight 20pt games for Craw, 3 straight 15pt+ games for Mo Taylor, etc. that must've infuriated Brown, too.

Frye scored 30 in December. whats interesting is that when NY was playing the right way, Frye's scoring was consistent

during the streak

10 30 15 16 8 12


[Edited by - McK1 on 06-28-2006 12:12 PM]

Posted by martin:

I have a question? What's wrong with being critical of a player in the press? Most all coaches do it and in NY, LA, CHI it's more prominent cause of the media but I don't see how it has anything to do with anything, 'cept of course to Dolan and his rules.

"Kendall's not totally happy under the circumstances, and we understand that. We may not be totally happy with the money we're paying him."

-- George Karl

"I wouldn't mind running into him in a dark alley somewhere, and then we'd see how much smack he's gonna talk. Normally, I wouldn't say anything about George, but I'm tired of holding my tongue. I would have done anything to get away from George Karl. I would have played in Baghdad.... Judgment Day will come, and he'll have to meet his maker. All of the characters he tried to destroy, he'll have to pay for."

--Kendell Gill

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by Nalod:

Posted by crzymdups:

for that matter, what's wrong with firing a coach who does a horrible job?

I can at least respect Dolan if he said "larry sucks, he's fired for his record"!

But the weaseling going on for the last 46 days is really pathetic.

That's the way most rational knicks fans feel. If you want to fire someone, respect them, get rid of them and then move on. But dragging things out for days trying to get them to violate a contract or leading them out by the hand of security guards is embarrassing. Not to mention it hurts us the next time we would like to go out and hire another coach(should that happen)

Strangely, as long as Dolan is the owner, every single coach who is offered a job is going to want a double-steeled, iron-clad, bulletproof, waterproof, air-tight contract that guarentees every single $$ just in case. Which could be interpretted as lame-duck.

Originally posted by Bonn1997:

Originally posted by Allanfan20:

I don't think anyone knows what's really going on with this team, besides Bonn. It's over now though, and Isiah may very well be gone in December.

ROFL. The only thing I know is that the Knicks will probably never be good in my lifetime.