Brown saw it coming
BY GREG LOGAN
Newsday Staff Writer

June 28, 2006


Larry Brown knew the Knicks wanted him to quit long before the story broke May 14 that owner James Dolan was considering a buyout of the remaining $40 million of his contract. Brown even told team president Isiah Thomas, who will take over as coach, that he believed the Knicks were trying to force him out by their resistance to the changes he wanted to make.

The handwriting was on the wall a few days after the Knicks' 23-59 season ended. On the day after the final game, Brown and Thomas met with beat writers and agreed the team had to change. But a person familiar with Brown's situation said that when they met three or four days later to discuss offseason moves, Thomas said, "We're doing nothing."

Thomas told Brown that neither the midlevel salary-cap exception worth about $5 million nor the $1.75-million exception was available to sign free agents. He said Brown did a terrible job and should focus on coaching the same group of players.

Brown's response was, "You're trying to get me to quit."

In a meeting with beat writers Monday, Dolan, Thomas and Madison Square Garden sports operations head Steve Mills said Brown came to them with a demand to waive or buy out five players with a combined salary of $180 million. A Garden official revised that figure downward yesterday.

The players in question, according to persons on both sides of the dispute, were Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, Jerome James, Jalen Rose and Maurice Taylor. Their combined contracts are slightly less than $160 million.

But the person familiar with Brown's situation said his request was misrepresented by Dolan and Thomas. When they told him to coach the same roster, he said he wouldn't play Rose and Taylor. Both players are in the final year of their deals and can be traded to teams looking to clear cap space, which is what likely will happen even with Thomas as coach.

Rather than rely on veterans, Brown told Thomas he would play last season's three rookies, Channing Frye, David Lee and Nate Robinson, plus the players they get in tonight's draft and said the Knicks "would be better."

Brown's problems with Marbury, Francis and James were well documented last season, and he undoubtedly would have welcomed a trade for all of them. Whether he asked the Knicks to waive them and eat their combined $132 million in salary is a matter of conjecture that surely will come up during the arbitration process headed by NBA commissioner David Stern to resolve their contractual dispute.

But when Brown was hired 11 months ago, the person familiar with his situation said, Dolan and Thomas told him, "This will be your team." They understood progress might not come easily the first season.

When Brown lost their support for the changes he wanted, he was convinced their only motive was to discredit him and supplant him with Thomas as coach of the players he hand-picked.

In Brown's meeting with Dolan last Thursday, he never looked at the paper the owner had listing conditions under which Brown supposedly could retain his job. That was because it was obvious to Brown that they didn't want him under the same circumstances to which they agreed when he was hired.

The succession to Thomas as coach, Brown believed, was in the works all along. Contrary to one published report, a person with knowledge of the Knicks' situation said Dolan did not surprise Thomas on Monday with his one-year ultimatum to show "significant progress."

After all, the owner would have been violating his own rules against communicating to employees through the media.

Newsday.com


Now Larry's side is out a litle bit...who's lying? who knows?

[Edited by - joec32033 on 06-28-2006 09:20 AM]

Sounds about right. The Knicks made a big splash, offered Larry $50M, and promised him the world.

I see the flip side that Larry might have had unreasonable requests, but I certainly think the Isiah in begging Larry to come here promised him to field a team that Larry desired.

all talk, both sides at this point. he said it time and time again during the season only to see Frye not even get the start.

Look back at the season...larry was all talk.

I no longer believe anything he says.

From now on, it's all about results.

LB 23 wins, Zeke ??

one thing for sure, LB and Dolan truly hate Each Other.
Zeke is somewhere inbetween.

I think LB is full of BS about playing the youngs this season. So then what was last season? 82 games of tryouts? You dont do that when you are getting paid 50 million.

Also, what makes him so sure Zeke was plotting to be the coach all along? Why sign Brown? Why pay him so much money? He dug his own grave by opening that big mouth of his and sending this franchise into further turmoil. He has no class.

Posted by Killa4luv:

This is bull****.
Isiah Thomas wanted to caoch the team all along?
With an ultimatum to improve or else, and with only 1 year to show significant progress or he's fired?
Yeah, force yourself into a corner and put your professional career on the line?
Yeah, sign someone to a $50 million dollar contract because you want to coach the team all along.
Yeah, waive 5 players and $160 million, thats a very reasonable thing to do. PLus you have to replace those players. Makes tons of sense guys.

If any of you guys believe that, its a testament to how far Brown's catheter is down your throats.

At least Dolan and Isiah came out and publicly stated their opinions. Not have some beat writer write a story quoting "a person close to the situation".

What about the rose and francis trades?
What about the request for him to shut his trap?
What about his piss poor performance as a coach all season long?
What about trying to make trades?

He didn't even deny that he requested to waive 6 players, or any of the other damning claims against him. If he didn't do that stuff he would be up in arms right now, you know he loves talking to the media. I don't buy it at all, he didn't even dispute anything, but came with some weak theory that ISiah wants to coach the team all along. It makes absolutely no sense.

Where are the answers to those questions?




[Edited by - killa4luv on 06-28-2006 09:34 AM]

Someone on realgm said it best-that is where I found the article-Larry isn't/can't say alot. He may be saving it for the hearing. Dolan has let out ALOT of information about what he is going to do in the "arbitration?" process...

Someone on realgm also said that Zeke is/was pushing Dolan to just let Larry go (and BTW, Stern was on Mike and Mike this morning and he said noone from the Knicks has contacted him yet on this situation to arbitrate)and give him his money. Could it man maybe Zeke doesn't want some stuff to get out? Sure. It could also mean he just doesn't want this hanging over his head over the off-season or the begining of the season.

Posted by Killa4luv:

This is bull****.
Isiah Thomas wanted to caoch the team all along?
With an ultimatum to improve or else, and with only 1 year to show significant progress or he's fired?
Yeah, force yourself into a corner and put your professional career on the line?
Yeah, sign someone to a $50 million dollar contract because you want to coach the team all along.
Yeah, waive 5 players and $160 million, thats a very reasonable thing to do. PLus you have to replace those players. Makes tons of sense guys.

If any of you guys believe that, its a testament to how far Brown's catheter is down your throats.

At least Dolan and Isiah came out and publicly stated their opinions. Not have some beat writer write a story quoting "a person close to the situation".

What about the rose and francis trades?
What about the request for him to shut his trap?
What about his piss poor performance as a coach all season long?
What about trying to make trades?

He didn't even deny that he requested to waive 6 players, or any of the other damning claims against him. If he didn't do that stuff he would be up in arms right now, you know he loves talking to the media. I don't buy it at all, he didn't even dispute anything, but came with some weak theory that ISiah wants to coach the team all along. It makes absolutely no sense.

Where are the answers to those questions?

[Edited by - killa4luv on 06-28-2006 09:34 AM]

I think you read the article wrong.... it implied that Isiah coaching was "in the works" meaning it was not a surprise to Isiah on natinal TV or that maybe during the 40-day LB watch Dolan and Isiah had many discussions and Dolan told him somewhere then that he was coach.... Not that the decision to have Isiah coach came after the LB meeting a few days ago.

larry can't talk b/c he has his arbitration hearing set up. dolan and isiah wanted brown to sign a document admitting his mistakes so they can fire him and then have proof of "just cause". there was no intention of retaining brown's services. secondly, with their barbara walters special, dolan laid out many reasons why they wanted to get rid of lb yet he also said that he had a plan to bring him back. if he did all those things, then why even entertain the thought of bringing him back? there are more holes to their "presentation" but that's for another thread. and i won't even get into the absolute disgusting and pathetic way they treated francis and jalen in this situation.

here's the word out of the garden - isiah didn't want lb gone. but isiah thought he was going to be able to hire another coach (hence the donovan rumors). dolan making him coach caught him COMPLETELY off guard and when dolan announced PUBLICLY he had one year, he was shell shocked. that's why he looked totally dumbfounded and castrated on sportsdesk and sounded so depressed on stephen a. smith's interview.

this was not part of the plan - something isiah has repeatedly said. and dolan is working off the major anti-isiah sentiment from the fanbase. they've been telling him for months and months what the feedback from season ticket holders were (how pretty much everyone wanted isiah gone) and that's where the isiah "demotion" came about. (resulting in isiah saying he was "ticked") he's also hedging his bets b/c of the anucha thing. you see, they figure the anucha case will take a year to wrap up and they feel they would be in a rock and hard place firing isiah, not only b/c of the anucha case (where dolan and mills are both cited) but also that would give lb's appeal some legs. if not, isiah would've been fired as well.

and with dolan firing him for "just cause", and lb appealing it, there's a chance whatever insurance the garden put on lb's contract could pay the remaining balance b/c a claim was brought against it.

dolan is a dummy, but he has smart lawyers.

as for what really happened between lb and isiah/dolan? nobody will really know but lb will tell his side of the story after the arbitration and then we're left to pick sides. many already believe everything isiah and dolan fed them on monday even before lb gets a chance to talk. and i think that's a bit hypocritical b/c if lb is a snake and liar, isiah and dolan is every bit a snake and liar as well.

Posted by Rich:

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by Rich:

Larry has to contact Stern first. He's the one with a grievance.

No. The Knicks aren't going to pay a garaunteed contract. They want to get out of it. Larry's money is garaunteed. The Knicks are the ones who have to contact Stern.

They fired him "for cause." If Larry wants his money, he has to initiate the process.

The Knicks have to prove the "cause" aspect of it. They took the initiative, Larry's money is garaunteed until the Knicks prove otherwise to Stern. It's the Knicks with the grievance not Larry.

Posted by djsunyc:

larry can't talk b/c he has his arbitration hearing set up. dolan and isiah wanted brown to sign a document admitting his mistakes so they can fire him and then have proof of "just cause". there was no intention of retaining brown's services. secondly, with their barbara walters special, dolan laid out many reasons why they wanted to get rid of lb yet he also said that he had a plan to bring him back. if he did all those things, then why even entertain the thought of bringing him back? there are more holes to their "presentation" but that's for another thread. and i won't even get into the absolute disgusting and pathetic way they treated francis and jalen in this situation.

here's the word out of the garden - isiah didn't want lb gone. but isiah thought he was going to be able to hire another coach (hence the donovan rumors). dolan making him coach caught him COMPLETELY off guard and when dolan announced PUBLICLY he had one year, he was shell shocked. that's why he looked totally dumbfounded and castrated on sportsdesk and sounded so depressed on stephen a. smith's interview.

this was not part of the plan - something isiah has repeatedly said. and dolan is working off the major anti-isiah sentiment from the fanbase. they've been telling him for months and months what the feedback from season ticket holders were (how pretty much everyone wanted isiah gone) and that's where the isiah "demotion" came about. (resulting in isiah saying he was "ticked") he's also hedging his bets b/c of the anucha thing. you see, they figure the anucha case will take a year to wrap up and they feel they would be in a rock and hard place firing isiah, not only b/c of the anucha case (where dolan and mills are both cited) but also that would give lb's appeal some legs. if not, isiah would've been fired as well.

and with dolan firing him for "just cause", and lb appealing it, there's a chance whatever insurance the garden put on lb's contract could pay the remaining balance b/c a claim was brought against it.

dolan is a dummy, but he has smart lawyers.

as for what really happened between lb and isiah/dolan? nobody will really know but lb will tell his side of the story after the arbitration and then we're left to pick sides. many already believe everything isiah and dolan fed them on monday even before lb gets a chance to talk. and i think that's a bit hypocritical b/c if lb is a snake and liar, isiah and dolan is every bit a snake and liar as well.

thanks. Sounds about right.

Posted by Rich:

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by Rich:

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by Rich:

Larry has to contact Stern first. He's the one with a grievance.

No. The Knicks aren't going to pay a garaunteed contract. They want to get out of it. Larry's money is garaunteed. The Knicks are the ones who have to contact Stern.

They fired him "for cause." If Larry wants his money, he has to initiate the process.

The Knicks have to prove the "cause" aspect of it. They took the initiative, Larry's money is garaunteed until the Knicks prove otherwise to Stern. It's the Knicks with the grievance not Larry.

Do you have proof of that, because that's not how any legal process works.

Employers often claim they had "just cause" for terminating someone's employment. If you can prove that you had a legally sufficient reason to fire an employee, you will not have to give the notice set out in the Employment Standards Act, reasonable notice of termination , or severance pay in lieu of notice.

http://www.lawyers-bc.com/wrongdis/articles/cause.htm

[Edited by - joec32033 on 06-28-2006 10:15 AM]