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the positive side of LB going bye-bye
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BRIGGS
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6/22/2006  8:20 PM
hopefully we can continue the path of acquiring young prospects


there is a stronger likelihood Isiah will actually play them consistently



hopefully we dont see much of JJ Malik Rose and Mo Taylor

the question can francis and starbury co-exsist--no Stevie got to go
RIP Crushalot😞
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simrud
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6/22/2006  8:28 PM
IT gets exposed is one.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
misterearl
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6/22/2006  8:30 PM
Top Five Reasons To Look Ahead to The Future

5. Somewhere Bill Davidson is smiling

4. No more Larry sneaking behind the team President to make a counter offer on a potential transaction with another franchise

3. The Greenburgh Police Department can get back to directing traffic

2. No more sniping at the young Knicks players in the press

1. No more starting lineups based on a players hometown

once a knick always a knick
joec32033
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6/22/2006  8:31 PM
I will not consider a couple 35 win seasons and then we have to start over again an improvement, even if it is more wins.

My perspective is Zeke is going to coach and GM for the good of his job. That means the rooks and the picks we have are in danger of going bye-bye for 2nd tier stars, IMO.
~You can't run from who you are.~
BlueSeats
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6/22/2006  8:40 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

hopefully we can continue the path of acquiring young prospects


there is a stronger likelihood Isiah will actually play them consistently

Because starting Francis and Marbury together with JC off the bench will open things up for Nate/

Because Lee will start over Jalen (who reportedly Isiah doesn't want to trade) QR and QW will open time for Lee?

Because Curry and Jerome will leave a lot of time for Butler?

Aside from Frye at PF, I see a lot of competition for the youth, and that's before we add two more draft picks.

I certainly hope and expect we'll see more of Frye and Lee this year (and I think we'd have seen a lot more of Frye last year too if he hadn't have gotten injured), but I'm not sure there's gonna be many minutes to spare for any new guys.

Not if people want defined roles and consistent rotations anyway.

And of course I do expect some trades to clean up the roster. In the tradition of Van Horn, TT, and KT.... Q-Rich has gotta go.
crzymdups
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6/22/2006  8:41 PM
Posted by joec32033:


My perspective is Zeke is going to coach and GM for the good of his job. That means the rooks and the picks we have are in danger of going bye-bye for 2nd tier stars, IMO.

yeah, I really hope that's not what happens, but it's a valid concern. I mean this is Dolan's atmosphere he's created - win now or I'll pay you to walk away. Remember Isiah's first press conference? a reporter asked how long it would take to get the Knicks to the playoffs and Isiah started talking about how it would take a long time to build with the draft and get rid of some bad contracts - Dolan cut him off and said, "we're making the playoffs this year!" with a big goofy smile on his face.

I would hope Zeke has Dolan's ear enough now so that he can try to keep adding young players through the draft. use Jalen, MoT and Francis however you want, but keep all future picks and keep adding through the draft.

I'm still worried we'll have a silly trade next Wednesday night.
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joec32033
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6/22/2006  8:51 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by joec32033:


My perspective is Zeke is going to coach and GM for the good of his job. That means the rooks and the picks we have are in danger of going bye-bye for 2nd tier stars, IMO.

yeah, I really hope that's not what happens, but it's a valid concern. I mean this is Dolan's atmosphere he's created - win now or I'll pay you to walk away. Remember Isiah's first press conference? a reporter asked how long it would take to get the Knicks to the playoffs and Isiah started talking about how it would take a long time to build with the draft and get rid of some bad contracts - Dolan cut him off and said, "we're making the playoffs this year!" with a big goofy smile on his face.

I would hope Zeke has Dolan's ear enough now so that he can try to keep adding young players through the draft. use Jalen, MoT and Francis however you want, but keep all future picks and keep adding through the draft.

I'm still worried we'll have a silly trade next Wednesday night.

Bro, if a everything I heard is right about Zeke is coaching for his NBA career now, it is almost a given that most of the rooks and picks are gone.
~You can't run from who you are.~
nyk4ever
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6/22/2006  8:55 PM
This idea that Isiah is going to develop youth is a bit of a reach. Isiah is coaching to save his job and to save his reputation in the NBA. The man is going to be coaching to win every second, every minute, and every game he coaches in. As hard as Isiah will be trying to get wins and success out of this team, it just won't come because as this team is built, it's just not conducive to winning.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 06-22-2006 8:55 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
misterearl
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6/22/2006  9:10 PM
nyk4ever - so let me get this straight. the "image-conscious" Isiah can buy MORE time for himself in the eyes of the fans and media by playing a bunch of veterans INSTEAD of a young crop of talented yoots that HE selected?

Okayfine
once a knick always a knick
BlueSeats
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6/22/2006  9:20 PM
Posted by misterearl:

nyk4ever - so let me get this straight. the "image-conscious" Isiah can buy MORE time for himself in the eyes of the fans and media by playing a bunch of veterans INSTEAD of a young crop of talented yoots that HE selected?

Okayfine

what people don't get is that developing our kids is crucial for our long term success, but MAXIMIZING our vets is crucial for our short term success.

For instance it's not absurd to expect to have gone farther last year or this wis Francis over Nate and one of the Qs over lee and a bruiser up front next to Curry.

And the thing is the development of the kids is not always best served by rushing the process. Putting them into roles they're not prepared to handle is not in their best interests. Maximizing our vetersns while developing our youth is in the best interests of everyone.

And when people talk about youth vs vets I'm not even convinced they mean the same thing. Does it mean Nate starts over Marbury? Butler over Curry? What are JC, QR and QW (who are 24-26) -- youth or vets?
BRIGGS
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6/22/2006  9:21 PM
Posted by misterearl:

nyk4ever - so let me get this straight. the "image-conscious" Isiah can buy MORE time for himself in the eyes of the fans and media by playing a bunch of veterans INSTEAD of a young crop of talented yoots that HE selected?

Okayfine


All I ask for is cohesion. If we dont have a shaq ans awade, we can have 10 deep, 10 guys who can stay together who build a team. its a process it took 5 years WITH ewing to get good. It takes time, but teams are rewarded in many cases for building 2-3 pieces a years for 3 years or so and keeping it together
RIP Crushalot😞
buddapaw
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6/22/2006  9:23 PM
Did you not see our so-called vets last year?
"Low Percentage Shots r US, these are our Knicks" "NY KNICKS the cure for basketball fanatic"
misterearl
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6/22/2006  9:28 PM
>>its a process it took 5 years WITH ewing to get good. It takes time, but teams are rewarded in many cases for building 2-3 pieces a years for 3 years or so and keeping it together

BlueSeats - now you have me confused. You think Isiah is more concerned with short teram wins instead of buidling a future with the young guys HE selected?

Or is it you just question what strategy he has in mind for the long haul?

A little help please

Given your scvhedule .... In your mind, How much time does Isiah deserve as coach and GM?

what are the Knicks benchmarks for the next 2-3 seasons?
once a knick always a knick
joec32033
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6/22/2006  9:37 PM
Posted by misterearl:

nyk4ever - so let me get this straight. the "image-conscious" Isiah can buy MORE time for himself in the eyes of the fans and media by playing a bunch of veterans INSTEAD of a young crop of talented yoots that HE selected?

Okayfine

Bro, it's a catch 22 for him. He has to win. He has no time to develop the youth he drafted now. Historically, you don't win of you develop youth. He doesn't win he gets fired.
~You can't run from who you are.~
Rich
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6/22/2006  9:39 PM
Given the reasonable alternatives in Dolan's world, there is no negative side.
nyk4ever
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6/22/2006  9:58 PM
Posted by misterearl:

nyk4ever - so let me get this straight. the "image-conscious" Isiah can buy MORE time for himself in the eyes of the fans and media by playing a bunch of veterans INSTEAD of a young crop of talented yoots that HE selected?

Okayfine

This has nothing to do with the fans and the media anymore, this has to do with Isiah putting up wins and getting somewhere in the playoffs with the team he constructed. He's not going to do ANY of that if he develops youth and if he doesn't do any of that he will be fired. This idea Isiah will be developing youth just isn't going to happen, he has to win as many games as possible to show Dolan he is worth keeping around.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
misterearl
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6/22/2006  10:13 PM
Terror Alert - Orange

NYK4ever - do you think the expectations for Isiah are equal to what they would have been with Larry Brown?

Or are they accelerated/ elevated by Brown's flap with Dolan and his departure?

Only the Knicks could upstage the Heat winnning a championship


once a knick always a knick
BlueSeats
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6/22/2006  10:16 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
This has nothing to do with the fans and the media anymore, this has to do with Isiah putting up wins and getting somewhere in the playoffs with the team he constructed. He's not going to do ANY of that if he develops youth and if he doesn't do any of that he will be fired. This idea Isiah will be developing youth just isn't going to happen, he has to win as many games as possible to show Dolan he is worth keeping around.

By being coach and GM he's put himself in a bit of a pickle. As a coach he could probably buy himself some time by featuring a youth movement. But as a GM he has to justify the outrageous payroll he has amassed on veterans. To make himself look good he's got to make all his players look good.

The problem is going to be keeping everyone happy. just look at the backcourt as a case in point. Francis and Marbury wil both be problems if they don't start. But Crawford has been a good soldier under every coach - he backed brown all year and was said to be close to Wilkens too - yet he never gets his just rewards and toils instead under the entitlement brigade. Then you have Nate, who's mouthy and Brash and played strong roles during our win streak and end of season rally. On effort and attitude I'd like to see the youth (Crawford and Nate) be our guys, but with Marbury and Francis promising to spoil the party an impossibility.

It's a step backward toward roles being assigned by status and salary. It's an example of squeaky wheels getting the grease, and everyone's gonna learn to get squeaky.
gr33d
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6/22/2006  10:32 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by misterearl:

nyk4ever - so let me get this straight. the "image-conscious" Isiah can buy MORE time for himself in the eyes of the fans and media by playing a bunch of veterans INSTEAD of a young crop of talented yoots that HE selected?

Okayfine

This has nothing to do with the fans and the media anymore, this has to do with Isiah putting up wins and getting somewhere in the playoffs with the team he constructed. He's not going to do ANY of that if he develops youth and if he doesn't do any of that he will be fired. This idea Isiah will be developing youth just isn't going to happen, he has to win as many games as possible to show Dolan he is worth keeping around.

In our frountcourt, the kids have more impact then the vets- that was proven this season. Curry, Frye, Butler, Lee OR Mo, JJ & Rose? Easy answer, the kids are more effective, Isiah has no choice here.

The backcourt is where things get complicated because of Steph and Stevie. I can see the intrigue of playing these guys together- they have the natural abilities to be a nice combo. They also have the mental make-up to be a terrible waste of god-given talent. Time will tell, but who's the odd man out, Crawford? No way, Nate sits unless something drastic changes.

The X-factor is small forward, can Q1 hold it down? Or will he continue brickfacing the Garden like last year? Either way, he's relatively young and unless we trade for a replacement he's our 3. Jalen and Woods (or draft pick) can split the difference of pt.





"If you ain't first, you're last" - Ricky Bobby
nyk4ever
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6/22/2006  10:32 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Terror Alert - Orange

NYK4ever - do you think the expectations for Isiah are equal to what they would have been with Larry Brown?

Or are they accelerated/ elevated by Brown's flap with Dolan and his departure?

Only the Knicks could upstage the Heat winnning a championship

Haha, aint that the truth Earl. I think the expectations are higher and will be higher for Isiah because this is HIS team, he's the one who put them together and he's the one who brought them to this team. I also think the expectations are highter because Isiah has coached before and people are going to say alright, you think your such a great coach, you want to play GM and Coach, well let's see you put up a good year here.

I ALMOST kinda feel bad for Isiah, I change my stance from earlier in the day. I still think part of him wants to coach the Knicks but under these conditions he'd be crazy wanting to coach this way.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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