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Another year, another celebration by a team other then the Knicks
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nyk4ever
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6/21/2006  12:30 AM
Another season is complete in the NBA books and another year a team other then our beloved New York Knicks wins the championship. Not only does any team win the championship, a team whom the Knicks have had been to battle with for years and a series chock full of ex-Knicks; Shandon Anderson, Michael Doleac on the Heat side and Keith Van Horn on the Mavs side. Not only are the ex-Knick players represented in the finals, Pat Riley, the man who so royally screwed when he faxed in his resignation in the mid-90's, wins the championship for the Heat, a team whom the Knicks had battled for the years in the late-90's. Watching players like Ewing, Houston, Johnson, Childs, Oakley, Ward led by Jeff Van Gundy go toe-to-toe with Mourning, Hardaway, Majerle, PJ Brown, Mashburn led by Pat Riley. It makes me sick to think that Alonzo Mourning and Pat Riley have gotten a title before the Knicks did.

This all makes me wonder. Where the hell is our team headed? If you take a look at how the playoffs and the finals went, defense was a huge part of the reason teams got to where they did. With the way the Knicks are currently constructed and are currently headed, defense is a last priority for the Knicks. A lot of people are infatuated by the Phoenix Suns style of offense, it's great to watch, but defense wins in this league. I look at a player like Dwayne Wade. He's in his 3rd year and he just won the NBA finals MVP. The Knicks have traded their next 2 first round picks, one of them being the second round pick and could have been numerous players who could make a difference on this team. Make no mistake, this draft isn't deep but there are a ton of players in the top 10 that could help the Knicks. When I look at this team I see a bunch of un-energetic primadonas who are not interested in helping the team win but interested in cashing their next paycheck. Compare that to the never ending enthusiasm and skill that Dwayne Wade brings to the table.

What is our owner doing? James Dolan, the man with never-ending pockets and the man who puts his faith in all the wrong people when it comes to sports. I'll give the guy credit, he likes to ride it out with his GM's (see Glen Sather, Scott Layden and Isiah Thomas) but this is starting to border ridiculous. The Knicks are not and have not been performing like the team they should, according to their pay role since and BEFORE Isiah Thomas took over. Isiah Thomas in no way should be up for Executive of the Year but with the mentality that the owner sets it's hard for GM's to put into effect a plan that they really want to execute. This is New York and Dolan believes that the fans always wants to see a winner on the court, THIS IS A PROBLEM. The Knicks need a full rebuild to get this ship straight.

Where are the Knicks going? With the current state of the organization as it is, James Dolan is leaving Larry Brown, like him, love him, hate him, flapping in the wind and giving 29 other teams in the NBA to laugh all the way to the bank with their luxury-tax checks. James Dolan has to make a decision now about Larry Brown NOW, this has gone on too long, this organization doesn't not have a winning state or mentality and constantly berating and undermining the coaches of this team(Brown, Chaney, Wilkens) is not helping to bring future coaching candidates to this franchise.

James Dolan has ruined this once proud franchise and has effectively made them into the laughing-stock of the NBA. Watching the Pat Riley and Alonzo Mourning dance around the court in Heat uni's is hard enough but then think about the current state of the New York Knicks and the place that James Dolan has put them. Thats enough to make you gag.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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crzymdups
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6/21/2006  12:38 AM
yeah, Van Horn, Doleac and shandon had a huge impact tonight.

I know what you're saying... we have a decent young nucleus, but it really seems that you have to draft a superstar in the draft. I don't think the 2004 (other that Dwight Howard) or the 2006 draft have a game-changing superstar. the 2007 draft is scary if we miss a chance to nab Oden.

If Curry and Frye and Nate and Lee and Craw don't work, fire Isiah, blow it all up and wait to get lucky in the draft. but I don't think this franchise has a real chance until Dolan is gone.

Riley left because he wanted to be GM, Pres and Coach (before Dolan was in charge). maybe we should have let him.
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djsunyc
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6/21/2006  12:44 AM
and until you get that franchise player, you also have to target certain type of guys also. duncan gets drafted by you need a guy like manu. wade got drafted but you need a udonis/zo. you need toughness. you need guys that are mentally and physically tough. and outside of a very small handful, i don't see many of our players as that.
SlimPack
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6/21/2006  12:44 AM
you know, wathcing the heat win like this makes me think that the knicks should keep larry brown afterall. becuase the thing is, we wont be able to get supsterstar like wade, or dirk, so how do we win a championship?
crzymdups
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6/21/2006  12:48 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

and until you get that franchise player, you also have to target certain type of guys also. duncan gets drafted by you need a guy like manu. wade got drafted but you need a udonis/zo. you need toughness. you need guys that are mentally and physically tough. and outside of a very small handful, i don't see many of our players as that.

heat didn't add Haslem or Zo until after they got Wade. I know what you're saying, but sometimes you need a foundation. the reason I am willing to give Isiah a chance is that I think we have a decent foundation of Curry, Frye, Nate, Lee, Craw. If they develop, it won't take much to fine tool the team.

with Brown here, as always in his final season with a team the recriminations have flown and the ny media always blows things out of proportion, but I really don't think things are as bad as the ny media and brown would have us believe.
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crzymdups
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6/21/2006  12:49 AM
Posted by SlimPack:

you know, wathcing the heat win like this makes me think that the knicks should keep larry brown afterall. becuase the thing is, we wont be able to get supsterstar like wade, or dirk, so how do we win a championship?

by firing Brown and hiring a coach who can develop and motivate our players instead of belittling them.
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djsunyc
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6/21/2006  12:49 AM
Posted by SlimPack:

you know, wathcing the heat win like this makes me think that the knicks should keep larry brown afterall. becuase the thing is, we wont be able to get supsterstar like wade, or dirk, so how do we win a championship?

one ONE TEAM has won a title in the past 20+ years without a superstar like the ones you mentioned and that was the larry brown pistons. you can try to make excuses for that team all you want but they beat a shaq/kobe team in 5 games (probably should've been swept) and came within a few minutes of another one.

it is pretty amazing that every other team to win a title since 1980 (probably even before that) has done it with at least one of the best players in the league. but not the 2004 pistons.
crzymdups
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6/21/2006  12:53 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by SlimPack:

you know, wathcing the heat win like this makes me think that the knicks should keep larry brown afterall. becuase the thing is, we wont be able to get supsterstar like wade, or dirk, so how do we win a championship?

one ONE TEAM has won a title in the past 20+ years without a superstar like the ones you mentioned and that was the larry brown pistons. you can try to make excuses for that team all you want but they beat a shaq/kobe team in 5 games (probably should've been swept) and came within a few minutes of another one.

it is pretty amazing that every other team to win a title since 1980 (probably even before that) has done it with at least one of the best players in the league. but not the 2004 pistons.

oh god, can we please stop with that? Brown is not some magical guru. would the Pistons have won in 04 if Derek Fisher hadn't made a miracle shot with .4 seconds in San Antonio to knock out the Spurs? I guess Brown was just working his magic.
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djsunyc
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6/21/2006  12:59 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by SlimPack:

you know, wathcing the heat win like this makes me think that the knicks should keep larry brown afterall. becuase the thing is, we wont be able to get supsterstar like wade, or dirk, so how do we win a championship?

one ONE TEAM has won a title in the past 20+ years without a superstar like the ones you mentioned and that was the larry brown pistons. you can try to make excuses for that team all you want but they beat a shaq/kobe team in 5 games (probably should've been swept) and came within a few minutes of another one.

it is pretty amazing that every other team to win a title since 1980 (probably even before that) has done it with at least one of the best players in the league. but not the 2004 pistons.

oh god, can we please stop with that? Brown is not some magical guru. would the Pistons have won in 04 if Derek Fisher hadn't made a miracle shot with .4 seconds in San Antonio to knock out the Spurs? I guess Brown was just working his magic.

but they didn't.

just like dirk missing the ft in game 3. he missed it.
and howard missing 2 ft's in OT. he missed them.

record books say pistons won the title in 2004. record books also say the head coach was larry brown. record books also say the starting 5 were billups, rip, prince, sheed, and ben. and they beat shaq/kobe and phil.

excuses, excuses, excuses. you don't want to offer lb ANY excuses for how he coached this year but start piling them on for when he was successful.
BlueSeats
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6/21/2006  12:59 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
This all makes me wonder. Where the hell is our team headed?



crzymdups
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6/21/2006  1:02 AM
Posted by djsunyc:


but they didn't.

just like dirk missing the ft in game 3. he missed it.
and howard missing 2 ft's in OT. he missed them.

record books say pistons won the title in 2004. record books also say the head coach was larry brown. record books also say the starting 5 were billups, rip, prince, sheed, and ben. and they beat shaq/kobe and phil.

excuses, excuses, excuses. you don't want to offer lb ANY excuses for how he coached this year but start piling them on for when he was successful.

oh hey, cool, record books!

let's see, going by my record books - only USA coach in the last 30 years not to win a gold medal with a USA basketball team in the Olympics? Guess!
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crzymdups
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6/21/2006  1:05 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:


but they didn't.

just like dirk missing the ft in game 3. he missed it.
and howard missing 2 ft's in OT. he missed them.

record books say pistons won the title in 2004. record books also say the head coach was larry brown. record books also say the starting 5 were billups, rip, prince, sheed, and ben. and they beat shaq/kobe and phil.

excuses, excuses, excuses. you don't want to offer lb ANY excuses for how he coached this year but start piling them on for when he was successful.

oh hey, cool, record books!

let's see, going by my record books - only USA coach in the last 30 years not to win a gold medal with a USA basketball team in the Olympics? Guess!

okay, okay, I'll tell you - LARRY BROWN!

and guess what his excuse was? the roster wasn't built right! only David Stern stopped talking to him in Athens because guess who helped assemble the roster? Larry Brown again!

NBA champ Dwyane Wade barely played. Lebron barely played. Amare barely played. boy, what a crummy roster. what rotten luck for the brilliant godhead of basketball brilliance that is larry brown. poor larry has never made a mistake - he's just been cursed with rosters that didn't play the right way.
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djsunyc
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6/21/2006  1:07 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:


but they didn't.

just like dirk missing the ft in game 3. he missed it.
and howard missing 2 ft's in OT. he missed them.

record books say pistons won the title in 2004. record books also say the head coach was larry brown. record books also say the starting 5 were billups, rip, prince, sheed, and ben. and they beat shaq/kobe and phil.

excuses, excuses, excuses. you don't want to offer lb ANY excuses for how he coached this year but start piling them on for when he was successful.

oh hey, cool, record books!

let's see, going by my record books - only USA coach in the last 30 years not to win a gold medal with a USA basketball team in the Olympics? Guess!

crzy - your attempt to discredit brown is not working. i can respect the fact that you're not a fan of his. i can respect the fact that you thought he did a bad job this year. but he is a GREAT coach and many people more qualified than you and i say that. blue can post that poll from nba gm's and coaches saying brown is great 50 times a day but you probably won't acknowledge it. trying to bring up all his "negatives" is a futile attempt. just leave it as you're not a fan of his and thought he did a bad job for the knicks. his pattern for "bad coaching" (in your opinion) is one year with ny and one summer in athens and that's pretty much it. everything else is based on his personality and not results.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-21-2006 01:08 AM]
crzymdups
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6/21/2006  1:11 AM
Brown has a much longer pattern - Pacers quitting on him in 97 missing the playoffs, only to win 58 games and take the Super Bulls to 7 games in the conf finals in 98 under Bird with no roster changes. had one good season with the Sixers. had one good season with the Pistons. what are his other good seasons? you're saying I am making a case based on two examples, but you are only refuting with one example.
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djsunyc
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6/21/2006  1:14 AM
Posted by crzymdups:

had one good season with the Sixers. had one good season with the Pistons. what are his other good seasons?

i'm going to chalk it up to the adrenalin flowing on this anti-lb kick this late at night. when you wake up and see this, you'll realize that you really didn't mean what you just posted.
crzymdups
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6/21/2006  1:14 AM
sorry, I am big on respecting other people and not tooting one's own horn and avoiding self-martyr-dom. Brown pisses me off. I won't post about him again. but i'll dance a jig when he's fired.
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djsunyc
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6/21/2006  1:17 AM
Posted by crzymdups:

sorry, I am big on respecting other people and not tooting one's own horn and avoiding self-martyr-dom.

not for nothing, but pat riley pretty much gave himself a bj in the post game interview...now go look up lb's speech after the pistons won in 2004.
crzymdups
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6/21/2006  1:18 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by crzymdups:

had one good season with the Sixers. had one good season with the Pistons. what are his other good seasons?

i'm going to chalk it up to the adrenalin flowing on this anti-lb kick this late at night. when you wake up and see this, you'll realize that you really didn't mean what you just posted.

really, the main thing I realized about these finals is that i miss the JVG/Riley days of the Knicks. those were two great coaches who maximized our talent and commanded respect and demanded defense and intensity and pride. I miss that.

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crzymdups
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6/21/2006  1:20 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by crzymdups:

sorry, I am big on respecting other people and not tooting one's own horn and avoiding self-martyr-dom.

not for nothing, but pat riley pretty much gave himself a bj in the post game interview...now go look up lb's speech after the pistons won in 2004.

brown can manipulate the media better than anyone... oops, I promised not to mention him.

riley is arrogant, yet somehow commands respect from his troops. hell, riley deserves to be arrogant. third most rings ever, ridiculous winning percentage, 17 division titles, etc.
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Anji
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6/21/2006  1:21 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by SlimPack:

you know, wathcing the heat win like this makes me think that the knicks should keep larry brown afterall. becuase the thing is, we wont be able to get supsterstar like wade, or dirk, so how do we win a championship?

by firing Brown and hiring a coach who can develop and motivate our players instead of belittling them.


Crazy......... Man you post alot of things I like to read........PIC














(Kidding)



[Edited by - Anji on 06-21-2006 01:21 AM]
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Another year, another celebration by a team other then the Knicks

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