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Better Coach: Riley or Next Town?
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crzymdups
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6/18/2006  11:36 PM
It's often said here, by Brown's steadfast supporters, that the difference in the Pistons/Heat series this year was the absence of Larry Brown. Ignoring the Heat's roster changes (adding Walker, Posey, JWill, etc), has anyone considered that Riley's pressence may have had something to do with the Heat's victory? In the Finals, Riley has made some fantastic defensive adjustments time and again.

In my opinion, as much as I hate the guy for leaving us, Riley is the best coach in the sport. People point to Brown always having winning seasons, but Riley has a history of not only winning seasons, but dominant ones. He's collected 17 division titles in 21 years of coaching, won 50 games 17 times and won 3 championships (...and counting?). He hasn't necessarily gone to front runners, but he's built power houses everywhere he's gone, getting to the Finals in all three of his stops and winning multiple division titles in all 3 of his stops.

Brown has eight 50 win seasons, 7 division titles, and one nba championship in 23 seasons.

Just pointing out that maybe the Pistons demise had less to do with Brown than it did with Riley. Last year's Pistons/Heat series came down to wire, Wade was hurt, etc, but Shaq had major complaints about how he was used. This year, regardless of how he was used, we haven't heard a peep from Shaq, except for him to say that Riley is the best coach he's ever played for and that it was nice to play with a guy who "is straight with you 100% of the time." Whether or not Shaq is happy with his role, Riley has explained it to him and sold it to him. Riley is a great coach, but his players respect him because of the way he treats him, not some mythical reputation. Riley has never lost a team.

I wonder if any of Larry's troops would say he was 100% straight with them?
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crzymdups
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6/18/2006  11:42 PM
Also, despite coaching for just as long as Larry, Riles has adapted to the modern game and relies on a zone defense and three point shooting.
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crzymdups
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6/18/2006  11:43 PM
...and he's won with some players Brown would never touch, working with them despite their flaws: Starks, Toine Walker, Jason Williams, etc.
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oohah
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6/18/2006  11:45 PM
I don't know crzy, Riley is an overrated coach to me. After leaving L.A., he has used his cred to motivate players and he does have a thing for preparedness that I think is good. But he has an achilles heel. Coaching during the game. He is not a good adjuster. He is straight by the numbers, he doesn't throw a wrinkle out there ever.

Look at how Rudy T outcoached him down the stretch of the Finals, and JVG got him again and again even though Riley had better casts. I think he will be out-adjusted by Avery Johnson in this series. And I definitely hope Riley loses. Booooo Riley boooooooooo.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
crzymdups
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6/18/2006  11:54 PM
Rudy T had the superior team. Hakeem was better than Patrick. It was that simple. The Heat/Knicks stuff is a different animal, it was a personal vendetta for the Knicks, it was JVG beating his master who taught him (almost) everything and Ewing was superior to Alonzo and seemed to be in his head. As far as in game adjustments, he makes them perhaps not as well as some others, but he's fantastic at between game adjustments and preparing his team. And he's done a solid job as a GM in Miami as well.

To me, as much as I hate him for leaving, Riley is a master motivator. it's never about the individual failing, it's the team. He never singles a guy out. If Larry had Shaq he'd probably be joking about how bad his free throw shooting is and he'd have benched Walker months ago.
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Rich
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6/19/2006  12:03 AM
Riley is a much better coach because he adapts his philosophy to the players that he has on the roster, unlike Larry who just whines about what he doesn't have.
BlueSeats
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6/19/2006  12:14 AM
I like Riley better than LB, RudyT, JVG, Phil, and Avery Johnson.
djsunyc
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6/19/2006  12:15 AM
riley SAVED the knicks franchise. my vote goes top him over anybody else.
BlueSeats
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6/19/2006  12:17 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

riley SAVED the knicks franchise. my vote goes top him over anybody else.

That's how I look at it too.
djsunyc
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6/19/2006  12:19 AM
it's funny b/c the knicks win 50 games riles first season and then he trades away mark jackson and let's gerald wilkens walk as a free agent. that's the starting backcourt and nobody made a big fuss about it.

yet when lb wants to move some players on a bad team, everyone goes nuts.
oohah
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6/19/2006  12:21 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

it's funny b/c the knicks win 50 games riles first season and then he trades away mark jackson and let's gerald wilkens walk as a free agent. that's the starting backcourt and nobody made a big fuss about it.

yet when lb wants to move some players on a bad team, everyone goes nuts.


Well I went nuts over the Jackson trade. That was so stupid. And the Knicks never even took the Bulls to 7 after....

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
crzymdups
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6/19/2006  12:24 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

it's funny b/c the knicks win 50 games riles first season and then he trades away mark jackson and let's gerald wilkens walk as a free agent. that's the starting backcourt and nobody made a big fuss about it.

yet when lb wants to move some players on a bad team, everyone goes nuts.

it's about respect.


...and if Brown had won 50 games here, maybe I'd listen to him.
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nixluva
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6/19/2006  12:47 AM
I give it to Riley without even BLINKING!!! LB had won a lot of games, but he grinds his teams down mentally. LB's thing works best without superstars. He needs a lot of high energy low ego guys. Riles, is WAY more flexible and versatile. Riles is a SUPERIOR motivator, while LB couldn't motivate a rec league team. LB seems to only be able to win with a certain type of team or players I should say. LB is also a HORRIBLe offensive coach. He's almost NEVER improved a teams offensive production. LB is a great coach, but Riles is just better in every way.

LB could've worked here if we weren't so totally over the cap with long contracts and could clean house. And he'd have to be younger too, cuz at his age, he's not patient enough to see a youth movement to its end. The way he wants to do things now with a bunch of grizzled vets, is not what I want to see at this point, now that we finally have a young team to start building around. Not that we can't have vets, but LB wants to go overboard with it.
djsunyc
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6/19/2006  12:52 AM
i pick riles too but you think riles mental grinding working has anything to do with ewing being on board from day one and wanting to be coached? or shaq being on board and wanting to be coached? if steve nash was the point guard of this team, we would've won ALOT more games.

do you not remember lb's philly team that made the finals? the pg was eric snow. the sf was george lynch. the pf was tyrone hill. and the center was dikembe mutombo. that's motivation.
crzymdups
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6/19/2006  12:54 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

i pick riles too but you think riles mental grinding working has anything to do with ewing being on board from day one and wanting to be coached? or shaq being on board and wanting to be coached? if steve nash was the point guard of this team, we would've won ALOT more games.

do you not remember lb's philly team that made the finals? the pg was eric snow. the sf was george lynch. the pf was tyrone hill. and the center was dikembe mutombo. that's motivation.

it was also the weakest road to the Finals ever, but who's counting.
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Rich
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6/19/2006  12:56 AM
Anyone can win with Steve Nash. Not everyone can win with the collection of player that Riley had to work with in NY. Unlike Brown, he gets the most out of what he has to work with.

Players want to play for Larry because he has a reputation for winning, and he shows respect to his stars.

If Riley coached Marbury he would have found a way to get him to buy into his system from day one, and he would never have dissed him in the press.
djsunyc
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6/19/2006  12:57 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:

i pick riles too but you think riles mental grinding working has anything to do with ewing being on board from day one and wanting to be coached? or shaq being on board and wanting to be coached? if steve nash was the point guard of this team, we would've won ALOT more games.

do you not remember lb's philly team that made the finals? the pg was eric snow. the sf was george lynch. the pf was tyrone hill. and the center was dikembe mutombo. that's motivation.

it was also the weakest road to the Finals ever, but who's counting.

how about '99? should there be an asterisk next to our team b/c it was a strike shortened season?

come on bro, this is stupid. that philly team was the hardest playing team in the league. they were all heart and he got them to be the BEST team in the east. if that were the knicks, NOBODY would be saying it was the weakest road.
BlueSeats
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6/19/2006  1:02 AM

It's like everyday is groundhog day around here...
Posted by nixluva:
while LB couldn't motivate a rec league team.

LB could've worked here if we weren't so totally over the cap with long contracts and could clean house. And he'd have to be younger too, cuz at his age, he's not patient enough to see a youth movement to its end. The way he wants to do things now with a bunch of grizzled vets, is not what I want to see at this point, now that we finally have a young team to start building around. Not that we can't have vets, but LB wants to go overboard with it.


So, yes, Brown was hired because Dumars believed he was the guy to take Detroit to the championship level. But Dumars also believes Brown is the right coach to nurture young players such as Prince, Hamilton, Okur and rookie Darko Milicic.

"The reason we came here was the respect we had for what's been done here and for what the future holds," Brown says. "We have a lot of great young kids, and I like to think I can make a difference in terms of teaching them how to play and the right way to play.

"(Pistons owner Bill Davidson) said it best: 'We want to be successful every year for a long time, and every year come playoff time, we want to have an honest chance to win a championship" That's how I am going to approach it."

Same coach, same approach, different venue. And considering Brown has won more than 60 percent of his games as a coach, maybe that's not such a bad thing.
Brown delivers

Ten NBA teams hired a new head coach this offseason. Of those 10, the
Pistons had the best record last season at 50-32, making Detroit the
choice job when Larry BroWn was looking for employment. But did the
team make the right choice with him? A recent poll of NBA general
managers suggets it Did.

1. Which head coach is the best at developing young players?
Larry Brown 24%
Eric Musselman 14%
Jeff Bzdelik 10%
Paul Silas 10%

2. Which head coach is the best manager/motivator of people?
Phil Jackson 41%
Pat Riley 21%
Larry Brown 19%

3. Who is the best X's and O's coach?
Larry Brown 33%
Jeff Van Gundy 14%
Rick Carlisle 10%
Pat Riley 10%

4. Who is the best head coach in the NBA?
Larry Brown 43%
Gregg Popovich 19%
Phil Jackson 19%

Note: Table made from bar graph.

Source: NBA.com
djsunyc
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6/19/2006  1:04 AM
Posted by Rich:

Anyone can win with Steve Nash. Not everyone can win with the collection of player that Riley had to work with in NY. Unlike Brown, he gets the most out of what he has to work with.

Players want to play for Larry because he has a reputation for winning, and he shows respect to his stars.

If Riley coached Marbury he would have found a way to get him to buy into his system from day one, and he would never have dissed him in the press.

the knicks were a playoff team when riley was hired here.

as soon as he got to miami (a 32 win team before he got there), he traded glen rice for a top 5 center in zo and tim hardaway. they won 42 games.
Rich
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6/19/2006  1:59 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Rich:

Anyone can win with Steve Nash. Not everyone can win with the collection of player that Riley had to work with in NY. Unlike Brown, he gets the most out of what he has to work with.

Players want to play for Larry because he has a reputation for winning, and he shows respect to his stars.

If Riley coached Marbury he would have found a way to get him to buy into his system from day one, and he would never have dissed him in the press.

the knicks were a playoff team when riley was hired here.

as soon as he got to miami (a 32 win team before he got there), he traded glen rice for a top 5 center in zo and tim hardaway. they won 42 games.

But in Riley's first season the Knicks record was 51-31, they finished first in the division, and lost in the conference semi-finals of the playoffs. In the preceeding season it was 39-43, they finished third in the division, and lost in the first round of the playoffs.

That's a pretty impressive improvement.
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