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Islesfan, Fish....for the last time....Brown Wanted Francis & Rose
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bigbeast
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6/15/2006  11:41 AM
This is Brown and Thomas discussing Francis and Rose......

Quote:
"He's exactly what we need," Brown said before the game. "I think it's a no-brainer. I haven't seen a drop-off in his game. We don't have enough ball-handlers, guys that have experience back there."


Quote:
“This is a move that coach and I have been talking about and we are both in agreement. This is a (small forward) spot where he’s had a lot of people trying to fill that void. This is a player that Larry wanted. And I will continue to go out and try to get the players that he wants.”

Nuff said!
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
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Bonn1997
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6/15/2006  12:00 PM
Your quotes are just a couple of examples. No one can look at what Larry actually *said* before or after those trades and think he didn't support them.
Brown took credit for spurring the Francis deal, despite speculation he preferred using Penny Hardaway's contract for Ratliff. "I bugged Isiah when I saw [Francis'] name," Brown said.
Andrew
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6/15/2006  12:02 PM
Regardless of how much LB wanted each player....Isiah is still the GM and ultimatly responsible for the trades.
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nyk4ever
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6/15/2006  12:05 PM
Posted by Andrew:

Regardless of how much LB wanted each player....Isiah is still the GM and ultimatly responsible for the trades.

'Nuff said.

Isiah is the GM and has coveted Rose for YEARS and acquiring a player like Francis is all that Isiah has done since he has been here. These quotes prove absolutely nothing, other then the fact that Larry was swallowing his pride and doing what was best for the team and that was talking up these players that he really didn't want anything to do with.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Allanfan20
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6/15/2006  12:09 PM
Who the F' knows? You can't trust what any of these guys are saying. And who cares? They weren't very good trades in my mind and I think the Knicks brass prolly realize they made a mistake making them. Brown said the Knicks didn't have enough ball handlers. What, Marbury, Crawford and Nate aren't enough? That's garbage. Nobody knows what went behind those doors and actually believe Larry and Isiah is dumb. They are both responsible.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bonn1997
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6/15/2006  12:10 PM
Posted by Andrew:

Regardless of how much LB wanted each player....Isiah is still the GM and ultimatly responsible for the trades.
Of course. It's not an either-or. Every shred of evidence is that they both wanted both players and both deserve blame for their foolish support of these trades. The only reasonable views are to trust nothing said to the media (a view I have no trouble with) or to conclude that Larry definitively wanted both players before the trade (which also seems accurate).


[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 06-15-2006 12:11 PM]
bigbeast
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6/15/2006  12:21 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Andrew:

Regardless of how much LB wanted each player....Isiah is still the GM and ultimatly responsible for the trades.

'Nuff said.

Isiah is the GM and has coveted Rose for YEARS and acquiring a player like Francis is all that Isiah has done since he has been here. These quotes prove absolutely nothing, other then the fact that Larry was swallowing his pride and doing what was best for the team and that was talking up these players that he really didn't want anything to do with.


Trevor? Is that You? You sound absolutely dillusional!

How do you know this for sure? Why do you take Larry's actual words and twist them as if there some kind of riddle that only you and the Next-Town-Brown coalition can dicipher?

The quote is plain as Night. You think Dolan shelled out 40 million for a HOF Puppet?

[Edited by - bigbeast on 06-15-2006 12:28 PM]
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
crzymdups
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6/15/2006  12:22 PM
Posted by Andrew:

Regardless of how much LB wanted each player....Isiah is still the GM and ultimatly responsible for the trades.


Semantics. So what was Larry doing for this entire season that Isiah is responsible for? Because it certainly wasn't what he was hired to do.
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crzymdups
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6/15/2006  12:29 PM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Andrew:

Regardless of how much LB wanted each player....Isiah is still the GM and ultimatly responsible for the trades.

'Nuff said.

Isiah is the GM and has coveted Rose for YEARS and acquiring a player like Francis is all that Isiah has done since he has been here. These quotes prove absolutely nothing, other then the fact that Larry was swallowing his pride and doing what was best for the team and that was talking up these players that he really didn't want anything to do with.


Trevor? Is that You? You sound absolutely dillusional!

How do you know this for sure? Why do you take Larry's actual words and twist them as if there some kind of riddle that only you and the Next-Town-Brown coalition can dicipher?

The quote is plain as Night.

Amen. Also, find the recap after Jalen's first game with the team. Brown practically calls Jalen the second coming. Larry definitely wanted Jalen.

The Francis thing is slightly different - regardless of whether Larry and Isiah both wanted him (which they did), it was clear from day one that Francis was miserable here. They should have had him fail the team physical, BUT I think they wanted to use Francis as a trading chip this summer rather than lose that expiring deal for nothing. I don't agree with that philosophy, but I think that's the only reason to acquire Francis.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06-15-2006 12:31 PM]
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Allanfan20
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6/15/2006  12:32 PM
Brown didn't do a good job. Nobody is denying that. I hated some of the things I saw from him too! I just think we need to give it little more time. Most of us realized it was gonna be ugly.

But we saw the young guys improve and we saw Jamal improve. Heck, the only young one that didn't was Eddy. So lets see what we can do with them next year, with a year under their belt under Larry. Maybe Jamal and Frye add on some muscle and Lee develops that J, along with the confidence in it (Confidence thing goes to Frye as well).

All good coaches are going to drive you crazy, just remember. They all have big egos and are all very demanding and so and so! Nobody is gonna do a better job with this mess. Therefore, I just say stick with it, put last year in the past and lets focus on this freaking summer finally and find a way to get a Knicks jersey onto Reggie Evans!
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Seanc3
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6/15/2006  12:38 PM
First off, lets get one thing straight: Isiah is the GM - these are his deals, whether LB liked/wanted them is one thing, but they are ISIAH'S Deals.

I think the Francis trade went a little like this: LB says to Zeke, deal Marbury. Isiah says can't do it (and not so secretly I don't want to) b/c you need that major name in New York to market and bring fans in. Whether Marbury is hated by knowledgeable fans is one thing, but theres a reason why New York #3 is top 5 jersey seller and #11, #34, etc don't make the list.

Francis is another marquee name, thus Francis in NY takes away Isiah's reason to not trade Marbury. LB gets the lesser of two evils in Francis - not his style of player but a thousand times better than what he was dealing with in Marbury. Yes, he hates/hated Marbury that much.

I think Larry thought getting Francis meant Marbury is gone this summer. Unfortunately for him and Knick fans Isiah and Dolan didn't see it the same way.
crzymdups
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6/15/2006  12:45 PM
Posted by Seanc3:

First off, lets get one thing straight: Isiah is the GM - these are his deals, whether LB liked/wanted them is one thing, but they are ISIAH'S Deals.

I think the Francis trade went a little like this: LB says to Zeke, deal Marbury. Isiah says can't do it (and not so secretly I don't want to) b/c you need that major name in New York to market and bring fans in. Whether Marbury is hated by knowledgeable fans is one thing, but theres a reason why New York #3 is top 5 jersey seller and #11, #34, etc don't make the list.

Francis is another marquee name, thus Francis in NY takes away Isiah's reason to not trade Marbury. LB gets the lesser of two evils in Francis - not his style of player but a thousand times better than what he was dealing with in Marbury. Yes, he hates/hated Marbury that much.

I think Larry thought getting Francis meant Marbury is gone this summer. Unfortunately for him and Knick fans Isiah and Dolan didn't see it the same way.

that's a good point. I think it may have been Thomas' intention, but supposedly Dolan is furious with Brown and blames him for the season.

which, if you consider we had 14 different players start 10 or games and 16 different players start 5 or more games with no major injuries and only two players brought in for mid-season trades... it's ridiculous.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06-15-2006 12:49 PM]
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nyk4ever
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6/15/2006  12:49 PM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Andrew:

Regardless of how much LB wanted each player....Isiah is still the GM and ultimatly responsible for the trades.

'Nuff said.

Isiah is the GM and has coveted Rose for YEARS and acquiring a player like Francis is all that Isiah has done since he has been here. These quotes prove absolutely nothing, other then the fact that Larry was swallowing his pride and doing what was best for the team and that was talking up these players that he really didn't want anything to do with.


Trevor? Is that You? You sound absolutely dillusional!

How do you know this for sure? Why do you take Larry's actual words and twist them as if there some kind of riddle that only you and the Next-Town-Brown coalition can dicipher?

The quote is plain as Night. You think Dolan shelled out 40 million for a HOF Puppet?

[Edited by - bigbeast on 06-15-2006 12:28 PM]

So everything that is said in the press should be taken as fact? Just like when Isiah goes back on forth about whether this team is rebuilding it or not? Face it, your favorite GM is a loose cannon who will do whatever it takes to keep his job. If you can't see that Isiah has coveted and acquired the SAME KIND of player since he got here then your blind. Marbury, Crawford, Curry, Jalen, Francis. Wow, real tough to see there.

The fact that Larry Brown has never liked coaching players like this and Isiah loves these types of players seems to put the issue to rest for me on who pulled the trigger. Anyone who is willing to look at things openly instead of rely on a bunch of stupid quotes during a press conference for a player just brought to thet ballclub will see the trail of breadcrumbs that leads to Isiah.


[Edited by - nyk4ever on 06-15-2006 12:51 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Bonn1997
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6/15/2006  12:52 PM
The fact that Larry Brown has never liked coaching players like this
If you watched Larry's rotations this year, you'd have to conclude that he likes overpaid, lazy veterans a lot more than hardworking young players.
nyk4ever
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6/15/2006  12:53 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
The fact that Larry Brown has never liked coaching players like this
If you watched Larry's rotations this year, you'd have to conclude that he likes overpaid, lazy veterans a lot more than hardworking young players.

Yeah out of a 40 year coaching career, lets take one year and call it fact. Is that what we're doing now?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
McK1
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6/15/2006  12:53 PM
Posted by Seanc3:

First off, lets get one thing straight: Isiah is the GM - these are his deals, whether LB liked/wanted them is one thing, but they are ISIAH'S Deals.

I think the Francis trade went a little like this: LB says to Zeke, deal Marbury. Isiah says can't do it (and not so secretly I don't want to) b/c you need that major name in New York to market and bring fans in. Whether Marbury is hated by knowledgeable fans is one thing, but theres a reason why New York #3 is top 5 jersey seller and #11, #34, etc don't make the list.

Francis is another marquee name, thus Francis in NY takes away Isiah's reason to not trade Marbury. LB gets the lesser of two evils in Francis - not his style of player but a thousand times better than what he was dealing with in Marbury. Yes, he hates/hated Marbury that much.

I think Larry thought getting Francis meant Marbury is gone this summer. Unfortunately for him and Knick fans Isiah and Dolan didn't see it the same way.

agree with this.

Dolan sees what Isiah tells him and last we heard Isiah believes playing them together will "be so crazy it might just work."

however LB and a segment of the fan group do not look forward to watching Spy vs Spy played out on the court by Steph and Steve.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
crzymdups
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6/15/2006  12:54 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:


So everything that is said in the press should be taken as fact? Just like when Isiah goes back on forth about whether this team is rebuilding it or not? Face it, your favorite GM is a loose cannon who will do whatever it takes to keep his job. If you can't see that Isiah has coveted and acquired the SAME KIND of player since he got here then your blind. Marbury, Crawford, Curry, Jalen, Francis. Wow, real tough to see there.

The fact that Larry Brown has never liked coaching players like this and Isiah loves these types of players seems to put the issue to rest for me on who pulled the trigger. Anyone who is willing to look at things openly instead of rely on a bunch of stupid quotes during a press conference for a player just brought to thet ballclub will see the trail of breadcrumbs that leads to Isiah.

"Believe everything you read in the press"??!??!? We're talking about DIRECT quotes from Larry Brown.
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bigbeast
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6/15/2006  12:55 PM
Posted by Seanc3:

First off, lets get one thing straight: Isiah is the GM - these are his deals, whether LB liked/wanted them is one thing, but they are ISIAH'S Deals.

I think the Francis trade went a little like this: LB says to Zeke, deal Marbury. Isiah says can't do it (and not so secretly I don't want to) b/c you need that major name in New York to market and bring fans in. Whether Marbury is hated by knowledgeable fans is one thing, but theres a reason why New York #3 is top 5 jersey seller and #11, #34, etc don't make the list.

Francis is another marquee name, thus Francis in NY takes away Isiah's reason to not trade Marbury. LB gets the lesser of two evils in Francis - not his style of player but a thousand times better than what he was dealing with in Marbury. Yes, he hates/hated Marbury that much.

I think Larry thought getting Francis meant Marbury is gone this summer. Unfortunately for him and Knick fans Isiah and Dolan didn't see it the same way.


See, thats the problem with you Next-Town-Brown supporters....You ignore the facts (quotes) and make up fiction that fits with your personal ideologies that Teflon Brown has ablolutely no blood on his hands from this past murderous season.

I don't see how we can bring Brown back into that lockerroom. Outside of a minor tweak here and there the roster will pretty much be the same. Brown has lost more than half the players during the season. And now with this circus going on in the summer (certainly the players know whats going on) the organization has stripped Brown of the little bit of power he might have had by humiliating him (most of it well deserved). It almost seems as if those 8-9 players are vendicated for complaining about Brown during the exit interviews and now Btown is being punished because of it. Those 8-9 players now know they can go over Browns head (to Isiah) and Brown will be punished, like he's being punished now.

Bringing Brown back can create uncomfortable turmoil next season. I just wish the organization would severe ties with Brown already so we can all move on.....



[Edited by - Bigbeast on 06-15-2006 12:58 PM]
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
nyk4ever
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6/15/2006  1:01 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by nyk4ever:


So everything that is said in the press should be taken as fact? Just like when Isiah goes back on forth about whether this team is rebuilding it or not? Face it, your favorite GM is a loose cannon who will do whatever it takes to keep his job. If you can't see that Isiah has coveted and acquired the SAME KIND of player since he got here then your blind. Marbury, Crawford, Curry, Jalen, Francis. Wow, real tough to see there.

The fact that Larry Brown has never liked coaching players like this and Isiah loves these types of players seems to put the issue to rest for me on who pulled the trigger. Anyone who is willing to look at things openly instead of rely on a bunch of stupid quotes during a press conference for a player just brought to thet ballclub will see the trail of breadcrumbs that leads to Isiah.

"Believe everything you read in the press"??!??!? We're talking about DIRECT quotes from Larry Brown.

How about this quote from Isiah Thomas, taken July 19 of last year.
“Everyone says if you try to rebuild in New York it will be a death sentence. Everyone says that except the fans, the ones who pay and come to Madison Square Garden.”“Everyone says if you try to rebuild in New York it will be a death sentence. Everyone says that except the fans, the ones who pay and come to Madison Square Garden.”

People can knock and rip into Isiah all they want but at least he’s not living in Fantasyland like previous regimes. The reality is the Knicks are a team in transition that has been forced to adjust their course with the injury to Allan Houston, who likely will be an ex-Knick.

The Knicks are expected to field a payroll of $125 million, which is 22 more than last season. But at least they don’t want to wait it out, they want be proactive about dealing with the problem and at the same time get younger.

Yeah he really did rebuild that team. He tried to rebuild it so much that he went out and got 2 highpriced veterans instead holding onto a younger player in Ariza. Instead he goes out and acquires more contracts.

See, people say things in the press when they HAVE to put a spin on something.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 06-15-2006 1:02 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Rich
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6/15/2006  1:35 PM
Larry is a duplicitous jerk. He cares more about himself than the franchise.
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